We Didn't Playtest This | Game over, everyone loses

[Cerberus v666]

Om don't jump to conclusions. You do that a fair amount and that makes you an easy target.

A scum nightskipper can cause all one shot roles to be wasted.

We don't know enough right now to have him act or to confirm him as town.

I had a one shot lightning rod as scum once. That practically functioned as a scum nightstopper.

Titus, please read what I said:

"The problem with letting the night happen" means not triggering BB's ability.

There are pros and cons to using the night skip now.

Waiting until MYLO requires that BB stays alive until then, AND requires that the claim be true.

Personally, I would want to use it after a couple nights happen; however, if the claim is true, how likely is BB to be around then? I'm fairly sure that's about 95% of the reason people want to use the ability now.


@OM - For someone who talks about other people being stupid, you are missing things counter to what you're saying. You are arguing that it's a stupid fake claim because its so easy to confirm. Let's think this through:

1.) Assume the claim is fake and BB is scum (just assume it for the sake of thinking this through)
2.) Assume BB survives until MYLO and we decide to trigger the night skip then so that a mislynch doesn't lose the game for us and we mislynch (This is very plausible ... look at Titus just a couple posts up suggesting this exact use ... and she wasn't the first).
3.) Insta Lose if 1 and 2 are true.

At least apply some rational thought to things. Just because a claim is "easily verifiable" doesn't make it true. As far as we know the game setup, there's nobody in the game who actually

knows

anyone is town for sure (except for those of us who got assigned town). Sometimes you seem really on top of it and clever, and then sometimes you say things that make it seem like you make poor assumptions and don't think things through thoroughly. What's up with that?

+++++++++++

Yes! These posts are truth. Truth of claim is not proof of alignment. Shit, in a game with multiple scum teams, I could imagine a scum doctor existing. Just saying. Granted, this wasn't built with multiple scums in mind, so something like that's absurd...but still. Truth of claim is not proof of alignment. Period. Unless said claim is mason I guess, but even then how do you even verify? Rolecop I guess, because a regular cop would pick the wrong member of a fake mason team and hit a godfather. Anyways. I'm rambling. I'm really tired.

[Drixx]

I completely agree that it's more optimal to use the ability later ... I just have to figure that the probability of at least one shot of unblockable kill exists and thus if BB claimed truly, is there really any way he lives through the first night?

If you were scum, would you leave that ability in the game?

[Om of the Nom]

do you know what tho i am not suggesting we dont use it ever i am suggesting we delay it because skipping the first night aka the most crucial night for getting a bearing on the setup is a terrible idea
i do not think we should leave it to MYLO, i think at this point in time the best usage for it would be triggering it tomorrow or the night after
i would much much much much rather risk the death of molla right now than lose out on an entire phase worth of info this early into the game

and also as i literally said in the post u guys were responding to i think molla is so hecking town at this point in time outside of the claim too. this read is not based off role. the role itself is so easily confirmable, the play itself is so town. these are two separate concepts, dont try and twist my words into saying otherwise.

also what the fuck is up with that sass drixx i didnt raise you to talk to me with that kinda mouth my gosh

[Om of the Nom]

that middle paragraph was mostly directed at cerberus too btw

[Titus]

Absolutely.

It lets me PR fish when he goes off as whoever confirms BB triggered his ability is a confirmed power role.

Plus if BBis scum, that's exactly what he wants.

Trigger n1.
Cop says BB triggered.
Shoot cop.

Meanwhile if BB doesn't trigger, we get cop checks and other information about the setup.


@Om, I agree with waiting but BB's role could be a scum version.

[Titus]

I have had that before.

[Om of the Nom]

@Om, I agree with waiting but BB's role could be a scum version.

yes but hello titus this is DAY 1 of a LARGE GAME we have many more days to test this out

[Titus]

@Om, I agree with waiting but BB's role could be a scum version.

yes but hello titus this is DAY 1 of a LARGE GAME we have many more days to test this out

And you are yelling at the choir...

[Cerberus v666]

do you know what tho i am not suggesting we dont use it ever i am suggesting we delay it because skipping the first night aka the most crucial night for getting a bearing on the setup is a terrible idea
i do not think we should leave it to MYLO, i think at this point in time the best usage for it would be triggering it tomorrow or the night after
i would much much much much rather risk the death of molla right now than lose out on an entire phase worth of info this early into the game

and also as i literally said in the post u guys were responding to i think molla is so hecking town at this point in time outside of the claim too. this read is not based off role. the role itself is so easily confirmable, the play itself is so town. these are two separate concepts, dont try and twist my words into saying otherwise.

also what the fuck is up with that sass drixx i didnt raise you to talk to me with that kinda mouth my gosh

*shrug* What's so town about his play, beyond the fact that he played such a role in the way most likely to be accepted by town? actually, I don't have the energy for this. Maybe I'll look more closely at him in the morning. I never really felt especially skeptical of him or his claim tbh.

[Om of the Nom]

hey titus u know what would actually be helpful hmm maybe if you actually give your own certified opinion on what you think molla's alignment is because all ur doing right now is spouting theory and past experiences to me and it means nothing

[Om of the Nom]

here u r entertaining all the hypotheticals but ur not putting any thought into subjective opinions that actually move this game forward

[ChriVi]

The night skip is horrible tonight. If we skip tonight, we skip the night with the most people alive and the most PR abilities used at once... It's the shittiest idea we've ever heard of and we'd prefer if we didn't fuck up N1.

We have possible conf-towns and I'm sure there's at least one doctor or jailer or something to protect BBMolla until LyLo... That is assuming he's actual town and we can conf-town him by then.

[Drixx]

Presuming BB is being honest, I totally agree that the skip is better used later. The problem with that idea is making an assumption that BB will survive the night.

All the scum needs is a strongman type ability and there isn't any protecting BB. Given how many already claimed roles we have (and the presence of at least two BP role), it seems almost certain that such a scum role probably is in the game.

Scum will be faced with the WiFoM of whether there might be a watcher or something like that, but we can't

know

that BB will be alive if we let a night phase happen.

Is there something missing in how I've thought this through?

[VysePresident]

RE: Molla - Honestly, my thought process boils down to the fact that I kinda want a chance to catch up on my sleep, so I don't mind holding onto the night skip.

[VysePresident]

In a little bit of good news, Venusaur's back and seems like she's ready to dig in. I expect that both she and Bulba will need the night to be fully caught up, but we can hopefully be a more functional three-man team D2 (or at the very least I won't be the only one posting).

Bulb's now got a fairly healthy townread on vyse and Lucian (though I think this is all pre-page 70, or 60 or so). Not sure yet what his thoughts on BRantz are, though.

At this point we can be sure that Lucian and Vyse aren't going to be people we'll vote (even though I want to vote Lucian), as is Drixx (even though Bulb wants to vote him).

Why do I feel like I'm getting set up for a NK again? This is getting me really paranoid about the night.

Walk me through your read on me, and how you got here after pushing me for the longest time, please.

Actually, I'd like you to go over your reads in general. I look at your ISO, and I kinda feel like there's a lot of cheerleading going on.

[VysePresident]

I'd really appreciate thoughts on: Ogzin, Bulbasaur, & Copper, particularly that last since I just dropped a virtual wall, and I'd like to think I didn't completely waste my time.

[VysePresident]

Oh, and Death.

[VysePresident]

@Copper - Y'know...

Let's go with the bullet points version.

Spoiler: Tired rant that got longer than planned

-The alignment of Bulbasaur is almost irrelevant to the read I'm getting on you. (same for Om, or Drixx, or Lucian, or the others I mentioned, to answer that question about some reads I disliked.) Your thought process feels unnatural, and maybe a bit too straightforward. I can go into the whys of that yet again, but the short of it is that Bulbasaur could be Town, or your buddy, or anything, and it wouldn't change anything. I'm scumreading you for how you got to that conclusion.

-(As a sidenote, I realize one can have much better reads on players they know well. I've played several games off-site with some friends, and I can figure out a lot about them from their play that I couldn't do early on. Thing is, even these reads still need sorting out, and I'm uncomfortable with the 'tells' you're relying on.)

-I'm not looking for a debate, per se - I'm never going to convince you to vote yourself if I settle on my scumread, but I can get a better insight into your thought process via your responses, and gauge my read more accurately. (And yes, it should be pretty obvious which direction I'm headed, right now.)

-I'm not hitting you for scumhunting. I'm hitting you for what looks like Lynchhunting. Your Townreads feel perfunctory & strategic, and your focus mostly seems to be on feeling out a viable lynch. It's subtle, and I've waffled on this one to a ridiculous amount, but that's what I'm referring to.

-The deal with Om looked like a possible variation on the old White Knight scenario. Given that others were Townreading Om, I'm not giving you too many Townpoints for backing off.

-You use a lot of hyperbole & such in your posts. "It made me chuckle", that sort of thing. That's another warning sign.

-Gutreads are easy to laugh off. They also tend to work out for me. (They're also not illogical, and I hate it when people do that.)

-I don't have a watertight case on you, or else I'd be voting you over BRantz. Thing is, I've caught out a lot of good players based off the same type of pattern & focus analysis that has me eyeballing you. It's not something I'm going to let you laugh off.

-I also feel like you've been scumreading me for my read on you, and offering me subtle 'outs', like in 1870 & such. (What's your thoughts now it's obvious that I'm hardpushing BRantz? Is it legitimate? Is it just me posturing? What's your take?)

-You've been asking me to drop my case on you for ages. I've done it. It's partly to an audience, yes, and for obvious reasons, but I'm giving you a chance to weigh in as well. You seem to view this as a battle rather than a chance to work out why I think the way I do.

Goodnight. I'll talk to you tomorrow when I feel like getting baited again.

[God of Power Outlets]

unvote

Titus is right.

[copper223]

If Cerberus actually is town, he should not be allowed to play outside Rome. Vyse is the closest thing to conf. scum to me, did any of you actually bother to read that "case"?

- "I "feel" your scumhunting is fake", no evidence given, this is a problem while reading the whole thing as the actual posts he quotes are distorted by his interpretation of how he says he feels about what my possible motive for doing something is, which often can be proven to be objectively false (but hey he still doesn't care, see the Drixx pearl).
- "I don't want to interact with you because I can't convince you to vote yourself", forgetting that actually figuring out my alignment should be part of the process
- "No matter (!) your read on Om and Drixx, I still have a problem with it you", well that's very indicative of your alignment rather than mine.

Are just some of the pearls in there.

VOTE: VysePresident

[Cerberus v666]

Hmm. Are you just saying that I'm bad and thus shouldn't be allowed to affect the games you're more likely to play in?

[Titus]

hey titus u know what would actually be helpful hmm maybe if you actually give your own certified opinion on what you think molla's alignment is because all ur doing right now is spouting theory and past experiences to me and it means nothing

That's the rub. It's near impossible to determine Molla's alignment in this noise. Regardless of his alignment, it is a bad idea forhim to trigger n1.

[Titus]

We should use Molla's night skip as follows...

We have a suspicious every night actor who has claimed that.
That player confirms if nightskip was used.
Only if another PR disagrees is anything else said.

[copper223]

@Cerberus
It has more to do with the kind of play I expect outside of Rome and in that forum and the different mentality I have when playing in those different settings.

@Titus

That's the rub. It's near impossible to determine Molla's alignment in this noise. Regardless of his alignment, it is a bad idea forhim to trigger n1.

If he is scum it's an excellent idea to reaveal the fakeclaim as soon as possible

We have a suspicious every night actor who has claimed that.
That player confirms if nightskip was used.
Only if another PR disagrees is anything else said.

This is unclear to me, if BBmolla nightskips, then the suspicios every night actor, say for instance Jackel98, would not be able to do anything, we would start the next day which would confirm BBmolla's usage of something that let's him nightskip and?

[Titus]

@Cooper,

Both town and scum benefit by claiming that early. As massive roleblock later can lead to lynch.

Yes. Jackal98 confirms said nightskip thus saving our PRs from having to out to confirm BBMolla did or did not use nightskip.