We Didn't Playtest This | Game over, everyone loses

[ActionDan]

I am in consultation with the mods on the subject and I reckon they updated their definitions due to me asking rather precise questions thank you very much

[deathfisaro]

@AD: I remember you saying there must be 2 mafia factions from your role PM (and werewolf must be a separate faction). More accurate wording please? Does it say like "both mafia factions" or "2 mafia factions" or the like? Or is it more like "all mafia factions"

[ActionDan]

Questioning finished. Congrats Drixx, you're most likely town. I however, don't believe that your pm contains "werewolf mafia" or "lycan mafia" and I also believe that the expression was pluralized.

@the above: yes i did say that and it says "mafia". I also only believe there to be one mafia faction instead of two

[Titus]

@Drixx, Flag on the play. Kill flavor does not support concluding any scumteam exists.

What did you think of the speedwagons yesterday?

[deathfisaro]

Titus, are you saying like ~2 people obvcounterwagoned to save their buddy and it rolled that fast?

[Titus]

Titus, are you saying like ~2 people obvcounterwagoned to save their buddy and it rolled that fast?

Ewww on this Garcia.

I am not stating anything. I want Drixx's opinion.

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

VOTE: Bulbasaur Commonwealth

Hiya, Bulb!

I really want to hear how you went from begging for my lynch to Townreading me & pushing my primary opponent/scumread for most of the game.

I feel like I'm getting baited pretty darn hard.

I'd also appreciate some thoughts or a general overview behind the rest of your pushes.

I had you as scum via associations at the beginning of the game. Your interactions with Drixx and Lucian looked like newb scum who was talking to his buddies in the thread and then subsequently trying to figure out how to avoid said buddies in thread. Both of their play also came off as incredibly scummy and seemed to confirm that. However, I dumped that theory after Lucian claimed. Regardless of how he's played, his claim is incredibly town and easily provable, providing that he shoots one of the players who can die. Shortly thereafter, you gave your first catchup post, which I liked and felt sounded very town. Furthermore, your thought process has mirrored mine as I've caught up with the thread, so yeah, you've gone from strong scum read to strong town read over the course of my readthrough. It wasn't that drastic of a change, but I can understand your apprehension, as you were getting it from Ivy, who was further in the thread than I was.

As for some of my reads, they all got tossed around by the time I reached the end, but I'm hoping live play will help things out much. Copper was a read I got to slowly over my readthrough. It was based off of something in the back of my brain telling me that his play just didn't feel right. I felt that he was positioning himself in the thread, rather than naturally scumhunting, and I felt that he was a good enough player to pull that off as scum. I also hated how he would rub his reads in everyone's faces, as if that was to prove he was town, how he would go after harder pushes at times that didn't make sense for town to do so, as if to say "Hey! I'm not being opportunistic! Would scum really do this?", and how he would use activity or "I'm being widely townread" as arguments to shut suspicion down (to be fair, Drixx was doing this too, which is why I suspected him). Drixx was a scumread of mine for most of the game due to the way he defended himself when cornered (deflection and trying to tear down his accuser) and that parts of his claim wasn't adding up (I swear he's changed details at certain points.). However, I'm liking today's play, and it's working with my current theory of the game. I'm not interested in going after him or Dan today. I have Oranje as a possible SK, due not only to their claim, which doesn't add up, but also that their early play didn't feel right. I may still be paranoid of Bro after Capcom, but I don't think I'm the only one who's noticed the difference there. Trouser God, Molla, and Om are playing to their town games, and I will never lynch them. Toon is also a claimed mason with TG and is playing completely different than Unbalanced 2, so easy town read there. Boonskiies is reminding me of Joss Whedon Mafia, so I have him as town. Narnian and Cerebus's moves, while stupid, are not indicative of scum and more likely come from town. I'm having a lot of problems with Brantz's claim, mainly due to the fact that a 3-shot is way too powerful even for a large, so expecting it to be in a mini is kind of a stretch. Even if it is confirmable, that doesn't mean he's town. I've asked Venusaur about Ozgin, although I suspect that it has something to do with dumb tells. Titus is looking really town. Mollie I want to interact with, because Capcom paranoia. Vonflare I just want dead, even thought a part of me thinks scum can't be that stupid.

Does that answer any of your questions?

@Lucian
I'd appreciate you shooting the Bulbasaur Commonwealth in the face so I don't have to waste my time making anither case about why they are scum.

It's nice to know that your scumreads are static and not fluid. Did you find a better reason than "Mastin is playing like she always does in any game."?

@All
What Cerberus has to gain is create a massive amount of confusion where no clear road to victory can be seen amidst all the speculation about weird and unlikely scenarios.

I think that would draw more attention on him, which is something that he wouldn't want as scum. If NKs are meant to tell a story, than last night's was meant to tell us that Cerebus is scum, which is why I don't trust this Cerebus push.

- it is extremely unwise to keep Molla around untested until mylo as Titus suggested, I'd test today or tomorrow.

I agree with this, but only if Lucian shoots today, so we can essentially get 3 lynches out of this.

-Bulbasaur

[Narninian]

To add on the mylo vs now discussion for bbmolla we do have to consider he might have been targeted last night...
There are saves (and some WIFOM on that regard) but he could also die before we can use it for town benefit.

[Magua]

@Mod: I will be V/LA until Monday the 23rd.

---

VOTE: Cerberus v666

Ranked on a list of priorities, Marquis should've been lower than others (eg TPTG, BBmolla) unless scum thought he was going to get a guilty on them.

@Narninian:

You take the kill on someone you don't want to die, and put it on someone you *do* want to die.

[Titus]

To add on the mylo vs now discussion for bbmolla we do have to consider he might have been targeted last night...
There are saves (and some WIFOM on that regard) but he could also die before we can use it for town benefit.

The town benefit is getting us an extra lynch as bb is a nightstopper, not a kill stopper.

[Narninian]

@Narninian:

You take the kill on someone you don't want to die, and put it on someone you *do* want to die.

Yes, I understand this concept - I explained why I did what I did (And the fact is it worked out if my ability actually did trigger and BBmolla is town)

1) If I target the scum that did the kill, my ability doesn't work (so if I'm actually correct in picking out scum, there is a significant chance (50% if there are 2 scum parties) that my ability will fail)
2) If I don't target scum at all, then I'm just choosing a different townie to die --as I'm sure there are plenty of powerful roles that haven't been claimed yet (as everyone has one) this is not necessarily useful.

With those 2 factors, I was trying to maximize my chance to straight up prevent the kill if my ability triggered. When using it again I'll have a lot more information to work with (2 more flips at least) so I'll probably use it more traditionally.

[Narninian]

To add on the mylo vs now discussion for bbmolla we do have to consider he might have been targeted last night...
There are saves (and some WIFOM on that regard) but he could also die before we can use it for town benefit.

The town benefit is getting us an extra lynch as bb is a nightstopper, not a kill stopper.

huh? I just mean if we don't use his ability until Mylo he might die before we can use it.

[Titus]

To add on the mylo vs now discussion for bbmolla we do have to consider he might have been targeted last night...
There are saves (and some WIFOM on that regard) but he could also die before we can use it for town benefit.

The town benefit is getting us an extra lynch as bb is a nightstopper, not a kill stopper.

huh? I just mean if we don't use his ability until Mylo he might die before we can use it.

We would get no use before mylo anyway.

[ActionDan]

Narn, from now on you should randomly pick a BP and move it to the other

[Narninian]

not a bad idea

[Titus]

No he should take kills from obvtown and redirect them.

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

To add on the mylo vs now discussion for bbmolla we do have to consider he might have been targeted last night...
There are saves (and some WIFOM on that regard) but he could also die before we can use it for town benefit.

The town benefit is getting us an extra lynch as bb is a nightstopper, not a kill stopper.

huh? I just mean if we don't use his ability until Mylo he might die before we can use it.

We would get no use before mylo anyway.

Not true. We now have information from the night to help us make better decisions during the day. If we use Molla's ability on the same day that Lucian shoots, we can potentially nail 3 scum before ever going into night. Granted, I'd prefer one more night of info beforehand, but there's no reason to wait until Mylo to use the ability, especially since there's no guarantee Molla will live that long.

-Bulbasaur

[Cerberus v666]

Bulbasaur, if I may ask, what play of mine was stupid? Or at least, stupid in a way that it should be mentioned in the same breath as narninian choosing to redirect a kill to a cop rather than to a treestump/BP in an attempt to prevent the kill completely.

@Magua: V/La, so you probably won't answer this, but: On what possible priority list is BBMolla, who lets town lynch twice,a higher priority than Marquis, who can actually find scum?

[deathfisaro]

Bulbasaur, if I may ask, what play of mine was stupid? Or at least, stupid in a way that it should be mentioned in the same breath as

narninian choosing to redirect a kill to a cop rather than to a treestump/BP

in an attempt to prevent the kill completely.

OK I'm actually sold on this.
There is no certainty that a protective role exists in this game (because a 13p vanilaless I played had none). And BPs weren't playing to draw in NKs. Now that AD and Drixx claimed BP, there's little merit for scums to risk shooting them. So if Narninian redirected kill from Marquis to Drixx (who claimed werewolf-BP or eviscerateproof) for example, then we have the information volcano wanted Marquis dead which leads to a very high chance of volcano existing in the neighbourhood.
Redirect could have killed the cop if neither scum actually targeted him (you know, if you expected Marquis to be protected, wouldn't scums too?)

[Oranje Crush]

Ak, I forgot about this hydra. Please forgive me.

I'm not absolutely sure that it was 2 mafia factions considering the eviscerate kill flavor could be an SK. Assuming that incinerate is volcano flavor.

No one's one-hundred percent certain that both mafia factions made the kill, e,g: doctor saves, but I think It's a safe assumption that the two mafia factions shot the same person. The Mafia wouldn't pass up a chance to kill, but the Sk might... that's a very strong

might

. I've never seen it happen in a game, but the sk might not have killed in order for us to doubt the presence of third party. Also, mafia often think alike, whether they want to or not. Killing the cop and blinding the town of information early-game isn't a half bad strategy. It's almost the most obvious move.

Why are you so certain there's a serial killer when that hasn't been confirmed?
If you weren't pretty much conf-town I'd call this an SK slip.

Lol, semi-scum slip later.
Though is day-cop a scum role?
I'm continuing catch up before I choose a vote.

Also, why has nobody considered that scum targeted me thinking I was lying commute as a fake claim to draw kills away from me? Well, it may be so I blocked it.

I'm in need of a good recheck of everyones ISO's I'll do so this weekend. Any questions for me?
I'll post cases on scum once I'm refreshed.

I didn't get any abilities last night, maybe tommorow

[Oranje Crush]

Day-vig*

[BBmolla]

AD is Narn just dumb or scum I literally don't know

[Titus]

Bulbasaur, if I may ask, what play of mine was stupid? Or at least, stupid in a way that it should be mentioned in the same breath as

narninian choosing to redirect a kill to a cop rather than to a treestump/BP

in an attempt to prevent the kill completely.

OK I'm actually sold on this.
There is no certainty that a protective role exists in this game (because a 13p vanilaless I played had none). And BPs weren't playing to draw in NKs. Now that AD and Drixx claimed BP, there's little merit for scums to risk shooting them. So if Narninian redirected kill from Marquis to Drixx (who claimed werewolf-BP or eviscerateproof) for example, then we have the information volcano wanted Marquis dead which leads to a very high chance of volcano existing in the neighbourhood.
Redirect could have killed the cop if neither scum actually targeted him (you know, if you expected Marquis to be protected, wouldn't scums too?)

Not if both scumteams were given the fake claim of bp and at least one may have used it (A)

[Titus]

OC is still a good lynch.

[BBmolla]

Agreed

Waiting for brants to leave.