Theme Test Market

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Post Post #1225 (ISO) » Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:25 pm

Post by JDodge »

Make them cross-kill immune (even if it's 1 or 2 shot) or they all lose.
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Post Post #1226 (ISO) » Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:57 pm

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

JDodge wrote:Make them cross-kill immune (even if it's 1 or 2 shot) or they all lose.
Edited; forgot to put that into typing :mrgreen:
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Post Post #1227 (ISO) » Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:54 pm

Post by Sir Tornado »

War Of Five Families Mafia

5 Families, each with 3 members. No townies. The family with last surviving member wins.

Each family can, perhaps have one player with a special ability (one can investigate to which family a player may belong, and that player's possible powers; one can protect another family member, one can be role blocker, one can be a unNKable and one can be a suicide bomber type, and get an extra NK when NKed)

As an interesting rule change, Night Talk can be disallowed between the mafia members, with the GF sending in the Night choices directly to the mod.
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Post Post #1228 (ISO) » Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:01 pm

Post by Mr. Flay »

No Town Mafia games are REALLY hard to balance/motivate; check out Rock Paper Scissors in Coney Island, and Gay Mafia (though it had other problems) in New York. There was at least one more game with only one townie, a two-vote Mayor, that did somewhat better... but still, there's almost no motivation to play the Day game, and no reason at ALL to ever defend anyone. So it becomes a bloodbath or a stallfest.

I wish I could figure out a way to make them work; well, I have a game in mind that's related, but more on that when I run it...
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Post Post #1229 (ISO) » Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:10 pm

Post by Sir Tornado »

Hmm... how about adding a twist that the Godfather doesn't know who his mafia goons are? But the goons would know their godfather (but not the other goon).

So, during the day time, you would have to figure out who your mafia partners are, and in the night try to eliminate the others.
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Post Post #1230 (ISO) » Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:42 pm

Post by Zindaras »

The way to do it is to not tell anyone they're in a Warring Gangs game. That's step one, and step one should always be made, in my opinion. Step two can be more than one thing.
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Post Post #1231 (ISO) » Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:47 pm

Post by Xdaamno »

This was all done in the game Flay mentioned. There were 3 families and one two-vote mayor (Who won IIRC), and I think it worked quite well. Can't find the link though.
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Post Post #1232 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:28 am

Post by Kelly Chen »

What we need is a bot that automatically responds to townless setup proposals.
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Post Post #1233 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:40 am

Post by Kelly Chen »

somestrangeflea wrote:Inspired by Farkel Mafia:

Yahtzee Mafia


13 players - 3 Vanilla Mafia, 10 Vanilla Townie

Players play 3 Yahtzee rounds (out of 13) each day, and every night, the players are arranged in order of points, and the current winner is granted immunity from the NK.
How many posts does it take to play 3 rounds of Yahtzee? It seems to me if the game takes more posts or more time than finding scum does, the game will suck really bad.

Does Yahtzee have any skill in it btw? If not, or if not much compared to the number of posts you have to make, I guess you might as well have "Spam Mafia" where you get night abilities by making tons of pointless posts (and making it impossible to find any scum naturally).

Would it be obvious who's in the lead when night falls? If so then there is little risk that the scum would try to kill somebody who won protection.
EDIT: The overall winner of Yahtzee on Day 5 is granted NK immunity for the rest of the game.
Running some numbers the game only lasts 5.16 days on average.
Thoughts? I'm trying to figure out what an ideal Scum/Townie ratio would be for this, how many players the game should be for, and whether or not something other than NK immunity should be offered.
To the last question I think definitely yes. The way it looks here I guess the protown thing to do is abstain from playing the Yahtzee part.
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Post Post #1234 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:18 am

Post by somestrangeflea »

Kelly Chen wrote:
somestrangeflea wrote:Inspired by Farkel Mafia:

Yahtzee Mafia


13 players - 3 Vanilla Mafia, 10 Vanilla Townie

Players play 3 Yahtzee rounds (out of 13) each day, and every night, the players are arranged in order of points, and the current winner is granted immunity from the NK.
How many posts does it take to play 3 rounds of Yahtzee? It seems to me if the game takes more posts or more time than finding scum does, the game will suck really bad.
It takes 1 player 3 posts for 1 round of Yahtzee, meaning that each player would have 9 "Spam" posts per day.
Kelly Chen wrote:Does Yahtzee have any skill in it btw? If not, or if not much compared to the number of posts you have to make, I guess you might as well have "Spam Mafia" where you get night abilities by making tons of pointless posts (and making it impossible to find any scum naturally).
Yahtzee requires some skill, but is mainly luck.
Kelly Chen wrote:Would it be obvious who's in the lead when night falls? If so then there is little risk that the scum would try to kill somebody who won protection.
Well yeah, but it's still good for the player who gets it, because, whether the Mafia know they've got it or not, they still can't be NKed!
Kelly Chen wrote:
EDIT: The overall winner of Yahtzee on Day 5 is granted NK immunity for the rest of the game.
Running some numbers the game only lasts 5.16 days on average.
Yeah, it needs more than 13 players. 13 is the bare minimum for the game to actually work.
Kelly Chen wrote:
Thoughts? I'm trying to figure out what an ideal Scum/Townie ratio would be for this, how many players the game should be for, and whether or not something other than NK immunity should be offered.
To the last question I think definitely yes. The way it looks here I guess the protown thing to do is abstain from playing the Yahtzee part.
What about:
A. Players are assigned power roles at the beginning of the game, but can only
use
them if they're winning.
B. Instead of NK immunity, next-day Lynch immunity? Double-Vote?
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Post Post #1235 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:26 am

Post by NabakovNabakov »

One thing about not telling scums they're in a warring gang setup is that it really screws with the player-mod relationship. Players generally don't expect the mod to be lying to them about things like that.

I once had an idea for a mini broken down into 4 factions, 3 groups of 3 scum, and 3 townies. The scum would think it was just a normal setup, but the townies would be told who the scum are and in what groups they exist. The game would then become a bout of psychological warfare as the scum try to figure out what the hell is going on and the townies try to bring about as many crosskills as possible. However, that would preclude any game anchoring practices like posting the townie role PM. It would be a fun game to read, but it seems to me like 9 people would end up being screwed over.
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Post Post #1236 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:03 am

Post by JDodge »

Random Deadline Mafia


Each day has a deadline anywhere from 3 days to 30. The players don't know when the deadline
is
, though, and there is no warning. Whomever has the most votes at deadline is lynched, in case of a tie, the first person to reach that number of votes in lynched.
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Post Post #1237 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:10 am

Post by NabakovNabakov »

Didn't they already do that in 100 mph Mafia?
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Post Post #1238 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:10 am

Post by NabakovNabakov »

Didn't they already do that in 100 mph Mafia?

If I remember correctly, the scum won easily because the town kept getting locked into lynches they didn't really want.
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Post Post #1239 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:12 am

Post by JDodge »

DAMNIT, every unique idea I have has already been done.
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Post Post #1240 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:41 pm

Post by Kelly Chen »

NabakovNabakov wrote:One thing about not telling scums they're in a warring gang setup is that it really screws with the player-mod relationship. Players generally don't expect the mod to be lying to them about things like that.
The mod wouldn't lie. In a closed (non-normal) setup players don't have a right to know what kind of setup it is.
I once had an idea for a mini broken down into 4 factions, 3 groups of 3 scum, and 3 townies. The scum would think it was just a normal setup, but the townies would be told who the scum are and in what groups they exist. The game would then become a bout of psychological warfare as the scum try to figure out what the hell is going on and the townies try to bring about as many crosskills as possible. However, that would preclude any game anchoring practices like posting the townie role PM. It would be a fun game to read, but it seems to me like 9 people would end up being screwed over.
I don't think it would play out like this. The townies don't have incentive to be sneaky and only claim one scum at a time or anything; they'll be suspected as cops and nightkilled. I'm pretty sure the townies should out all nine scum at once.
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Post Post #1241 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:11 pm

Post by NabakovNabakov »

You just hang around here to break setups and crush dreams don't you?


IMO, it would still be tough to surprise a group of people with a warring factions game. If it is a non-normal setup, it becomes a theme, and most themes put what their theme is in the title. If you wanted people to think it was standard mafia, you would have to put that in the title. Then folks would wonder what it's doing in Coney Island.

I guess you could do a flavor theme game
and
mess with the setup without telling anybody.
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Post Post #1242 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:40 pm

Post by Adel »

Try it out in scumchat, or have someone else. I think there is a real chance of it being interesting even if the townies follow Kelly Chan's advice.

I'd call it something like "totally normal 18-person mafia", and get a list mod or whoever is necessary to approve it being in the New York section. If that didn't work I would make up a "cover theme" like "Cirque Du Soleil Mafia" and run it as a large theme game. I think a larger version would make for a more interesting game than a smaller version.
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Post Post #1243 (ISO) » Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:03 pm

Post by Kelly Chen »

I ran a mini with two scum groups of three without calling it "Six scum mafia" or anything.

I don't see how the game could be interesting if a townie takes my advice and claims all the scum D1. The scum would just crosskill each other out of existence since the town would be no further threat.
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Post Post #1244 (ISO) » Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:06 pm

Post by Adel »

Kelly Chen wrote: The scum would just crosskill each other out of existence since the town would be no further threat.
... leaving townies to win?
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Post Post #1245 (ISO) » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:04 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

Are there readers of the webcomic "sluggy freelance" around the forum who would be interested in being in a rather complex theme game based on the comic?
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Post Post #1246 (ISO) » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:01 am

Post by Kelly Chen »

Adel wrote:
Kelly Chen wrote: The scum would just crosskill each other out of existence since the town would be no further threat.
... leaving townies to win?
It seems to me a scum group's only hope of winning is to kill the other scum, and hope those guys are stupid enough to kill town, even as they're taking hits at night.

If that plan is considered impossible then it doesn't matter what scum do as far as I can see.
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Post Post #1247 (ISO) » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:56 am

Post by Adel »

To me it sounds like a multi-player version of the prisoner's dilemma, where the choice has to be decided by consensus for each group. I'd place the town's chances of victory at about 25%, and equivalent to each of the three scum groups.
2 mafia group a
2 mafia group b
2 mafia group c
4 informed townies who know which players are in which mafia group.
Multiply the number of players by 2 to get a 20-player game.

I think it is a very interesting setup. It may even work as an open game, and without the bastard mod element, but I like the idea of bastard-mod games being in the open queue as well. Right-on: "the theme of my games requires it to pretend to be an open game, and be posted in the open queue." Is there any way that it could happen? If so than I propose that we start a "bastard mod workgroup" and design games in secret that will mess with all of the queue divisions and game types. Pretend to run a normal 14 player game, but actually divide the players into two group each playing a separate newbie game in the same thread: just ignore all unvotes and votes by players for people that are not in the same game. A night in one game is just treated as a pause by the other game even though all players will think they are observing all night.
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Post Post #1248 (ISO) » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:47 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

I got a question for Kelly, what would happen if the votes were to all be private in a given open setup game ?
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Post Post #1249 (ISO) » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:48 am

Post by JDodge »

Albert B. Rampage wrote:I got a question for Kelly, what would happen if the votes were to all be private in a given open setup game ?
My guess would be "it takes away a powerful tool for the town", if that at all matters.
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