We Didn't Playtest This | Game over, everyone loses

[God of Power Outlets]

Nah if you're town then you hurt the team by allowing yourself to be lynched. Fight for the counterwagon. Fight till the death.

[Titus]

Nah if you're town then you hurt the team by allowing yourself to be lynched. Fight for the counterwagon. Fight till the death.

I like you as a person but I don't know your alignment. That's how I think as well.

[Drixx]

I respectfully disagree. A realistic assessment of my utility to town puts my utility strictly in the negative at this point. There's no way that the smokescreen kicked up by the continued discussion about me is just going to vanish. It's too useful to scum. Scum teams also are going to know I'm not a member of their team, so on top of the utility they gain by having me around as a distraction, they will also realize my claim is almost certainly true, and a kill attempt on me has a decent chance of failing. Ergo, my role isn't likely to provide positive town utility; however, scum can take advantage of the fact that town really can't ever be sure about me as an easy distraction.

I've played this game for a lot of years, and I've never found a way out of this particular box. I don't end up in this box very often (where I rub enough people the wrong way that I get hard scum read when I'm not), but it has happened on occasion, and I've never figured out a way to get successfully clear of it. I've never seen anyone else do so either, for what it's worth. I'm objectively and rationally judging that I have more value dead and flipped to my alignment than I expect to have if I remain alive.

Don't get me wrong ... I'd prefer to stay alive. I have a lot of learning to do on this site and it's a lot harder to learn by passively reading a game. Playing and experimenting is how I learn best. I value my wincon above that though. Barring some unfortunate event, I've still got decades ahead of me to play forum mafia

[copper223]

Drixx seems town to me in his latest posts, he doesn't give up easily as scum, we played a game where he replaced in a heavily scumread slot and he proceeded to write essays instead of posts so that nobody could parse all he said and most of the rest of town just gave up on reading him out of sheer lazyness, he could be pulling a gambit as well but I once commented we are not that different as players and I would find another way to get out of this as usually giving up means getting lynched.

Setup spec is just messing my reads up, enough of that.

VOTE: Vysepresident

[God of Power Outlets]

Nah if you're town then you hurt the team by allowing yourself to be lynched. Fight for the counterwagon. Fight till the death.

I like you as a person but I don't know your alignment. That's how I think as well.

Psh, it's T-Bone you don't like me that much

Drixx, I've fallen on my sword as town too and forced my lynch before LyLo, but not on Day 1 in a 26 player game. If you are town and make it easy for yourself to get lynched on Day 1 you do a disservice, because now you've taken the responsibility of your lynch away from the player base. And you should never do that. Make the scum who decide to vote you take responsibility. Even the lurkers who might pile onto a wagon you are actively fighting have to take a stand, and that's they get caught.

Besides if you're scum you can also 'stick it' to the other scumteam. I'm down to help you do that instead.

Copper, on the flipside I've also fallen on my sword to gain town credit, and it's effective (i have some feels for Drixx here). So don't be quick to dismiss either. It's a common tactic on this site.

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

So yes, everyone is some sort of PR (apart from scum of course).

Uh-huh.

I presume that we're awaiting a mod response on this?

Why is there talk of a vig shot with no vig claimed?

...Titus. How the fuck do you miss Lucian. The

VIG/VENGEFUL?!

Okay, I just saw the vig claim.

@Lucian: Is it a 1-shot vig or 1-shot overall? i.e. Would vigging someone today take away your venge kill or is that a permanent fixture in your role? Please get me your answer as soon as possible. Ivy will either give it to me in the PT, or I'll see it when I'm back this way again. My 3 picks are Drixx, Vonflare, and Brantz.

Now if you excuse me, I promised the rest of the commonwealth an avatar full of monocles.

-Bulbasaur

'BOUT TIME YOU GAVE ME THAT GODDAMN MONOCLE!

He said it was 1 shot total. He can either use the shot before death or up to 48h after death. That's my understanding at least.

It's both.

No, TPTG, no. Well, on Drixx. Thanks to Mollie reminding me about that reaction test and his posts around there, I'm more amenable to that one. I don't like how his posts sounds, but I'm fine with his play. And Drixx pointed out a couple of inconsistencies with your case (such as his claim timing).

Although this roughly looks like a scum post. but hey I'm rusty at these things.

It is.

ok what is jackel talking about

is he a tracker, hacker, or cop?

For once I agree with vonflare, and Jackel's sketchy as hell right now.

Oh and congrats on outting on who's bp to who well done a++

Is that to Dan, then? Because Mollie had nothing to do with it.

@Bulbasaur
You are too disconnected from the game or faking to be, catch-up with us and ask me what you want to ask if those questions are still relevant.

Actually, all of that's still relevant. Mainly because the people I asked questions to haven't really posted between my (Ivy's) two posts.

Anyways, I reached myself, so I'll leave this and start with post-begin-catchup posts.

-Ivysaur.

[copper223]

Maybe TPTG but Lucian is a potentially volatile player that Drixx doesn't know so well and inviting a vig shot was unneccessary for the gambit, Drixx could have just gone with the lynch me then if it's good for town, I will not put up resisitence because x and y spiel.

Ultimately this is a gut read from me though so I am not out to convince anyone.

[God of Power Outlets]

Okay...flashwagon on Bulbasaurs? Yes? think about it, I'm a pound some ZZZzzzs into submission.

[Drixx]

The reason I suggest the Vig shot was because there's still enough time in the day to evaluate both wagons on me, people's interactions with me, and it would have the added benefit of giving the scum teams a whole lot of no win choices during the night phase (potentially even worse if the BB night skip is used to skip straight to day 2, forcing scum to keep on playing and potentially slipping). The more confirmed info the town has the better.

That said, I would appreciate advice on how to get out of the box I'm in. If I can stay active and keep contributing to town without being a distraction/smokescreen, then I bring more utility to town alive than dead. Ask Copper for an honest evaluation of whether or not I know what I'm doing in mafia. I think he'll rate me at least average if not above.

[copper223]

Drixx the best advice I can give if my gut-read is good is to stop being reactive and start being proactive, who is scum and why is all that matters.

Definitely someone I'd like to have on my team and a very good player, but like I said to Ivy I am not interested in discriminating based on possible future potential when evaluating alignments.

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

Disagree. He was one of the player's really adamant about getting our Mason partner to out themselves. When Toon finally had to, to save himself from the presumed vig shot, Drixx came up with an attack on Toon for how he played the whole situation. Why does he need to attack Toon for that? To rub salt in the wound? He's not trying to paint us as scum fakeclaiming Masons, so what does that accomplish other than to try to swing his weight around and call another player terrible? Don't even try to tell me that was a valid line of questioning from him...

I'm reading it as "why couldn't you just play like town instead of claiming"? (which we kinda seem to agree on, but just so it's out there). It's not a completely incorrect question, and while it's possible that it wouldn't go very far as a line of questioning I'm not seeing the trouble with him asking it.

Him being frustrated that the possible vig target escaped is likely as well, but I just don't believe it.

Looking at your ISO reveals EXACTLY what I said

Actually...it doesn't.

Drixx hinted at his role when the topic of multi-ball came up. While he may have been "pressured" by Om in the sense that om was asking him about multiball, it wasn't "have multiple votes and people pushing on me". That came afterwards.

Also, the most Drixx did re: Masons was question if kuribo meant neighbors when he said masons (in 837). I could buy that's a possible (if subtle) implication for trying to out masons, but he didn't press you on it at all, nor does he mention masons again until he quotes Toon's claim.

The only point I agree with you on is that his general attitude in response has been more belligerent than necessary at times (especially re: Om), though I don't read it as scum caught for the wrong reasons (not now, anyways).

b)doesn't help you improve your early game so you will always be bad at it.

It's more that I don't really play Mafia all that much compared to back in 2011-2013 so any improvements I may have made have gone out the window, and I'm not likely to play enough now to either make any improvements or make said improvements worthwhile. I'd LIKE to, but yknow, meatworld and crap.

I get the rest, though.

It's possible you did this with Lucian, because you confirmed your scumread on him one page after 2 players, I don't remember the other guy, gave a read on BRantz saying the fact he was still scumreading Lucian despite the vengilante claim was more of a town dumbtell.

I don't remember anyone calling BRants dumbtown for that. I didn't like Lucian before the claim, I don't like Lucian because of the claim, and I don't really like Lucian after the claim. I haven't exactly been paying attention to him as much since the claim, yes, but from what I recall it just feels like he's been sitting on trying to figure out who to shoot more than anything else.

Why do you need to know this?

Because I'm curious as to how it would work. It'd be neat if you can catch a possible redirect/bus drive, as that'd be helpful so long as there's enough context that we can actually draw conclusions off of it.

I meant to add something along the lines of "answering is optional" but I forgot. I don't think it's really worth not answering, though.

He wants to get investigated by Marquis. Why? Either he's town or he's a miller that will return town when investigated. I think the latter is a bit of a stretch and unless backed up by scummy behaviors of Cerberus independent of neighbourhood business.

Millers turn up scum to cops, so he can't possibly try to use that. If he's a Godfather, then maybe, but I'm not sure that's even in this game. If he is, then I could see the gambit, but I don't really think there is a Godfather, so there's pretty much a 5-10% chance he's gambiting for a clear.

I wasn't willing to go through who-knows-how-many-pages to find Jackel's post to get his ISO.

Look at the bottom of the page, see where it gives a list of names next to [+] and a button that says "Go".

The rest is

magic

.

I will refuse to vote Drixx because I now think he's town. I will also prevent Bulb from keeping a vote on him.

Okay...flashwagon on Bulbasaurs? Yes? think about it, I'm a pound some ZZZzzzs into submission.

Yeahno. Go pester someone else, T-Bone.

Vote: Vyse

Drixx is town, I'm okay with Dan and copper; Lucian, Vyse, and probly Death are scum, and probably Jackel. Still kinda feel Vonflare-scum, but eh.

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

Actually, hold on.

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

Vote: Jackel

Thought the wagon dismantled more than it did.

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

'kay, I'm out for the night. Try not to make it to page 80 before I come back?

[Titus]

The reason I suggest the Vig shot was because there's still enough time in the day to evaluate both wagons on me, people's interactions with me, and it would have the added benefit of giving the scum teams a whole lot of no win choices during the night phase (potentially even worse if the BB night skip is used to skip straight to day 2, forcing scum to keep on playing and potentially slipping). The more confirmed info the town has the better.

That said, I would appreciate advice on how to get out of the box I'm in. If I can stay active and keep contributing to town without being a distraction/smokescreen, then I bring more utility to town alive than dead. Ask Copper for an honest evaluation of whether or not I know what I'm doing in mafia. I think he'll rate me at least average if not above.

Wagon analysis is best done on day 3 - 4 when there's actual shit to get into.

Barring tri scum or scum versus same faction scum wagons, VCA is pretty helpful IMO.

If you want advice, just direct us. Worst case, you die and we are left with guidance. Stop worrying the fuck about survival. That looks scummy as fuck.

[Drixx]

@Bulbasaur - I think part of why I read as belligerent is a decision I made after some nastiness got dumped on me in a newbie game. I didn't provoke it in any way and a long time member of this forum threw homophobic slurs and said he hoped I got prison raped at me, among some other nasty stuff and an overall combative playstayle full of profanity. I decided that if people were going to be obscene/profane, I would respond to that aggressively. I figure people who play that way unprovoked are more likely to respond to someone giving them the same thing back. I don't believe that I initiated any nastiness with anyone. I only responded when it was sent at me first, and even then I generally wait for it to happen a few times.

If being belligerent is one of the reasons I'm being scum read, then I'll be happy to go back to my calm and rational self. Despite the tendency to see emotion in text, I don't get aggressive or profane out of emotion. I learned a very long time ago that emotion just hurts you in Mafia. On the rare occasion when someone hits on something that actually inspires negative emotion, I go away and do something else before responding. One thing you can consistently rely upon from me any time you see me or play with me is that I'm going to be playing with rational reasons for everything I do. They aren't always readily apparent, but I don't make votes or pushes or accusations or cases lightly, nor without some reasoning.

I'm by no means a perfect rationalist nor am I probably in the top 10% of mafia players, but I'm always learning and figuring out new ways to play effectively.

I'll stop talking about myself now before OM gets mad. {Wink}

[Marquis]

VOTE: bulba

[copper223]

Speaking of Om, I did not forget your promise to come back with your usual town game after a needed brake, who are you currently scumreading?

[ActionDan]

will post tomorrow. I still don't understand why Marquis won't paraphase results.

[Marquis]

how i feel about this game:



good night

[Narninian]

I'm really trying to figure out why we're wagoning a claimed investigator day 1;
I guess that its not an automatic get out of jail free card if they are scummy, but it should at least strongly deter a lynch.
Can somebody maybe lay out the case? I see some detached/lazy posting but he's certainly not the only one it applies to and investigator claim is pretty huge.

[Om of the Nom]

Speaking of Om, I did not forget your promise to come back with your usual town game after a needed brake, who are you currently scumreading?

im planning on re-entering my brain in general on d2 bc everything is going too fast for me to actually care right now so at the moment im a delegated sheep to whoever im townreading
im on call if u want opinions on specific things, however

[Cerberus v666]

Hmm. You know, Narninian, you've posted so little that I kinda wish this wagon was on you, but I don't actually see anything scummy seeming in your play. That miffs me a bit.

[Cerberus v666]

Om: How do you know who you're townreading if you're not really following the game? Are you saying that nothing that's happened/been said since you went silent has changed your opinion on any of the players?

[Om of the Nom]

well
ive been townreading molla marquis and tptg all game
and nothing they've said that ive skimmed has changed my opinion
so idc