↑ LucianRoy wrote:↑ Cerberus v666 wrote:Shush. They can treat me however they like, I take pleasure in bruising the ego's of people by being lynched and showing that they were wrong, and perhaps aren't as good at this as they think they are.
Isn't that taking the game to a personal level?
↑ Ozgin wrote:No nothing in BRantz's ISO looks particularly scummy to me, and in fact:
↑ BRantz wrote:You are the first person to ask me questions about my reads.
There is a lack of scum reads because I feel like a little over half of the players aren't even playing the game yet. I had completely forgotten that Jackal was even in this game, you have people like Vyse and Rubeus who just keep promising content but never deliver. In general I am finding most of the interactions I am seeing people have as town so far, but I don't have nearly enough on a lot of the player base to read them one way or another.
I am adding Soren to my scum reads based solely on his posting over the past few pages.
So I have 3 scum reads at the moment (strongest-weakest) Vonflare-Soren-You (Lucian).
This rings pretty true, this was how I felt when I was pretty active in this game, then this week was a nightmare for me with activity so I just read up now and I feel like I'm in that half of the players who aren't really playing (and I feel bad for it). Even reading, it always seems like 5 or 6 players really show up and are volatile and active and such, but for those 5 or 6 who are over-the top active, there are 5 or 6 (such as myself) who completely fall out for 20 pages (minimum), and then everyone else is in the middle-most activity region.
Anyways, I don't like the wagon on BRantz. I still kinda like the wagon on vonflaire, especially when he said something like, "I'm going on VLA" and then someone else was like, "You should vote Jackal" and von was just like, "K, I'm a mindless sheep going on vacation so here have my vote woo." Sorry I don't have the quote, I just got lazy and didn't feel like tabbing over to von's ISO.
VOTE: vonflaire
↑ Ozgin wrote:EBWOP
↑ Cerberus v666 wrote:I'm willing to vote Brantz, mainly because I don't see anything that makes me think they're especially town, but I also don't see anything especially scum. I'll look back in context possibly, but either wayI'd rather not vote/lynch them while they're VLA.
I also agree with this, but I'm kinda lean town on BRantz as opposed to null either way.It seems that some people just wanna vote BRantz just to get the lynch over with, and yet nobody thinks BRantz is particularly scummy nor particularly town.
Copper wrote:I think you have a good point about looking for a narrative when scumhunting, if a player seems to strive to be consistent for the sake of being consistent I also would find it scum indicative, but I have just been accused of being inconsistent so if you're town you should look at the entirety of my posting and not just on my scumreads of you and Bulbasaur.
) ↑ copper223 wrote:@Vyse
I am not fond of you making a case on me by subtly implying I am doing some of the things you say you look for when scumhunting while at the same time kind of describing how you started this game as your typical town attitude, that seems a bit too convenient but I'll pretend to take this at face value for the sake of the conversation.
Copper wrote:The reason why I scumread Bulbasaur early is based on a previous game I had with Mastin2, where she played SK and tried to mimic her towngame (according to her), it came off the same way to me, their reads this game look stilted and only given when there is pressure on the slot, those are the kind of reads I might come up with as scum so that nobody could accuse me of not scumhunting (because both Drixx and Lucian did things this game that can be objectively thought of as scummy) if I didn't have much interest or time to dedicate to the game. They have done nothing to make me change my mind so I don't see why I would have changed my read on them, in fact I was just proven almost certainly correct on Lucian (I told both them and BBmolla I thought he looked scummy but was town) so if anything my scumread of them should be stronger now because there was no follow up on what I told them and I am also not fond of Ivysaur posting his suspicion on Lucian now that both someone else and I said scumreading Lucian in this situation is more likely to be a town dumbtell, that seems pretty manipulative, do you see a reason for me to have changed my mind on them?
Copper wrote:As for my case on you, I told you where the scumread comes from, I've seen scumpartners do this (like deathfisaro who confirmed it in this game) and I've come from a game where I just caught scum Nachomamma8 doing the exact same thing, I think if you're town and busy it's more likely you will say so once and then get annoyed with players questioning you or you just get replaced, the fact you have so often excused yourself for not posting looks like you apologizing to your scummates for not being as active as you should to help the team or as preemptively defending yourself from the rest of us for something that if true is outside your control so I see no big reason to keep asking forgiveness, the way you characterized it is also not very fair as you have used this excuse a number of times, I did not jump on you the first time you behaved as described.
Copper wrote:As for my D1 town game, what I usually try to do is to get a solid list of townies and potential scumplayers by giving early reads about what I like and what I dislike, usually it has to do with the motivation I most likely believe a player would have for saying what he is saying or it can also be how awkward/confident they appear to be or based on some tell that worked for me in a previous game so I'd use it again to see if it was coincidence or actually applicable, I then base most of my early reads on the reactions I am getting from them, this game I have the advantage of knowing quite a few players and of some them having reliable patterns when playing town so I already started with a better list than usual-
Copper wrote:
I further try to make everyone else commit to giving reads often and then I try to narrow down the list of suspects and push on them until something gives, this is where the bull in the china shop comes in. Later on the game I go back and revist the read evolution of every player and how they voted, I check for how opportunistic they have been, how likely it is they were reading players using information that was not available at the time, I check to see if the evolution of those reads make sense and I also do some VCA.
Well, here's my 0.2 on that, starting with the bad and working out from there.
One of the things that bothered me about your early game was that your reads felt kinda fake. It wasn't just the Mastin vote. (I actually like the idea of pressuring them at that point, but I'm not comfortable with the way you shifted into a strong scumread on them based on that meta 'tell' alone.) You very quickly jump on Om in 193. I actually have really mixed feeling on it, since I can agree with the general content behind it, but the thing is, Om appeared to be a possibility for a mislynch as well, and that's a trick I've pulled as scum before. You also Townread the people you played with before rather easily, but at the same time, stuff like 139 kinda feels like setting up to jump on Drixx.
It's not that you don't offer a line of reasoning for all of it, but I still feel that there's a pattern forming between the lines.
You're constantly setting yourself on the offensive - Like I said, I can see what you're saying in 193, but at that point, I'm not comfortable with the way you're ready to push Om. I'm a bit iffy at the way you easily Townread the weaker players you know, and then try to turn it on Om immediately. It's a trick I've used before as scum, and I see Om as being a relatively easy target at that point, in much the same vein as the others you described.
There's a very strong emphasis on scumreads in your posts over Town, bar a few cases that I've noticed are largely focused on people who know you, or who are largely Townread. Take 816. Ithad it's share of Townreads, but honestly, I think they're pretty shallow. There's too much emphasis on Events, or players who know you, with the exception of BRantz, who somehow gets by with a really mediocre reads list, and nothing else at that point, bar that push on Ice. (I would appreciate an elaboration on that, by the way. Also, it's probably academic by now, but I'm curious what the Town value was in Toon's 249) (I do like the Om read. Ogzin & Dani are wishy-washy enough to bug me, but I'll grant that Nulls do that. #hypocrite)
I'm also noticing a tendency towards discrediting people in a way that feels more reactionary than considered, like in 326, and then there's the whole way I've trended into being your top scumread. I mean, looking at your initial case on me, I'm seeing you projecting a lot of possible motivations behind my actions that don't really seem to take different personalities into account. It just kinda continues from there. (Seriously, how am I your top scum read in this field?) (As a counterpoint to the whole apologies thing, here's the ISO from my most pathetic Town game ever. The short of it is that I can be extremely stubborn about replacing out as Town, but at the same time, I tend to be embarrassed and apologetic at having to prod dodge at all. Couple that with the fact that I've already flaked on Dram before, and it adds up to being really annoying for me.)
I mean, being scum is like telling a story, and finding scum comes from knowing how people tell these stories. It's not so much that your reasoning is obviously flawed or whatnot, because it isn't, so much as it is the little things like how you're directing your focus & attention, and the patterns behind your play. You're good, and it's obvious at a glance. That means I'm not going to give you too much Town credit for presenting yourself well, because I think you could pull it off as scum. (That, and I'm pretty sure I've seen your name pop up in the Scummies thread more than once. Gotta love being famous.
I'm able to write some of it off as a personality disconnect, like your counter scumread on me, but there's still enough warning signs to make me wary of you.
Hitting the sack now.
Really, if you want an overview of my thoughts on you, I'd look at the first paragraph of this post here, and replace Drixx with yourself. I don't think all your analysis is faked, but then, this is multiball, and there are some serious warning serious above.
↑ Cerberus v666 wrote:The people who felt/feel most scummy to me are ones who we have good cause to not lynch due to their claims. In terms of things which have been said by people and feel like something scum might say, honestly nothing jumped out at me other than Sorens mention of a mass claim D1(I don't even know who Soren was replaced by, but whoever that person is), and NMI/Marquis' initial post about neighbor's which was asking for the pairings, and not just the status as a neighbor.
↑ deathfisaro wrote:What's the motivation behind not claiming voteless when it's pretty obvious who it is at this point?
↑ Bulbasaur Commonwealth wrote:
None of the interactions so far have struck out to you? What about if we go in the opposite direction: What interactions, if any, have given you town feelings from one/both party(ies)?
It seems odd from a surface perspective that, for the various interactions that have been in the thread--be they short or long, in a short span or extended to multiple pages for whatever reason--you haven't really seen much that sticks out to you. I say surface because I don't know exactly how many interactions you felt were worth looking into and how deep you looked into them, but it seems a little lackluster based on how in-depth it sounded like you went.
That's a shift, btw, at about the point where he posted his reads, I felt that he was pretty town, but I've felt less so as time goes on. Again, bias is possible, since I have had interactions since where we didn't agree.