We Didn't Playtest This | Game over, everyone loses

[Marquis]

feeling om could be scum in the same way mollie could be scum

eh i'll think it over overnight

[Pirate Ika]

feeling om could be scum in the same way mollie could be scum

eh i'll think it over overnight

or mebbe you are

cos your push on us is weird your push on om came out of nowhere and you are doing your very best to derail all lynches which sort of looks like you are trying to spread confusion which *gasp* points to more of a scum mindset than a townie 1!

also this is you wrt to death's obv self-consciousness in the post that bro pointed out and the lackluster performance emanating from that slot:

[VysePresident]

@Pika - I'll bet on OmScum before MarquisScum, for what my opinion's worth. I'll bet on BRantz before them both.

Chat with me about BRantz, please. Why is he supposed to be mislynch bait?

[Marquis]

mollie i'm a waste of your time whether you're scum or not. for once, i'm the one with more control here and i'm using it

[VysePresident]

P-Edit - @Marquis - I'd appreciate you pinging me with your thoughts on BRantz, while you're looking stuff over. (P-Edit 2 - Made another post talking to the pirates, in hopes of catching them while they seem to be online.)

Convenient BRantz ISO link for general reference.

-His first three posts are just jokes - I don't mind joking around, but there was stuff to be talking about at that point, and my take on BRantz is not that of an overly cautious player. I expect him to be engaging with the various wagons & such.

Stuff such as what, molla's miller claim? It was the second page of the actual day. Also how does me joking around follow to being overly cautious? Will get to your point about wagons with point 2 in more detail, but that is just crap reasoning and you know it.

That's partly a communication mistake on my part. I meant that your first

three

five posts are just joking around, and then you kind of hang back while Om's chatting about Drixx & Lucian. It's the second part that bugs me. I kinda expected at least one of those to catch your attention, particularly Lucian's reluctance to vote.

This alone is not a scumread. It's a mild off-note that had me looking at you early on.

When you start engaging with the game, it's to jump on Ice for 'outing information'. You then declare it obviously scummy (which really reminds me of a mutual acquaintance) for 'outing information', (not exactly the same, but similar to FuDuzn.) and then back off when people start hitting back at you for it, saying that you got the information you were looking for.

So, what exactly was that information?

What I'm seeing feels more like an overreaction to Marquis/Ice's request, and you're backing down when pressured. That's a red flag on its own, but the real point of interest for me is that I don't see Overzealous Mode BRantz again. You fight back a bit, but you back down as soon as you get the chance, and I don't see much of interest from you after that point. There's some comments that don't really tell me much about what your thinking, some setup spec related thoughts & questions that don't really go anywhere.

The first thing of actual interest is this -

This is not the Drixx I would rxpect, especially given his reaction in a recent game when another player did exactly this. Will wait to see if we get reads from him before deciding anything else there.

The last few pages have been... Interesting... to say the least.

Kinda meh on this one.

Was there anything of interest to you besides Kuribo's meltdown?

Posting that I'll be posting tonight to pressure myself into posting tonight instead of falling asleep again.

I am anxiously awaiting this post from you Vyse. Hopefully it will let me know whether you are scum calling me scum or town calling me scum and either way we should be able to move forward.

UNVOTE:

Trouser is probably town (at least I am inclined to put Kuribo's meltdown in that category).
Molla is probably town.
Vonflare is something...
Om might be town.
Don't know what to think of pika yet.
Oranje is probably town.
Boon is leaning town.
Fairly null on ActionDan.
Lucian seems to be trying hard to sit on the sidelines, might be scum (for an example of this see 568).
I was probably wrong about ice, he is probably town.
My read on Copper keeps waffling, but I tend to lean town on him because we have similar thought processes about things (may be bias).
Drixx's most recent posts are the drixx I expected when a case showed up, not the yell at everyone about how bad the case is and how they should feel bad, so null for now but looking more townish.
Death is probably town.
Everyone else is still null

@pika (mollie specifically): Are you posting almost all of the hydra posts so far?

@Dan: Why do you keep avoiding engaging in conversation with me? It is all well and good for you to sit there and throw accusations at me, but at some point you are going to have to talk to me about them.

VOTE: Vonflare

Walk me through these reads, please. What's causing (or caused) you to waffle on Copper?

What do you mean by calling Vonflare 'something', and then voting him?

Why's Death Town?

Looking forward to your read on me.

This is a pretty bland list that basically just sheeps popular opinion. :/

I mean, yeah, you're right. I'm definitely in a position to understand having trouble diving into the game in the way I'd like. (I may be sticking with smaller games for a while, after this, at least until I have a better handle on my play, and the site in general. 40 pages Day #1 is not a small thing to sort through.)

I still don't like what I'm seeing. I'm not really getting a sense of you sorting through the game or otherwise actively scumhunting. Bad scum hunting, okay. Limited scumhunting, okay. (Heck, I handle larges in bite-sized chunks myself, typically.) I don't think you're a terrible player, but I can see you messing up. That's not what this feels like. It's less scumhunting, and more Scum hunting.

@Commonwealth:

In general I am finding most of the interactions I am seeing people have as town so far,

So what interactions that you've seen do you like? What about the ones you dislike? (either before this post or after it)

By the end of it I really liked the way Marquis/ice's argument with me went. As ridiculous as the whole situation leading up to Kuribo exploding was the interaction led to town feelings, so it was good. I have gotten a lot out of Drixx being wagoned. I think it is important that ActionDan is unwilling to interact with me, and that Lucian is unwilling to take a stand on anything. Deathfisaro vs Om argument felt very town vs town to me. Are there interactions you are particularly interested in? There have been a lot of interesting ones this game so far.

Can you explain these in more depth, please?

Like, I tend to associate easy Townreads with your scumgame. :/

[Marquis]

i've played with brantz once and it was short and lurky on my part

i've been thinking town for the prolonged reaction to my claim - but then again it feels like i'm townreading too many people for having blatantly dumb opinions

tomorrow

[VysePresident]

Also, can people ping me on why I'm supposed to be Townreading Copper? I'm working on the Long List of Doom, if you guys want to wait for that, but I'd kinda like some feedback on this one. (I'd forgotten how much of a pain a single-person analysis can be. It'll get done, but I just want you to know I hate you all, and your little dogs too. )

I'm mildly annoyed* at apparently getting scumread for this one. I've played scum enough times to know that antagonizing the loudest, most trusted voice in the game is not exactly ideal, particularly when you don't have a lot of Towncred to bet against their own. (Heck, I literally lost my first scum game entirely for trying too hard to defend my apathetic buddy, and ending up facing down the entire Town by myself. Ironically, I had some vague idea that by playing to my Town meta, I'd be more likely to get a Townread, as per norm.)

(*Guide to reading the Phlegmatic-Melancholic person known as Vyse - Mildly annoyed = A lot. Moderately annoyed = Kuribo.)

[VysePresident]

'Kay.

Just FYI, here's a BRantz Scumgame, if you want to look at it. (It's also a half-decent Towngame on my part, even if I waffled way too much, and wouldn't have pushed my main suspect without TTH giving me a push.)

He's more active there than here, but the points to take away from it are -

-He Townreads people more easily as Scum than Town.

-He tends to give meh reasons for a read.

-He can push a bad read hard when he wants. (See: His case to lynch DaveAZ on the last day.)

There's probably more, but I'm running out of steam, and I'm half-expecting people not to look at this anyway, despite my hopes.

[VysePresident]

@Orange - So. BRantz? Copper? Thoughts, please?

@Bulbasar - Oh hey! You keep pushing my lynch. (& Von, & Lucian, & Jackel, popular wagon of choice, etc.) Why? Does Bulb really think I'm that dangerous to your team?

@Death - Since when is not defending yourself scummy? I've got limited time & energy, as I've noted at length, and I'm mostly focusing on my reads. This may have been a mistake, in retrospect, but I'm not really used to scumreads hanging around on me after I've shared my reads. It makes me wonder what the heck happened, anyway.

Quick version - Lucian was suspect #1 when I was writing that up. I didn't actually read through his whole ISO or anywhere close, just enough to glance at the tone that was bothering me (and possibly Om), but I can show you other games where I've worked like heck on a read, and not answering you is listed above.)

Also not thrilled with you. That first question wasn't rhetorical. I'd really appreciate an elaboration.

@Boon - Can I get an overview of your reads? Can you walk me through your thought process on Drixx & Vonflare?

@BBMolla - Okay, your Toon vote is dead, and your Orange wagon might as well be. Where are you going to jump? Why? (Correct answer: BRantz (kinda ready to give up on lynching Copper today, but if you want to go for it...))

[VysePresident]

@Orange(Wguerts {Open to Bro, but V/LA n' stuff}) - Hey, have you been talking to Bro much about your reads? I'm curious what the two of you have to say about me in particular.

[VysePresident]

I know BRantz. I can believe a bad call from him like what happened with the Neighbor deal

, but the lack of actual content from him is terrible. He can be mislynch bait, sure, but he's pretty darn involved as a Townie. Believe me, I've tried to mislynch him before & I've seen both his Town & Scum games, and I don't think this is Town BRantz. More on this when I get home from work.

-Instead, he waits until Ice/Marquis claims to be able to Investigate Neighbors & ask for Neighbors to claims as such to jump on something. He then refers to that as "obviously scummy".

This is something I could see him doing as Town.

He derps a bit like that. I cannot see him waiting for such as Town, and then engaging there & only there.

[VysePresident]

P-Edit - @Titus - I'd love to take that Townread, but this is the most pathetic Towngame I've had in ages. Elemental Mafia was better, and I let every frickin' scumread slip by until endgame.

Also this explains why you are scumreading me, the only guy who has been seriously questioning your alignment for a while now, that makes perfect sense...

There's a difference between weak play and scummy play. I.e. I've utterly failed the communications part of the game, and my interactions have been more limited than normal.

Maybe I'm just overestimating you, but you don't seem like somebody who can't tell the difference between the two.

Also, you can't seriously be implying that I'm counter-scumreading you when I was the first one to point down a read. (Heck, I'm pretty sure you've used that read as a point for scumreading me.)

[VysePresident]

@Bro - Oh, by the way, does Penguin still play here? I've kinda been hoping to bump into her at some point, but no luck. :/

[VysePresident]

Spoiler: BRantz

tbone are you...

flirting with me?

okay I know ut is out of town and kuribo works a ton. can you walk me through your unvote on vonny other than you think neverice made a point that for some strange reason that I really can't understand you agree with?

babe, let the third-head tell you something soulful. I'm a bad man, a part of a sexy monster...but I have dreams you know....I sleep even when my other heads do not...I dream....I dream of golden fields of dongs....I dream of this game....A game in which nevermeltice's defense of vonflare as a VI resonated with me....

I think he has a point in saying vonflare is just playing bad and playing bad doesn't equal scum, and upon looking at my Scumrod in the mirror and shouting it down, I realized that there are other scummy players in this game, and they deserve the same tender loving care from the three prongs the stick out from our trousers that we have given vonflare. I'm not saying vonflare is town, I'm saying I've backed off on my read a bit because I can see some points another player is making. We all had a talk in our temple made of stone and dongs, and we have other mutual reads to pursue. I didn't pursue them in that post, because I was phone-posting and unvoting was difficult enough.

Vote: deathfisaro

Come get some TLC from my mighty Scumrod buddy. You're sketchy as fuck, and until you alleviate that, you shall drink from my mighty dong.

My sexy pirates, our other mutual scumreads are Lucian, Soren, and Vyse (death), can you talk to me babe?

I'm not scum.

This is just awful posting.

If one of the neighbors have a PR, then I don't think they should. Even if they're all VTs, I don't really see why they should claim today (other than because of your role, and even then I don't think every potential neighbor should claim).

They don't have to claim their PR. I just want to know if they're a neighbor. And I don't see how them just claiming neighbor makes them any more likely to have another PR in scum's view.

While I wouldn't classify vonflare's contributions as VI (the term is more than a little extreme), I'm very sure he's town. And the wagon just looks... subpar. Ivysaur, half a line of analysis on vonflare there and you vote him over Toon?

I have different skins how did this even happen

lol... oh hi marquis! (I am excited to actually play a game with you since you didn't have time for Persona)

Ika is an oddball. The only time I have seen him get invested in a game was when a wagon formed on him.

Are you subtly suggesting something?

Obviously not. Just telling copper about my experience with ika. I see no reason why we should wagon pika today, and mollies recent posting has me leaning town there.

Not a fan of Lucian's current "should or shouldn't I claim" teasing he is doing.

Soren's posting for the past few pages has been completely awful.

man; that's easy.
Alright.

I'm replacing Narninian: not reading.

Who should I vote for?

BRantz.

Put a vote on him until he gives us those scum-reads.
I really think he was lying about them, given the fact that if they were actually true, he could've given them on the spot.

It doesn't matter. We'll soon see.

If all you wanted was basic reasons this would in fact be true, and I had stated basic reasons for all of them (except von) prior to that. In depth takes more time, which will have to wait again till tomorrow, I got called into work early this afternoon, and need to go to bed now that I am done.

Alright so Lucian, my scum reads.

Vonflare: Von has done litterally nothing to forward the game, most of his posts consist of things like (90,447 and 825) I also really didn't like 728s flippant reaction to a wagon on him. If his posting isn't scummy it is at the very least anti-town.

Soren/replacement: 618 pinged me as off, even if he has been playing mafia for less than a year (which he said) there is literal zero chance he hasn't heard the term hammer before. Then pretty much every post fro 844 to 1007 is just completely awful. I see no town motivation for the way he was playing. Magua has been interesting but makes me feel a little better about this slot.

Lucian: Yes, you claimed, and it is even a confirmable one. I don't think that 100% makes you town (unless scum 1-shot vig is something bastard, then I will withdraw my whole case here). But you have tried so hard to fence sit this game that I am not completely convinced you are town (things like 32, 114, 115, 171 (you never voted chivri), 380, etc.) have me feeling uneasy on you.

These three posts are actually more like what I was expecting from BRantz. I don't think it outweighs the rest, though.

[VysePresident]

Maybe it's just late, but I'm liking my Copper case less. :/

I'll still post my long-promised thoughts regardless, but give me one more night, please.

[VysePresident]

Oh, and I'm an idiot

VOTE: BRantz

[copper223]

@Mollie
How sure are you about Jackel, if I go through the effort of working with you on a CW I want it to be for a good cause.

[copper223]

Narninian with his non committal positions and the safe play approach to everything under the sun is either a third generation money lender or scum by the way.

[Narninian]

Narninian with his non committal positions and the safe play approach to everything under the sun is either a third generation money lender or scum by the way.

fair enough; I should vote. Looking through the jackel wagon to find somebody to vote for.

[copper223]

That's not a good approach in my opinion, if you look for something scummy to begin with you are more likely to find it, if like Mollie you don't find Jackel scummy work on a counterwagon, who else is pinging you now?

[Narninian]

the thing I'm finding scummy is wagoning Jackel after he claimed investigator

[BRantz]

So Vyse your complaint about me is both that I wasn't involved enough in the early stuff on day one and that I didn't tunnel hard enough during that same period? Yeah... okay. Let me know when you have something worthwhile to talk about. Also if we are going to talk about town games vs scum games I don't remember your town one being nearly thus tunnelly.

Mod I am v/LA this weekend while at a family friend's wedding.

[Titus]

VLA this weekend. Birthday

[deathfisaro]

the thing I'm finding scummy is wagoning Jackel after he claimed investigator

Nuh uh. Jackel was pushed first, he wasn't voted because the main idea was vigging him instead of lynching him. Then he claimed tracker and appealed he wanted to make it to D2.
Either nobody has ever played with Jackel, or they have but don't see Jackel's typical towngame here to vouch for his possible innocence.
I count about 6 people beside me on Jackel wagon, are you saying I'm on a wagon with every single member of both scum factions? Isn't that a bit of a stretch.

[Oranje Crush]

Om what the heck is this rubbish?
Jackal too, it's a 26 person game. 5 pages per 12 hours isn't suprising. If you're not going to deal with it and read (something that takes max an hour depending on how far back you are) please replace out. Town shouldn't ever go I don't card, espcially when there are "too many posts". More posts means more info an more chance to catch scum.