We Didn't Playtest This | Game over, everyone loses

[Jackel98]

Well, I don't want to die because I'm the only person I know is town. It seems that people have some pretty good cases against Drixx, as well.

[Drixx]

ActionDan ... you seriously need to spend some time on the introductory methods at lesswrong.com. I mean this in the least offensive possible way. Your logical reasoning for why my Role PM has to conform at all to whatever your Role PM says is completely blown up by the basic premise of this game. You are pushing a lynch on me because my similar role ability to your claimed role ability doesn't seem to be worded the way you expect (even though I've been very strictly guarded about what I'll say so as to preserve some utility value), and you don't seem to have even done the most basic logical inquiry into the possible reasons this might be so.

What is even worse than this super easily predictable fail on your part is that you're going to look ridiculously scummy in hindsight.

It's a shame I blundered into some mistake that made people scum read me this game, because I was fairly excited when I got my Role PM. I had planned to play aggro townie and get myself established as town before making my partial claim to spook the anti-town killers into being worried they would waste a kill targeting me, and hopefully bring some really solid utility to the town. Cerberus can attest to this: This game has already come within 50 votes of passing the all time record for posts in an entire game at the place where He and I first played forum mafia and came from. I'm not sure how people manage to keep up with the firehose of posts and keep track of everything. My note taking strategy that I've used for years doesn't even come close to adequate for games here. After the game, I could use some advice/pointers/help in that particular area.

[Drixx]

Well, I don't want to die because I'm the only person I know is town. It seems that people have some pretty good cases against Drixx, as well.

This is the most laughably absurd thing I've ever read.

VOTE: Jackel98

[Jackel98]

Is it? I know I'm town, and you're the strong CW.

[LucianRoy]

Don't weekends count as single phases? Or is that only a rule used by some hosts, and not all?

[God of Power Outlets]

Well, you could start with explaining your own thought processes about the scummy things you did rather than fighting back. Fighting back against a case is the fastest way to ensure no one takes you seriously. We've gone over the Toon/Mason thing. So let's back up Drixx. Where do you think you've made the best contribution to scumhunting so far?

[LucianRoy]

*Single days. Pardon me.

[Drixx]

Well, you could start with explaining your own thought processes about the scummy things you did rather than fighting back. Fighting back against a case is the fastest way to ensure no one takes you seriously. We've gone over the Toon/Mason thing. So let's back up Drixx. Where do you think you've made the best contribution to scumhunting so far?

I think now that it's not an ongoing fight in the thread, a review of Om's early play will probably be useful in the light of confirmed info. Om admitted to not having any actual case reasoning against me and then put together a case that consisted almost entirely of criticizing me for answering questions people asked me. There was some ugliness around that time and I backed off instead of pushing. I should have pushed.

Pushing Copper provided some interaction that leads me to view him as town. YMMV.

Pushing Lucian (who keeps sheeping onto voting me) got him to claim. If his claim is truthful, that's possibly a net positive. I'm not so sure I would expect scum to leave him alone though. I have to think that his retributive is less downside potential since he has to do it after dead and can't comment at all after he's dead. Leaving him in game to prove himself with the shot (and have more info to make the shot count) is probably more dangerous. Ultimate utility unknown but it almost certainly impacts scum decision making, which is always good.

Questioning Toon resulted in outing of a complete mason unit (presumably), so that seems solidly in the negative utility column, although at least I don't own that all by myself.

That's a pretty realistic evaluation of results of pressing people. I have some town reads that I'll share if I end up at L-1.

[deathfisaro]

I don't like the Drixx wagon. Om vs Drixx and AD vs Drixx combined, I don't see myself voting Drixx today.

[deathfisaro]

@ copper

I am not super confident on jackal being town I have 3 games completed games with him 2 o which he was a lurkdonothingsack who eventually replaced out. in hilarious2 he was super excited and super invested and I said, methinks jackal likes playing scum more than town but sorting other players to push his lynch on d1 but he was vigged n1 anyways. so meh. I am not committed to moving the wagon off ofhim cos I don't really have the strong meta to support it but I am not seeing anything objectively scummy that I have not seen him do as town. so he is unsure for me. I just don't understand the push on jackal when death is practically announcing that he is scum and I find wguerts the scummiest thing to slither out of a truckstop toilet.

anyways I won't be around tonight commune stuff plus I have a gorgeous man on my sofa and I am only on here now cos he is watching attack on titans which I have already seen twice.

@ mod - not sure f I said this but mollie head is v/la until monday so participation will be low and spotty

Finally, someone who's played with Jackel has spoken up.
I ISO'd Jackel in Hilarious2, and his posts were indeed quite cheerful and full of excitement, I read to the end and found out he was scum in that game.
In this game, his posts resembles that of his Mewbie game where he was town far more than his rainbowbursting Hilarious2.
And also in every game he complained about getting mislynched D1 as town so I'll buy the appeal to emotion and be overly sympathetic. Take your ~10% chance tonight. Moving back to Vyse.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: VysePresident

[VysePresident]

Everyone who's posting really needs to weigh in on BRantz.

I'll take Drixx over Jackel, but neither of them should be today's lynch.

[VysePresident]

@Death - You never did answer my question in 1808 , by the way.

[VysePresident]

I'm seeimg brantz more now vyse, I'll take a deeper look when i have time myself to confirm my thoughts. Copper's town for scum hunting and meta reasons.
Bro's just saying "I think Brantz is scum" and stuff. He has to catch up quite a bit as his work is taking a lot of time. We basically disagree on everything besides copper and TPTG are town.

So Vyse your complaint about me is both that I wasn't involved enough in the early stuff on day one and that I didn't tunnel hard enough during that same period? Yeah... okay. Let me know when you have something worthwhile to talk about. Also if we are going to talk about town games vs scum games I don't remember your town one being nearly thus tunnelly.

Mod I am v/LA this weekend while at a family friend's wedding.

1) I hope you have fun, pal.

2) You really don't remember what happened with FuDuzn? I mean, yeah, it took TTH, but that isn't the norm. I'm quiet all the way up until I turn into a bulldog.

3)No, my complaint is pretty obviously not that. I think you're deliberately sidelining. You don't really have any direction or meaning behind your posts, until now. That's not the BRantz I'm familiar with. I'm starting to think we're doomed to always be opposite alignments.

[copper223]

Let's PL cerberus for being anti-town, how about that?

[copper223]

I am not joining a BRantz wagon while he is on V/LA and his play didn't ping me before so that's off the table for me.

[copper223]

@Mollie
So you think Broseidon and by your own read VI wgeurts stage a convincing read spat in the middle of the thread? No way, Wgeurts is likely town.

We can talk about deathfisaro, I've gone back and re-read the reaction test and that part about the: interesting, how can I not be town? and I can see it as potentially scummy, plus ai really did not like how hard he went on Jackel, it was clear the objective was killing him off rather than giving him a chance to esplain himself and that looks like a pretty mafia mindset, I like your scumgame a lot more if you are scum this time.

[VysePresident]

I am not joining a BRantz wagon while he is on V/LA and his play didn't ping me before so that's off the table for me.

Is this your thoughts after reading his ISO? Or in general?

[God of Power Outlets]

Unvote

Don't want to vote Drixx, the point about wagoning investigative roles resonates with me, along with the argument that one game could very well have more standard roles, makes me question voting Jackel.

ActionDan: So the distrust of Drixxs claim for you comes from the decision to say the themed name of who he's BP to, rather than the mechanical name?

Oh, to answer your question, I'm torn between you and Marquis. It feels like the discussion is being almost entirely driven by you, and that always makes me feel suspicious. Plus, given the large amount of conversation you've given us, a flip on either of you would tell us a lot. But I don't see much scummy in the play of either of you, other than my remaining dislike for the way Marquis originally phrased the questionabout neighbors. In the realm of reasonable lynches...boon? But I'm not especially fond of that, its really just off fluffy feeling posts iirc.

Uhhh no, this is a problem. You don't want to wagon investigative roles....but you want to lynch Marquis who has claimed an investigative role. This left a sour taste in Kuribo's mouth (as I didn't catch it), and with the amount of golden dongs he regularly consumes leaving a bad taste in his mouth is hard to do.

[VysePresident]

Catch you guys tonight.

[Titus]

VLA until deadline bc my birthday

[copper223]

I have not reviewed his ISO since the Jackel claim, so up to that point, I did read through your case and his reply, I did not find anything that made me jump up and say one of you is scum in there, so that did not change my previous perception of you two; but it's also a general statement about deadline wagons on afk players.

I think you pressing your case on him like you are is either a good beauty wagon you know will not go through or an indicator that my read on you was wrong.

[Oranje Crush]

UNVOTE: Jackal
I'm really tired but I'm saying this:
This is town flail. Only this twisted hopeless logic cpuld come from town.
*Crashes and falls asleep*

[Marquis]

what was vyse's claim? i'm starting to agree with the above, and the idea of a drixx lynch is still gross

[Marquis]

VOTE: brantz

i'm also fine with this. making it more official now

[Cerberus v666]

Let's PL cerberus for being anti-town, how about that?

Hmm. Anti-town?

Unvote

Don't want to vote Drixx, the point about wagoning investigative roles resonates with me, along with the argument that one game could very well have more standard roles, makes me question voting Jackel.

ActionDan: So the distrust of Drixxs claim for you comes from the decision to say the themed name of who he's BP to, rather than the mechanical name?

Oh, to answer your question, I'm torn between you and Marquis. It feels like the discussion is being almost entirely driven by you, and that always makes me feel suspicious. Plus, given the large amount of conversation you've given us, a flip on either of you would tell us a lot. But I don't see much scummy in the play of either of you, other than my remaining dislike for the way Marquis originally phrased the questionabout neighbors. In the realm of reasonable lynches...boon? But I'm not especially fond of that, its really just off fluffy feeling posts iirc.

Uhhh no, this is a problem. You don't want to wagon investigative roles....but you want to lynch Marquis who has claimed an investigative role. This left a sour taste in Kuribo's mouth (as I didn't catch it), and with the amount of golden dongs he regularly consumes leaving a bad taste in his mouth is hard to do.

Point taken. It does seem internally inconsistent doesn't it? Marquis isn't a great option in retrospect for that reason.