We Didn't Playtest This | Game over, everyone loses

[Magua]

danny unpack your reason for your vote on drixx cos it is giving me whiplash

Oh and congrats on outting on who's bp to who well done a++

[copper223]

Eh, I still don't buy scum drixx. Not especially fond of that line. Especially given that shooting sooner rather than later seems suboptimal.

This is different from your previous stance that you were neutral on him, so you think the mods made a full BP that doesn't know the scumteams and a partial BP that knows 1?

[copper223]

danny unpack your reason for your vote on drixx cos it is giving me whiplash

And sk*

You are being dumb, Dan explicitly claimed to be immune to both scum factions.

[ActionDan]

Drixx came from game w only mafia. Actiondan came from game w mafia And sk. Don't be dumb Jesus h Christ.

If my role in the 13p mini was "you are immune to mafia kills" then Drixx should be immune to everything by that logic if his role was "you are immune to kills" in his 13p game with only mafia in it.

[Cerberus v666]

Neutral means neutral. I don't buy scum or town on him, I'm probably leaning more town than not on him though. And it doesn't seem unreasonable for the mods to individually make a bulletproof for each of their games. The real takeaway from all this, btw, is that IF both these claims are true, in the likeliest scenario in which both roles would exist, there are *3* scum factions. The one Dan was originally BP from(which was just extended to being bulletproof when they added another scum faction in, it seems), the one Drixx is BP from in that game, and the other scum faction that would have existed in that game, which Drixx isn't BP from.

[Cerberus v666]

I agree with Magua but I think he actually has it reversed. Either way, the end result is the same.

[Cerberus v666]

Also possible both games had a full bulletproof, and they modified one of them in order to prevent there being two fully bulletproof roles in the game.

[LucianRoy]

Also possible both games had a full bulletproof, and they modified one of them in order to prevent there being two fully bulletproof roles in the game.

That's what I've been thinking.

[copper223]

Neutral means neutral. I don't buy scum or town on him, I'm probably leaning more town than not on him though. And it doesn't seem unreasonable for the mods to individually make a bulletproof for each of their games. The real takeaway from all this, btw, is that IF both these claims are true, in the likeliest scenario in which both roles would exist, there are *3* scum factions. The one Dan was originally BP from(which was just extended to being bulletproof when they added another scum faction in, it seems), the one Drixx is BP from in that game, and the other scum faction that would have existed in that game, which Drixx isn't BP from.

It does not seem at all, because Dan claims to be immune to

every

scumfaction, so you can multiply the number of scumteams on Drixx's side as much as you like, I still fail to see why Dan's role was adapted to be a BP for both games, while Drixx was left as a partial BP and, here's the kicker, given information about one particular scumteam, that I have never seen in a BP role PM, I thought it might have been an oversight in this game from the mods but if they took the time to change 1 role pm, I don't see why they wouldn't do the same in the other.

Your definition of neutral is scummy.

[God of Power Outlets]

You know me Drixx. I reserve all judgments. I'm equally suspicious of you both. Same way I'm suspicious of TPTG and Toon. Same way everyone should be suspicious of ChriVi and myself.

A+ posting.

Just gotten to death's "reaction test". I've looked and it reeks of scum that death doesn't really seem to know what or who he was actually looking for in his reaction test. You're supposed to at least have an idea of what sort of reaction you're looking for when you reaction test? Were just you hoping to draw up whatever most suited your needs on the spot?
Don't like Drixx's defenses which seem to be reactionary counterattacks to whoever is attacking him despite any of their prior actions (attacking a mason?), and his claim is somewhat weak. I think there are better options right now though.
TPTG and others voting Drixx: how do you feel about a death/jackel lynch over Drixx?

I've softened on deathfisaro, I think we reached a bit of an understanding a few pages ago. If it's not clear my scumread on him (or Drixx) is not a body of work thing, because A) both scumteams can legitimately scumhunt and don't have to pretend for anything and B) scum can fake townie things. To find scum is to pick out the specific scummy things they put in their posts. I was a bit wrong to frame deathfiasro (and Drixx) of not scumhunting, because that is inherently wrong. I was more framing deathfisaro as being too noncommittal for my liking. I don't know that he has changed this, but I do know he has defended himself in a positive way, so that's something.

Jackel is kinda meh for us. The (for lack of a better term) 'vanilla' tracker claim seems out of place among the 1-way friendly neighborhood, neighborhood cops, night skipping princesses, etc. etc. etc. He certainly doesn't have any content to really say "this guy is town". I don't think he has the content to say 'this guy is scum either'. Worthy of a vig shot, not so worthy of a lynch, if that makes sense.

I think you should consider Drixx. You not only have to look at the SPECIFIC (I caps this for his benefit, this is not a narrative) things I have outlined to indicate scum behavior. You can look at the way he chooses to defend himself from it. He chooses to sling petty insults and discredit what I am saying. He's not scumreading me, so as far as I'm concerned that means he thinks we're confirmed town, yet he's not making the endeavor to change our perception of him or GASP work with us (as we are presumably town). If he were trying to say Toon and I were fakeclaiming scum, that is one thing. But he's not. He's not trying to work with us as a pseudo-trusted town voice, he's telling you that we have this elaborate narrative about his play as if we're making it up, when I have outlined in-thread the specific things that set him to a scumread. Like I said he reacts like scum who is indignant because he got caught for the wrong reasons. I've been gone for a couple of hours, and in that time he continues to try and discredit my points on him by minimizing my case with cries of 'falsehoods'. I've laid out my interpretation of his play. I'm not faking that. He's not trying to convince anyone that he isn't scum, he's trying to convince everyone that we're bad players with a bad case.

To make a long story short, I'd rather some votes converge on Drixx before I even entertain the thought of moving back to deathfisaro, or to consider Jackel. Jackel is a deadline thing, and a low yield one at that. Worthy of a vig shot, not so worthy of a lynch.

[LucianRoy]

@ Cerverus I specifically remember that they said they "fixed" any game-breaking elements. That could potentially be one of them.

[copper223]

why did they leave the information about one scumteam in one but deleted both names from the other?

[Cerberus v666]

Neutral means neutral. I don't buy scum or town on him, I'm probably leaning more town than not on him though. And it doesn't seem unreasonable for the mods to individually make a bulletproof for each of their games. The real takeaway from all this, btw, is that IF both these claims are true, in the likeliest scenario in which both roles would exist, there are *3* scum factions. The one Dan was originally BP from(which was just extended to being bulletproof when they added another scum faction in, it seems), the one Drixx is BP from in that game, and the other scum faction that would have existed in that game, which Drixx isn't BP from.

It does not seem at all, because Dan claims to be immune to

every

scumfaction, so you can multiply the number of scumteams on Drixx's side as much as you like, I still fail to see why Dan's role was adapted to be a BP for both games, while Drixx was left as a partial BP and, here's the kicker, given information about one particular scumteam, that I have never seen in a BP role PM, I thought it might have been an oversight in this game from the mods but if they took the time to change 1 role pm, I don't see why they wouldn't do the same in the other.

Your definition of neutral is scummy.

You're welcome to hold that opinion.

[God of Power Outlets]

Neutral means neutral. I don't buy scum or town on him, I'm probably leaning more town than not on him though. And it doesn't seem unreasonable for the mods to individually make a bulletproof for each of their games. The real takeaway from all this, btw, is that IF both these claims are true, in the likeliest scenario in which both roles would exist, there are *3* scum factions. The one Dan was originally BP from(which was just extended to being bulletproof when they added another scum faction in, it seems), the one Drixx is BP from in that game, and the other scum faction that would have existed in that game, which Drixx isn't BP from.

It does not seem at all, because Dan claims to be immune to

every

scumfaction, so you can multiply the number of scumteams on Drixx's side as much as you like, I still fail to see why Dan's role was adapted to be a BP for both games, while Drixx was left as a partial BP and, here's the kicker, given information about one particular scumteam, that I have never seen in a BP role PM, I thought it might have been an oversight in this game from the mods but if they took the time to change 1 role pm, I don't see why they wouldn't do the same in the other.

Your definition of neutral is scummy.

You're welcome to hold that opinion.

Now you guys are trying to outguess the Mod. Take the two claims out and what do you have with either player. Is Drixx trustworthy? Is Dan?

To be honest I think Drixx is fakeclaiming and it was unfortunate for him when Dan counter claimed of sorts. Why didn't Drixx react more negatively to a player who had nearly the same role as him? He just accepted it and kinda hand waved it a bit. Did he want us diving deeper into the dichotomy of the two claims?

[copper223]

The part about the setup is not an opinion, you are deliberately trying to make it look more complex than it is by adding variables and doing this to defend someone you have claimed all game to have a completely neutral read on, that doesn't make sense to me.

[copper223]

VOTE: Drixx

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

Come on, I wasn't telling you guys to actually give me 7+ pages to work through! (this is why I don't like to join larges...fucking hell, people, I hate writing walls as much as people hate reading them)

I never thought nor said you thought Lucian looked town, Copper223 did (since when I use the pronoun I you don't follow...) but I might as well not have interacted with you guys given the effect it had.

I got what you said the first time, so don't try to confuse things by referring to yourself in the 3rd person.

-There seems to be no real interest in following through with your scumreads, you just give them when you need to because you're starting to get pressured and that's that, you then come back and catch-up generally addressing those addressing you but I don't see special emphasis on the players you were scumreading before, which I would expect if you're trying to figure them out in particular.

I was trying to do that with Lucian, then he claimed and everyone jumped off and now I'm kinda stuck back in Hilariously Unbalanced 1 where I'm trying to figure out where to go next. Sure, there's Vyse and vonflare, but they're either being lynched or vigged. Even if they aren't, and even if I don't like vonflare, I'm kinda starting to feel like it's an easy wagon.

- The scumreads you have given this game I have seen as opportunistic, both in the sense that you were riding a forming wagon and that the players could be safely called scummy without much of a backlash, and if we follow the claims they are likely incorrect.

Circumstancial at best, though I can't really argue against the point.

It's possible it's a coincidence and we arrived at the same conclusion, the probability that it's not adds to how scummy your slot is overall

So your insinuation is that I'm piggybacking off your reads?

oh yeah I forgot this post! I think I got distracted by something shiny.

Well, thanks for remind everyone about it!

And hi, friend!

VOTE: death

Sure you don't want Vyse?

Idgaf. I still want him shot even if he's conf-town. He's fucking stupid and playing anti-town for trying to draw out claims.

*Marquis is a claimed neighbor daycop*

*plays to his role via asking for neighbor claims*

How is this scummy?

and yes I can vouch for ivy looking horrifyingly scummy cos I lynched him on d1 and he flipped sane cop lol.

Well, that wasn't

exactly

what I was referring to, but okay.

@Mollie
It's your bad play to leave them alive based on how good or bad you think they will be later on, it's hard enough trying to lynch scum without playing favourites so there is no way I am changing my play based on this kind of reccomendation, now if it happens that you don't agree with my case nor does most of town including Lucian, I end up having to compromise and someone else gets shot, that's life.

So we should just throw out the possibility that some people just cannot work well in the early game because they might be scum?

ivy is also 1 who takes a while to get her head in the game I think

To elaborate a little, I think that Days 2 and 3 (and maybe 4), if they're not sprawlingly large with posts, are my better points because I have flip info to work with along with everything else. Day 1's the hardest because I just have to go off what I think (which isn't the best thing for me), and past those days it can be hard to parse through what's been said to come to the right conclusion (especially if it's LyLo/MyLo).

HOW COULD YOU SHEEP HIM MOLLIE?
VOTE: Jackel
I'll make better posts later after getting educated once again with fucking launguages I'll forget in five years.

No no no, not Jackel. You're going nowhere on Jackel.

Considering the circumstances around Toon's claim, I can believe it. Can we go back to someone like vonflare or something now? (or Ozgin, or Jackel).

"I'm just gonna blame the player for my reads and take no responsibility lalalalala. I'm just gonna demand the other Mason partner out himself and then pretend to get upset when he does hahahahahaha"

Um...that's not what he said at all?

Bulbasaur Commonwealth seems overly pushy of their sum-read on me, but people have repeatedly said that's a town dumbtell.

I don't like you, and honestly don't really like or believe your claim. I will lay off if you prove your claim and successfully dayvig, but not before that point.

Then again, I could kill Vyse, and get a super strong read on copper. If I do that, then we might have clearer lynch target, or a voice of reason when we need to come to a consensus on our votes.

This would've been fine if it was five days ago. Crunch time is coming, so I'd honestly rather not derail one of our current lynch trajectories unless we're going to pile on one of the others on Vyse's flip.

Magua not reading my posts makes me sad, but I understand.

unvote

(Because I apparently forgot to move it before)

Onto page 60.

-Ivysaur

[Cerberus v666]

Again, I've got a fairly long history with Drixx outside of here...and he isn't *sounding* scum to me. He might be to the rest of you, but he doesn't sound that way to me. I understand the reasoning behind viewing him as scummy, but they're misunderstandings of the sort I've seen directed at him before as town.

The factional reveal is something I have absolutely no opinion on. It's a game with some unusual roles, and thus it's not outside the realm of possibility.

[God of Power Outlets]

The part about the setup is not an opinion, you are deliberately trying to make it look more complex than it is by adding variables and doing this to defend someone you have claimed all game to have a completely neutral read on, that doesn't make sense to me.

Was this at me?

[Titus]

I don't want anyone shot. I feel that's a terrible idea. If you think he's scum, lynch him. If he's scum, we trigger him anyway. If he's town, he'll have the game state to figure it out.

Also, a lot of these posts assume multiball. That's not an assumption that should be made prior to flips. We have two 13 player games. Thirteen players usually have 3-4 scum.

Given the total lack of analysis based on behavior, I want to lynch someone who is posting a lot of setup spec but no behavior talk.

[copper223]

@Bulbasaur
You are too disconnected from the game or faking to be, catch-up with us and ask me what you want to ask if those questions are still relevant.

[copper223]

@Titus
Multiball is not assumed, it's given by the mods

[copper223]

The part about the setup is not an opinion, you are deliberately trying to make it look more complex than it is by adding variables and doing this to defend someone you have claimed all game to have a completely neutral read on, that doesn't make sense to me.

Was this at me?

Cerberus.

[Cerberus v666]

@TPTG: It's probably aimed at me. Doing as you said, and boiling it down to trustworthy vs. not. I see insufficient cause to *distrust* either Dan or Drixx.

[God of Power Outlets]

"I'm just gonna blame the player for my reads and take no responsibility lalalalala. I'm just gonna demand the other Mason partner out himself and then pretend to get upset when he does hahahahahaha"

Um...that's not what he said at all?

Disagree. He was one of the player's really adamant about getting our Mason partner to out themselves. When Toon finally had to, to save himself from the presumed vig shot, Drixx came up with an attack on Toon for how he played the whole situation. Why does he need to attack Toon for that? To rub salt in the wound? He's not trying to paint us as scum fakeclaiming Masons, so what does that accomplish other than to try to swing his weight around and call another player terrible? Don't even try to tell me that was a valid line of questioning from him...