Mini 1643: World of Mafiacraft (End)

[elusive]

I avoid going to Mods in general, ika. I don't respect authority unless it's earned and that takes time to develop. It might be a personal issue.

That's the thing though, a player may think what they're saying is not offensive but a player can find it to be offensive. Such as pet names. What then? Who does the Mod protect - the player who is offended or the player who is playing a game that is not like other games? I mean most competitive games can have some trash talking but mafia is almost engineered towards it.

I guess its very different from Mod to Mod and that's how you figure out who's games to in for and who to avoid. There's plenty of both, games and players.

[ika]

1) I avoid going to Mods in general, ika. I don't respect authority unless it's earned and that takes time to develop. It might be a personal issue.

2) That's the thing though, a player may think what they're saying is not offensive but a player can find it to be offensive. Such as pet names. What then? Who does the Mod protect - the player who is offended or the player who is playing a game that is not like other games? I mean most competitive games can have some trash talking but mafia is almost engineered towards it.

I guess its very different from Mod to Mod and that's how you figure out who's games to in for and who to avoid. There's plenty of both, games and players.

1) and im going to tell you now that you will have to set aside your personal issue sometimes, i fully understand that kind of setting but in the end, you have to accept that even if you dont agree with the decision or what they are doing. you have o do one of the following:

A) accept it and move on
B) talk to the mod itself and try to come to an understanding (or talk to backup to get a second opinion)
C) take it to higher authority (listmods, but really in extreme cases)
D) replace out (what you did but dont recomend)

2) thats where the mod is more or less infallible. mods sshould take an objective viewpoint and in the end the decision they made will end up favoring one side or the other. its catch 22 really where (using the PM/ABR case) if KJ sided with PM and said she did nothing wrong (and i dont think she did IMO) it looks like its favoring her. however if KJ took action against PM it shows favoritism to ABR. in the end the corse of action is going to look biased one way or another

When a mod sees both sides of an argument they can make a better call. the modkill was as titus already said, for OGC message.

[shos]

Buttom line, what did ABR tell mollie?
I was wondering if it is fair that I get a cobftown read on her because well, town cant REALLY spoil the game too muvh for scum, so...but I ignored it and forgot about it anyway.

[shos]

Also it appears mollie was scum, TT, lol. *smacks self*

[elusive]

Well, when I saw ABR modkill I thought he must have done something heinous and automatically thought mollie was a victim which as it turns out isn't the case. Therefore, the dissonance in modkilling one and not the other especially if the message itself compromised reads and also as someone else pointed out skewed town view of players and their alignments.

Lol, ika in RL authority is a lot nicer to me except in one particular case so maybe I'm spoiled.

Anyway, ika and Titus - I was right about kiwieagle being a scum and even tunneled him a bit but I couldn't get town to listen. How do I make it happen?

[shos]

Well, being right is not enough, you have to actively sway the town towards what you think. Make cases, explain the motivation, etc etc. You've not posted alot in this game iirc, and if you want your voice to lead town, it has to be heard, and a lot.

[killerjester]

elusive I didn't even threaten to modkill you. I explained the site's zero tolerance policy on outside-game communication and told you if it happened a second time I'd replace your slot.

Also contrary to popular belief, I don't enjoy being the asshole.

I don't like making modkills and I hope I will never have to do so again. The whole fucking mess kept me up most of the night because it

really was

a message sent with the best intentions and I knew he only made it because he was put in a bad position by mollie's stubborn attitude with her pet nicknames. But the rules are pretty clear, and reiterated quite a few times.

[The Site Rules] stress, "Do not talk outside the game thread about an ongoing game except where explicitly allowed to do so by your role/moderator," and, "All disputes regarding an ongoing game should be taken to the moderator of the game by PM." [The Thread Dedicated to Ongoing Game Discussion] illustrates there aren't

any

exceptions to the rule. Like at all. Just don't do it. Furthermore, [My Rules] remind you, "6. During the day and twilight, surviving players may only discuss this game in this thread. All other communication with other players is prohibited," and there was a public warning during Day 1 about it as well after the elusive incident.

[killerjester]

So seriously, stop doing that shit. Nothing good ever came of ongoing game discussion.

[Titus]

Well, when I saw ABR modkill I thought he must have done something heinous and automatically thought mollie was a victim which as it turns out isn't the case. Therefore, the dissonance in modkilling one and not the other especially if the message itself compromised reads and also as someone else pointed out skewed town view of players and their alignments.

Lol, ika in RL authority is a lot nicer to me except in one particular case so maybe I'm spoiled.

Anyway, ika and Titus - I was right about kiwieagle being a scum and even tunneled him a bit but I couldn't get town to listen. How do I make it happen?

Getting players to listen involves building credibility across games and being right frequently. It also helps to speak to players rather than at them. Simple works better than complicated.

Mybest case ever was this slot is active lurking. I got a totally town wagon on scum...then it claimed friendly neighbor.

[elusive]

killerjester, by that order though Nero Cain in post #671, #680, #706 are all about him being in another game with one of those posts being the post he would post in that game. Also, the tone of your post which you're welcome to post here was quite rude.

People on this site do talk about ongoing games at times. Such as above. Either the rule is "Modkill anyone who does so in any way" by which standard Nero Cain broke the rule thrice or "It's okay to talk about being in a game but not particulars" which one of the site rules page states. Either way the "I'm going to modkill you" would probably work better if "Hey, I know you didn't break the rules but this site's rule (link here) are really strict and I don't want you to cross a line inadvertently so this is a friendly reminder." Warning, threats, and ultimatums bring out the worst in some people. Just saying.

I don't know what ABR posted but I agree that PMing the player rather then the Mod or in thread was probably not the best idea. Though his modkill is still sad.

Titus, I did good on my first newbie game here (which ended so I can totally talk about it). Like town won because of me and this other person. It was really cool.

[Titus]

Then feel good about that. We could hydra at some point so you can get used to this site.

Just not normals. They do not permit hydras.

[elusive]

Let me know a game that catches your eye and I'd be up for hydra

[kiwieagle]

I fail to see how post #671, #680, and #706 break any rules?

[elusive]

The pm the mod sent me was for mentioning being in another game. All three posts are from Nero about the newbie game he was is which ws ongoing therefore he broke the supposed rule 3x.

[kiwieagle]

...no


I am pretty sure that was him making a joke of how people were playing in this game.

[MathBlade]

Kudos to Kiwi! You did really good with that CC like whoa. At least I was right about shos for a bit. That was good but wow...*is floored* Great work kiwi.

[shos]

That CC was obvious to me, every scum in lylo would jump into a 1v1, especially when I was scumread..someone said he as going to CC too but then kiwi did it first...

[Nero Cain]

...no


I am pretty sure that was him making a joke of how people were playing in this game.

^
this

[pirate mollie]

oh yaye!

I get clear some shit up!

I called abr "alberta" when we were scum together in curse of the wws!

he didn't have a problem with that. cos we were scum together.

like I called him that i think twice.

where it crossed the line is when he pmed me to complain about his sudden grumpiness at being called a nickname which he had no problem with before.

I had to townread him at that point cos of the cogdis wrt alignment which I knew but it felt uncomfortable cos I knew he was town and wld have pretty much known he was town if I was actually town.

yeah, I cld have stayed in the game and sucked up to abr and let it work to my advantage. but that felt all sorts of wrong. cos it wld have been using a direct communication that other players were not in the know and there was no way I cld post what he said or why I wld have been townreading him cos...it was outside game communication.

this is where meta goes bad regardless of alignment.

I thought abr was joking at first

since I had used the nickname before

and when I realized he was srs I tapped out cos integrity wise it put me in an indefensible position of townreading him. which is unfair to the rest of the playerbase.

I hope this clears a few things up!

also abr sent a pm following his modkill threatening that I wld be very sorry for this!

I am srsly worried.

[shos]

but weren't you scum?

[mastin2]

Any knowledge that would compromise you as town that you gain as scum, compromises you as scum having gained that knowledge.

[elusive]

Nero, because the Mod in thread warning came around your posting of the jokes, I took them seriously. Oops. Still think there was a nicer way to send that first PM so I wouldn't lose my ineffable cool.

Mastin, I'm confused as to what you're saying?

[mastin2]

If knowledge compromises you as town, then it compromises you as scum--town players compromised have to replace out. If a player gains information that would compromise a town player, then if they didn't replace out, that would make them scum, thus, scum must also replace out.

[A Royal Saint]

This. I agree Mastina. It is why I rarely if ever PM a player with an ongoing game unless so fluffy as to not impact the game and sometimes not even then. Thanks for replacing out Mollie

[A Royal Saint]

Sorry this is MathBlade :$ My caching on phone and PC is messed up.