We Didn't Playtest This | Game over, everyone loses

[Titus]

Whoops, that last post didn't even have coherent thoughts.

"The volcano faction probably went for their opposing cop, and you saved a potential town death by re-directing a kill on Molla to the same slot of Marquis."

This has even more assumptions. Why could Marquis check only one faction? How do you know it was volcanoes?

[Titus]

only one kill?

did anyone roleblock anyone?

maybe everyone should hypoclaim roleblocker, and who they wouldve roleblocked if they were a RBer?

Two factions killed same dude most likely.

[Narninian]

Scratch everything about scum making the same kill.

The volcano dudes probably went for Marquis, and you saved a potential town death by having it aimed at the same slot.

That's what I'm hoping you intended, correct?

Or did you scumread Marquis?

I'd love to take credit for putting both kills in the same spot, but really I figured marquis would be protected so it would 'waste' the kill and the redirect would have a slightly better chance of working than if I targeted somebody who I thought had a good chance of being scum.

In the end it looks like it might have had the result I wanted, albeit in a different way.

[LucianRoy]

Molla, were you the one to say you knew one of the mafia faction's names yesterday?
It was either Ice or Molla that mentioned something about volcanos...

[Narninian]

It was part of the miller claim right?

[Titus]

Lucian, stop dodging me. What made you think Marquis only got positives on volcanoes?

[LucianRoy]

I'd love to take credit for putting both kills in the same spot, but really I figured marquis would be protected so it would 'waste' the kill and the redirect would have a slightly better chance of working than if I targeted somebody who I thought had a good chance of being scum.

In the end it looks like it might have had the result I wanted, albeit in a different way.

Yeah, even if the first kill was protected, the second one would've made it through.
It wasn't exactly the result you intended, but it still saved us another potential town-death.
Unfortunately, there were no scum flips, so we're a little tied down in regards the information we learned from the results of the kills.
We might still be able to piece something together from Marquis's death.

You should totally try to kill some scum next time, though.
That, or save yourself at the same time.

[LucianRoy]

Lucian, stop dodging me. What made you think Marquis only got positives on volcanoes?

I thought Marquis was the one who claimed the name of the volcano faction, but I forgot it was apparently Molla.
That's why I asked: "was it molla, or ice that claimed they knew one of the faction's names?"

[LucianRoy]

It was part of the miller claim right?

Yep.

[Titus]

Lucian, stop dodging me. What made you think Marquis only got positives on volcanoes?

I thought Marquis was the one who claimed the name of the volcano faction, but I forgot it was apparently Molla.
That's why I asked: "was it molla, or ice that claimed they knew one of the faction's names?"

I am psuedo voting this.

[LucianRoy]

Hey, I screwed up. I didn't have my facts straight.

Also, I didn't use my gun last night, so I still have my bullet.
Not that I'm subtly implying anything...

[LucianRoy]

Here's the revised edition:
The other mafia faction made their direct Nk on Marquis, and the volcano dudes were redirected from Molla at Marquis.

[Titus]

Hey, I screwed up. I didn't have my facts straight.

Also, I didn't use my gun last night, so I still have my bullet.
Not that I'm subtly implying anything...

Treestumps are immune to all day/night kills.

Not to directly state anything.

[LucianRoy]

That's proven...
Too bad you can't vote, technically.

[Narninian]

ok - what is a vca?

[Titus]

It is.


@Narnian - VCA is short for Vote Count Analysis. You look at who vote whom and what options they had. A player who consistently votes scum is more likely than not town.

[Drixx]

I'm really torn on doing this but I think it will probably help town more than scum to reveal this;

I am a kill re director; Last night I chose somebody to have the first kill attempt on them go to another target (of my choice) -- this doesn't work if the new target is source of the kill. (my understanding is if its mafia, anybody in that mafia team, not just the person actually performing the kill)

I targeted BBMolla and redirected it to Marquis. Basically if I chose scum there was a chance it would fail, and I was hoping Marquis would be protected, its possible he *WAS* protected and my redirect is what killed him.... sorry. thinking about it now, if I had targeted somebody I thought was scummy and it failed, then I had a probably confirmed scum so I shouldn't have done it that way.

Or hell, redirect it to one of the bulletproofs

THIS! So much this! If you had redirected onto me, then if it was Eviscerate, it would have fizzled due to my immunity to werewolf kills (How on EARTH is Copper the only one who realized what "Silver lining" meant?).

@ActionDan - You have some reason more than an assumption that "werewolf" isn't usually a "mafia" faction to back up your claim that my immunity isn't to one of the mafia groups? The kill flavor looks an awful lot like the earlier outed "volcano" mafia (incinerate) and a "werewolf" mafia (eviscerate).

Here's the revised edition:
The other mafia faction made their direct Nk on Marquis, and the volcano dudes were redirected from Molla at Marquis.

This looks a LOT like a scum slip. How on earth could you know which faction targeted Marquis, or even if a re-direct happened, unless you were on the team that got re-directed? I re-read all of today to see if there was some obscure bit of info that could lead to this conclusion, and I don't see it. You appear to know things you can't possibly know Lucian.

FoS Lucian

@Titus - You should probably link to the VCA thread. Your description of VCA and how it is applied is lacking a lot. (For the record, I have a very LOW view of VCA. I think it is, at best, a weak sorting tool. Large scale probability

does not

apply to individual situations, and PoE plus context will get you a lot farther than thinking about all the possible things VCA might be showing).

[Narninian]

I'd love to take credit for putting both kills in the same spot, but really I figured marquis would be protected so it would 'waste' the kill and the redirect would have a slightly better chance of working than if I targeted somebody who I thought had a good chance of being scum.

In the end it looks like it might have had the result I wanted, albeit in a different way.

Yeah, even if the first kill was protected, the second one would've made it through.
It wasn't exactly the result you intended, but it still saved us another potential town-death.
Unfortunately, there were no scum flips, so we're a little tied down in regards the information we learned from the results of the kills.
We might still be able to piece something together from Marquis's death.

You should totally try to kill some scum next time, though.
That, or save yourself at the same time.

yeah, I was trying to be clever and avoiding the 'fail' trigger - but really if it fails I learn a lot. Unfortunately we can't really can't about who I can/should target. We *can* speculate on who my redirect target should be, but if scum knows who Im redirecting from then they are free to kill them if they also know who Im going to redirect to.

[Titus]

@Drixx, vote Lucian for me please.

I will link to the VCA thread. I also will not quibble with ypu to prove VCA's value now, but it is incredibly useful when triggered at the right time and in seasoned hands.

[copper223]

@Titus
Why didn't you unstump?

[Om of the Nom]

VOTE: lucian

[Narninian]

Why would the 'volcano' faction target BBMolla who shows up as volcano.

Either
A) He is telling the truth, and shows up as scum -- he'll always be somewhat suspected of being scum because of this. Him alive is one more lynch target thats not them.
B) He is lying and is actualy part of the volcano faction. (Obviously they wouldn't target him then)

I can see the other faction targeting him for the powerful night skip, but not the volcano mafia specifically.

[Titus]

@Titus
Why didn't you unstump?

Because having a kill immune townie is better at this point. If I unstump at the right time, town wins as I get two votes the day I unstump.

So in a 1 v 1 town wins.

I also suck at early game.

@Narn do not redirect to me as the mod has told me that someone can force me to untreestump.

[copper223]

@Cerberus
Your campaing of misinformation is noted and I don't like it one bit, you are going as far as insinuating it's possible you yourself are scum, which is completely anti-town.

Jackel98, bless his soul, is clearly a new player learning the ropes and if he had told us about his full role, only an insane person would have killed him before D2 when his results are made public, I expect most of the other players to have an understanding of how to win for their alignment, so Marquis claiming to be a neighborhood daycop D1, knowing he is likely going to be NKed, when he is really something else entirely is not something I would expect, the logical assumption is to believe what he said as town.

@mod: is there a reason we can't have full flips?

I agree you 3 wouldn't have been confirmed in the sense that it's impossible for all 3 to be scum, but this is a game where you take the 99% approach and if he confirmed the two of you and you stayed alive for more than 2 days as a block you would have all been lynched, that is basically giving away a scum faction which is something that doesn't make sense, so the probability of him doing it as town if you are all actually town is close to 100%, whereas the probability of him doing it as scum if you are all scum together is around 0%, I use confirmed in these situations because I don't play the paranoia game.

@Narninian
That redirect is suspect, I hope you are gated somehow on the players you are allowed to redirect on otherwise it was a very poor choice or more likely you are scum.

[copper223]

@Toon
I explained my role multiple times, check my ISO.