Mini 1637- Pokemon Generation I uPick (Game Over)

[Bert]

I don't see anything wrong (outside of my N1 target), but I haven't double checked

[Flames682]

A mod error occured night one, by the way.

Fuck

[TierShift]

Hi do explain

[Bert]

A mod error occured night one, by the way.

Fuck

Hmm?

[pieguyn]

Look pie, I have no idea why you are attacking me against all logic. Perhaps you are scum hoping their timer will disappear. I really can't think of another reason. I'd expect you to be able to evaluate more objectively otherwise.

because, as far as I can tell, you are blatantly pushing bullshit here

compared to everyone else who more or less looks town one way or another

(I still haven't forgot about my previous response to you btw. I'm just waiting until all the claims get sorted out just in case something does tell me I'm absolutely wrong here.)

And I'm just as confirmed as NM is atm because the only thing that could have prevented the redirect as well as the JK is a scum roleblocker or ascetic which is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY with both of those scum roles already flipped.

YOU. ARE. NOT. 100%. CLEARED

so long as you are not outright clear, role info means fuck all. even if I could not think of any possibilities for how your role would work as a scum role in this situation, I would still be pushing this

PLAY > EVERYTHING ELSE IN A ROLE MADNESS GAME. THIS IS COMMON FUCKING SENSE.

[Bert]

Yeah, I fully agree with bert regarding the amount of scum on the wagon. I do think me and bert and perhaps wisdom get somewhat cleared off of it.

Thoughts?

[pieguyn]

I had a huge scum read on AngryPidegon and a huge town read on Just Sheep Us (Desp+BRO hydra) in Tales of You.

what happens? JSU gets what is practically an inno on AP - and it's not a vanilla cop inno, it's a "my role only works on town" to begin with inno.

my initial reaction? "welp, guess JSU is scum with AP". not thinking AP might have been town, because HIS PLAY WAS THAT FUCKING TERRIBLE, AND YOU ALWAYS GO WITH PLAY OVER ROLE INFO IN ROLE MADNESS.

what was correct? AP was a scum universal godfather and JSU was legitimately town.

why did I reach the wrong conclusion? because THE ROLE INTERACTION THAT MADE AP SCUM AND JSU TOWN WAS NOT OBVIOUS, NOR WAS IT SOMETHING THAT COULD HAVE BEEN FIGURED OUT BEFOREHAND.

THIS IS WHY YOU CLAIMING YOU'RE "CLEAR" BECAUSE "THE ONLY THING THAT COULD HAVE DONE XXX" IS BULLSHIT. YOU CAN NOT ACT LIKE YOU CAN PLAN BASED AROUND SHIT IN ROLE MADNESS, SINCE THERE MIGHT BE ROLE INTERACTIONS THAT ARE OUTRIGHT INVISIBLE FROM A TOWN POV.

(I'm not even calling you scum for pushing this, just saying regardless of what alignment you actually are, you are not. fucking. cleared. my scum read on you continues to come from other reasons.)

[pieguyn]

oh and I failed to mention that there was another step involved - Katsuki was a role delayer who I think delayed JSU, and the only reason it didn't make it obvious who the scum as was because AP was a roleblocker who blocked Katsuki.

this. is. not. something. you. can. plan. around.

[TierShift]

What makes flames more confirmed town than me? I was saying that if you take flames for confirmed town, I should be as well on the same grounds.

[TierShift]

Pie, I don't give a fuck about your previous games. You're being a moron here. The way that you're clearing flames but not me proves that you're biased.

[pieguyn]

on top of being a godfather

sounds ridiculous, right? yeah, it is. this is why you shouldn't fucking "clear" anyone when they're not actually cleared.

p-edit: fuck off. Flames is confirmed because not only did he make a kill when he got blocked, he would have had no way of knowing he got blocked if he was scum and actually made a kill here. this is why he's 100% clear as opposed to you.

[pieguyn]

I haven't even posted yet what I'm seeing in your play. you are _really really really obviously_ pushing bullshit here. want to be absolutely destroyed?

[TierShift]

What are possible explanations for me-scum making a kill that is not you?

[TierShift]

Can you tone down the aggro please? It's really not necessary.

[TierShift]

Bert, @who is 1805?

[TierShift]

Pie, why does boon look town to you?

[TierShift]

By the way, pie, flames could have had a strongman kill.

[pieguyn]

also I wasn't even going anywhere re: Tales of You

the point was YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT CLEARING PEOPLE IN ROLE MADNESS. that was all there was to it. it served as an example to back up a theory point. but you, of course, attempt to ignore it.

p-edit: the moment you can tell me what the town motivation in that question is, I will answer it.

p-edit2: Boon looks town more or less for vettrock interactions D3 - vettrock looked like he was opportunistically bouncing between whichever of {Flames, Boon} was more likely to go through. plus there were some specific things I saw that struck me as unlikely to be scum x scum, ex. the part where vettrock votes Boon and he implodes and starts self voting - usually when scum do that it's in response to a town wagon building up on them in order to shake town off, not a scum partner bussing them.

p-edit3: so you don't think Flames is cleared?

[pieguyn]

Thoughts?

just saw this. don't really have any thoughts on it. I could see it as scum trying to clear themselves after bussing, but I don't think it's unlikely to come from a town POV either. my scum read on TS comes from other reasons.

can you do me a favor and do a quick exercise? TS said (1732) that his "trajectoryless play" was due to the mod apathy. go back and read the pushes he made on D3, *after* we switched mods. ~

[TierShift]

Please just answer my questions you address but don't answer in you pre-edits 1 and 3, I will explain my motivations afterwards. Ftr, no, I have no intention of lynching flames ever.

[pieguyn]

Please just answer my questions you address but don't answer in you pre-edits 1 and 3, I will explain my motivations afterwards. Ftr, no, I have no intention of lynching flames ever.

no

your question is scum motivated. you-scum knows that it's basically impossible for me-town to guess what *actually* happened with your role. ergo, by attempting to make my best guess at it, it allows you to further discredit me, paint me as biased, and act like I have no case on you - while continuing to ignore any play-based reason I have for you being scum.

there is no town motivation for asking it, and so I see no reason to answer it.

(and I think Flames is town via play anyway, without regard to role info. this is....... kind of what I mean when I say play > everything else in role madness.)

[pieguyn]

what I'm saying re: 3rd point is I'm fine with Flames not being outright clear. it doesn't change the fact that I think he's likely town disregarding role info. /shrug

[pieguyn]

no, wait, hold on

Flames is legit clear. based on NM's role strongman would count as an ability - so he wouldn't be able to use both the strongman and the track in the same night.

it's as I said. he would have no way of knowing he was blocked if he made a FF kill last night. this, as opposed to the role itself, is why he's clear.

[Flames682]

pieguyn
Alakazam - Psychic, Kinesis (self-watch)
N1 Psychic -> neighborhood with NM

Seohyun
Poliwhirl - Hypnosis (redirect actions performed by player x onto player y)
N1 pieguyn/BBT -> Egg

[TierShift]

Your latest post on flames is correct.
The previous motivation for my question was this:
I thought that strongman was a possible explanation for flamesscum
I thought ascetic or RB was a possible explanation for tierscum

I was hoping you would admit that strongman was impossible because another scum already had it. I would post in response that that would clear me as well, because both possible explanations would fit the same description as of why you're clearing flames.