We Didn't Playtest This | Game over, everyone loses

[copper223]

@Oranje
You also forget I was the first to scumread the pirates yesterday because of their Drixx read, how does that fit with your theory?

[Drixx]

Unvote

So that's a thing then. The Lihin case looks pretty strong. Let's put some pressure on Lihin to show up and respond, shall we?

VOTE: Lihin

Also ... where is OM? Om ... come back and play. I won't bite you if you don't bite me first!

[Om of the Nom]

im here now
VOTE: lihin

[Boonskiies]

@Titus - I posted on the page before the one you posted that. haha.

I've been in a sitewide lull the past week or so. I'm finally able to get more time into this. DON'T WORRY!! THE BOON SHALL PREVAIL AND PROBABLY CATCH UP ON THIS GAME DURING NIGHT 2.

Or now. I could do it now.

[Boonskiies]

Are we voting Lihin?

VOTE: Lihin

[BRantz]

I agree that we should shoot pika today. If he flips scum I think oranje, Vyse or vonflare. If he flips town lynch ozgin.

Will give it till tonight so people can ask me anything I may have missed or talk to me about whatever, then will leave again.

Thoughts on lihin?
I posted a huge case like a few posts up.

Your case on Lihin is pretty good. I was hoping that Lihin would respond this afternoon sometime so I could decide one way or the other, but I'm not against Lihin as a lynch candidate at this point.

This will be my last post of the day. See you all in day 3.

[Cuttlefish]

BRantz has been removed from the game.

[BBmolla]

cool

VOTE: Oranje

[LucianRoy]

I guess he's confirmed whatever he claimed.

We should force a claim from lihin.

[Narninian]

Vote: Oranje Crush

[Titus]

I guess he's confirmed whatever he claimed.

We should force a claim from lihin.

Barring a serial killer, Brantz is town.

[Titus]

@Titus - I posted on the page before the one you posted that. haha.

I've been in a sitewide lull the past week or so. I'm finally able to get more time into this. DON'T WORRY!! THE BOON SHALL PREVAIL AND PROBABLY CATCH UP ON THIS GAME DURING NIGHT 2.

Or now. I could do it now.

This Boonskiies says that boonskiies should remember why we mislynched the vigilante in Titus meet. Possible here?

[Oranje Crush]

Vote: Oranje Crush

Any explanation?

@Copper, That means nothing it's called scum soft-bussing. However resisting a cop shot that flipped mafia is another thing.
I still have my doubts, if lihin flips town I'll have to rethink you.

[Oranje Crush]

Oranje is lying.

No shit.

He should be copped.

He's probably Ascetic JOAT or some shit though.

Eh, no.

[wgeurts]

Oh, I forgot copper.
You literally said that Mollie was town in your oppinion, stop all this "I never opposed the shot" stuff, because we all knoe you did.

Loving how the lihin wagon consists of only town readsま

[wgeurts]

Where did that Chinese symbol come from, what does it even mean?

Edit: I googled it and it mean "or", strange powers are active here…

[Toon Fighter]

Okay the game grew monstrously during the last couple days and I just spend nearly 2 hours reading all this before posting. Get ready as I comment on some interesting things I found...

I'm really torn on doing this but I think it will probably help town more than scum to reveal this;

I am a kill re director; Last night I chose somebody to have the first kill attempt on them go to another target (of my choice) -- this doesn't work if the new target is source of the kill. (my understanding is if its mafia, anybody in that mafia team, not just the person actually performing the kill)

I targeted BBMolla and redirected it to Marquis. Basically if I chose scum there was a chance it would fail, and I was hoping Marquis would be protected, its possible he *WAS* protected and my redirect is what killed him.... sorry. thinking about it now, if I had targeted somebody I thought was scummy and it failed, then I had a probably confirmed scum so I shouldn't have done it that way.

Very interesting claim. Don't see scum coming out like this. Still, as has been pointed out, the redirect choice was questionable, at best. If we have 3+ scum factions, could see Narninian being of the one that didn't target Marquis originally (assuming he is actually telling the truth that is, but the motivation for the claim seems to suggest so), but other than that he seems 80% conftown at this point.

I'm really torn on doing this but I think it will probably help town more than scum to reveal this;

I am a kill re director; Last night I chose somebody to have the first kill attempt on them go to another target (of my choice) -- this doesn't work if the new target is source of the kill. (my understanding is if its mafia, anybody in that mafia team, not just the person actually performing the kill)

I targeted BBMolla and redirected it to Marquis. Basically if I chose scum there was a chance it would fail, and I was hoping Marquis would be protected, its possible he *WAS* protected and my redirect is what killed him.... sorry. thinking about it now, if I had targeted somebody I thought was scummy and it failed, then I had a probably confirmed scum so I shouldn't have done it that way.

Or hell, redirect it to one of the bulletproofs

THIS! So much this! If you had redirected onto me, then if it was Eviscerate, it would have fizzled due to my immunity to werewolf kills (How on EARTH is Copper the only one who realized what "Silver lining" meant?).

@ActionDan - You have some reason more than an assumption that "werewolf" isn't usually a "mafia" faction to back up your claim that my immunity isn't to one of the mafia groups? The kill flavor looks an awful lot like the earlier outed "volcano" mafia (incinerate) and a "werewolf" mafia (eviscerate).

Here's the revised edition:
The other mafia faction made their direct Nk on Marquis, and

the volcano dudes were redirected from Molla at Marquis.

This looks a LOT like a scum slip

. How on earth could you know which faction targeted Marquis, or even if a re-direct happened, unless you were on the team that got re-directed? I re-read all of today to see if there was some obscure bit of info that could lead to this conclusion, and I don't see it. You appear to know things you can't possibly know Lucian.

FoS Lucian

@Titus - You should probably link to the VCA thread. Your description of VCA and how it is applied is lacking a lot. (For the record, I have a very LOW view of VCA. I think it is, at best, a weak sorting tool. Large scale probability

does not

apply to individual situations, and PoE plus context will get you a lot farther than thinking about all the possible things VCA might be showing).

Agree. And with the recent Pika shot, and requests for night protection and stuff, I would not discard the potential 'Lucian scum in a non-berlin facton' possibility (as we are pretty much confirmed multiball at this point).

If you are still lost after your reread, the protown thing is to kill one of the people wagoned yesterday (PV or Drixx). That would help us learn if those wagons changing fast were in defense of a buddy or not.

@Drixx not getting into a theory debate with you.

Before the cop result, this actually made sense. Good post (one of the only ones) by Titus.

Vote Count 2.01

Oranje Crush (2)

- Narninian, Toon Fighter

LucianRoy (2)

- Om of the Nom, Drixx

Titus (1)

- Three-Pronged Trouser God

copper223 (1)

- Bulbasaur Commonwealth

Pirate Ika (1)

- Ozgin

Ozgin (1)

- deathfisaro

Bulbasaur Commonwealth (1)

- VysePresident

Not Voting (16)

: Pirate Ika, Oranje Crush, ActionDan, ChriVi, Boonskiies, PeregrineV, vonflare, Cerberus v666, BRantz, LucianRoy, Magua, Titus, Lihin, BBmolla, copper223

With 25 votes in play, it takes 13 to lynch.

Deadline falls in (expired on 2015-04-02 10:05:14).

@mod: is there a reason we can't have full flips?

Yes, giving full flips would be a significant balance shift that we did not plan for.

I've amended rule I to include the clause in parentheses:

I. This game will use no factions other than what is considered normal (town, mafia, werewolf and serial killer).

Will no one comment on the fact that we have more votes than players this time (a triple vote or 2 double votes if Titus maintains her stump quality)? Ok then

Also how the fuck am I a "good lynch".
I was "fucking town" yesterday before twighlight. I claimed, didn't die and only one kill happened. How fucking far-streched is your mind to think that I'm still SK and not a commuter.

ESPECIALLY when one night kill was blocked possibly be me.

That is assuming a lot. Don't be cocky.

trouser pple can I somehow persuade you and toon to move here?

just look at twilight.

just look at it.

I was already there. But you are a dead scum now, so it doesn't matter much

ok two things:


1- I said this in the mason PT and I'll say it here, setup spec is the most boring fucking thing ever. Stop fucking claiming every five seconds and stop trying to outguess the mod. It literally makes me hate all of you.

2- if ozgin is claiming a guilty on mollie, there's only one play to make: one of them has to die

unvote
Vote: pirate ika

That's all. Having a shitty day, don't bother engaging me if you have soft feelings

-kuribo, the Crimson Fucker

Do people want me to go away again today?

Catching up in a few hours either way.

Bolding mine.

Vote on Lucian until he shoots the guilty, because like TPTG says, that's the ONLY reasonable response. Take the shot, prove your claim AND kill scum. Assuming he flips scum, congratulations, you just saved town DAYS of arguing over whether or not we should lynch him with constant reference to alternative scenarios involving redirections of all sorts. If you don't shoot him, well...seems like a good chance we just found two scum.

Vote: LucianRoy

BRantz: Yes, I want you to go away sometime shortly before a lynch is guaranteed on someone else, so you leaving doesn't screw up votes, and we have time to lynch you if you don't actually go away as you claim you're going to do, and so you have time to contribute prior to leaving.

Bulbasaur: Hmm. The aim isn't to cause WIFOM, but to honestly bring up all possibilities as they occur to me. I do see your point though.

Oranje: My votes going on you as soon as Lucian shoots, until someone does something scummier than claiming a role that incentives town to not investigate you, and justifies continued survival into the late game, while simultaneously doing so during THE WORST TIME OF DAY TO CLAIM A ROLE THAT CAN WASTE A NK, WHILE UNDER NO PRESSURE AT ALL, IN PURSUIT OF PERSISTENT CALLS FOR MASS CLAIMS.

SPECULATION: Ika+Oranje team, ika claimed no result on orange to support the commuter claim. Bit early for that play though, but might be a last ditch move to save themselves from the bad call on the claim.

Narninian: Pretty obv town, just...ugh. Bad plays,but I've said enough about that. His bad play and admittance of said play feels super town.

Don't agree with this stance on Lucian. Only a couple hours had passed since the claim. There was no need to vote him at this point. If cerberus felt like Pika was better off dead, why not just vote her in the first place?

Blah shit. That means both Ozgin and ika could be town if tailor is not bastard.

We should have Ozgin investigate more

Both Pika and Ozgin seem legit to me.

Yet I can't vote. I am not so sure they are both town.

I think it is good I am not voting.

Titus, do you even mafia? I mean, keeping up the tailor speculation at this point seems ridiculous. And does not look good at all after the flip. Still, I don't think Titus is scum, just playing a very bad game here.

Stop saying you will shoot her an shoot her.

YES. Reading multiple pages of discussion of the shot before the actual shot is literally painful.

No, just confirmed not Berlin Undercity Mafia...

I agree. Ozgin, Lucian and Oranje are by no means confirmed town. They are all likely town, but I could see 1+ of them being scum.

Lucian, ozgin is conf town.
You could still be other faction.
VOTE: Lihin

Your insistence on the easy lynch target doesn't look good to me. You keep tunneling on him after all the Pika shenanigans and with a lot of other players that you say nothing about. I think you are scum looking for an easy lynch target to save yourself today. To say nothing of your suspicious Twilight claim and all that Jazz. I still think the best lynch today would be Oranje.

[Toon Fighter]

bah the spoiler quotes broke they were just for reducing the post's lenght, but oh well. It is still legible

[copper223]

Oh, I forgot copper.
You literally said that Mollie was town in your oppinion, stop all this "I never opposed the shot" stuff, because we all knoe you did.

Loving how the lihin wagon consists of only town readsま

Yes and I litterally said you should shoot her anyway despite my read so stop misrepping.

[wgeurts]

Toon, I was the first to start calling lihin out.
And if you accuse me of "finding easy targets" then point out how my case is wrong. Explain, how my case isn't actually a case on scum I've possibly found by scum hunting. Why must it be an "easy target"?
If your going to through that accusation around you better have the arguments to back it up, go ahead and explain how she's town. Impress me.

[Toon Fighter]

Toon, I was the first to start calling lihin out.
And if you accuse me of "finding easy targets" then point out how my case is wrong. Explain, how my case isn't actually a case on scum I've possibly found by scum hunting. Why must it be an "easy target"?
If your going to through that accusation around you better have the arguments to back it up, go ahead and explain how she's town. Impress me.

I didn't say Lihin is town. she might very well be scum. The way Oranje went about voting her is the scummy part. Hence why I think we should lynch Oranje first, he is a higher priority target than Lihin.

[wgeurts]

Copper I want to belive you, however I don't truly know what to make of you. Your a good player so I'm hesitant to actually push you, y accusations are based off stuff I remember reading. However I'll take another look to check what your claiming is right.
Lihin however I'm generally convinced is newb-scum, if she flips scum and not partnered with Berlin mafia it will make you look shadier. You aren't today's lynch, your someone I need to take a really long look at once we've got a little more info.

[Oranje Crush]

I made a fucking huge case twice and voted her, however I was diverted by my partner due to the cop claim and target.
Byw wgeurts is me.
What's wrong with the way I voted her?
You haven't looked at the cases have you?
Nor do you realise I started the lihin push.

[Oranje Crush]

Also, if you don't think she's town what's the problem?
I'm pushing scum, as town should. How about you join us, when she flips Volcano (I doubt she's pika's partner) mafia I will have proven that I'm not in one of the two factions.
I'm town, you got a problem with that?

[Oranje Crush]

Seeing how you guys all need it, I'm going to explain my top three problems with lihin in detail. Ignoring the fact she's not scum hunting and is as fluffy as a cloud.

1.

The "Catch-Up"

:

Partway through reading, commenting on top 3 wagons now (von, toon, vyse):
Vonflare - His posts don't feel like they'd come from scum pov; his pushes (ice particularly) and other posts like his #71+#73 leave him extremely low-hanging fruit and my gut says that scum would not be recklessly making himself look so scummy.
Toon Fighter - Do agree that he looks fairly lurky and low-contribution. Also has yet to address arguments against himself, and wants to put off neighbor claims for some reason. Leaning scummy, would hop on his wagon given choice between these 3.
VysePresident - I like what he does have, especially #1068 and #1273-76. Feels town to me.
VOTE: Toon Fighter while I sort out my thoughts on everybody else.

She starts her catchup with this post, it reeks. So for some reason she decides to look at the top three wagon at that point in time, then proceeds to hop onto the best one by sheeping. Newb scum love saying I agree with this case, then join it with those words. It makes them look like they have actual reasons to join a wagon, whereas they really just want to get on a wagon to get a nice tasty lynch.

I also find the motivation bad, why look at the top three wagons and not just start catching up? I see two possibilities:
1. As town, she's in need of a temporary vote before she makes her own reads during a catch up.
2. As scum, she couldn't give a damn about what happened in the past. She wants to join a wagon with a good prospect of becoming a lynch.

Her following two post back up the second motivation, why? Look at them and I'll explain:

Mostly caught up, still have pages 30-45 left.
UNVOTE: Toon Fighter

Drixx's claim is more believable to me considering ActionDan's claim. I'd rather he not be lynched/vigged today.

Some reason the quotes are swapped around when it comes to post time, please keep in mind the post above this came last.

@ozgin: Toon Fighter literally posted less than half a day ago and gave no indication that he is unable to post. I do not see why this warrants prodding. Also, he's had opportunity to defend himself (his last post was after attacks came in on him).

These two post show that she's following the current situation, however we see no comments or real reads (besides drixx, who I'll get to later.) on watch she thinks from her catchup. She never does, I really believe she hasn't done it at all. At the max she skimmed.
She's got no interest in finding scum possible mistakes during the last pages, she's only focused on who's being accused now.
The unvote is also rather convenient, it happens without reason (the post before it she was still displaying scum read on toon) and the wagon had just started to meet resistance and break down. So Lihin suddenely doesn't think toon's scum anymore and unvotes, she doesn't even switch votes (if she had actually done a catch up I'd expect her to vote someone from something she found during it.) and it's obvious she hasn't found anyone else she finds scummy. Looks to me like she's setting up to go in any direction, hop onto any wagon.

First questions for lihin:
Why did you unvote on toon?
Give a list of your reads on everyone please.

Summed up: "Lihin's more interested in current wagons and suspects than forming her own reads. Scum have no need of doing this and it fits a newb-scum very well. Her claim of catching up also seems bogus."

2.

Ozgin

:
Read these posts, especially the parts I made red:

Molla claimed Miller with a night-skip ability if they have the second highest amount of votes.
Ice claimed: Neighbour day-cop, a day-cop that can only investigate neighbours.
Drixx claimed to be a faction specific bullet-proof.
I claimed Vengilante, a one-shot mix of a vengeful and a vigilante.

I think that was everyone...

In my opinion those claims seem fairly townish, except for the bulletproof claim.

Does Drixx know which faction he is immune to? (not looking for an actual claim of which; just if he knows)

Scum reading Drixx

Mostly caught up, still have pages 30-45 left.
UNVOTE: Toon Fighter

Drixx's claim is more believable to me considering ActionDan's claim. I'd rather he not be lynched/vigged today.

Now he's town, however has reasons.

Just gotten to death's "reaction test". I've looked and it reeks of scum that death doesn't really seem to know what or who he was actually looking for in his reaction test. You're supposed to at least have an idea of what sort of reaction you're looking for when you reaction test? Were just you hoping to draw up whatever most suited your needs on the spot?

Don't like Drixx's defenses which seem to be reactionary counterattacks to whoever is attacking him despite any of their prior actions (attacking a mason?), and his claim is somewhat weak. I think there are better options right now though.

TPTG and others voting Drixx: how do you feel about a death/jackel lynch over Drixx?

Scum read (conveniently with the public opinion) and contradiction 1: she just said drixx claim looked good, now it's suddenly weak.

VOTE: PV
PV lynch is now feeling pretty unappealing to me. Utility lynch that leaves us with hardly any more information, especially if BBmolla nightskip is utilized. Only moving back if nothing else is going to be pushed through.
VOTE: Drixx
Agree with copper's reasoning.

This is probably the best feasible option remaining.

Lets look at this post by copper:

VOTE: Drixx
At least this is a lynch with little downside and my gut read may well be wrong because Drixx willing to lynch a random guy is not sitting well with me, that is clearly suboptimal and you know it.

Yeah this looks really convincing.

I've now got a strong gut feeling that Drixx is town because his name claim lines with my own role.
Jackel is a good target.
UNVOTE: Drixx
VOTE: Jackel

Oh, so now nobodies going for Drixx he's town again. Convenient.

She also lacks reads on everyone else. Also convenient. (Need I say, not scum hunting, sheeping everything and fluffing.)

3.

End Day 1 Play

:
She joined every wagon without a care, town would do this but with caution however her post displayed that she just wanted to lynch someone but didn't care who. That's scum motivation and thinking, you can't deny it.

I am not a neighbor.

Fluff

Molla claimed Miller with a night-skip ability if they have the second highest amount of votes.
Ice claimed: Neighbour day-cop, a day-cop that can only investigate neighbours.
Drixx claimed to be a faction specific bullet-proof.
I claimed Vengilante, a one-shot mix of a vengeful and a vigilante.

I think that was everyone...

In my opinion those claims seem fairly townish, except for the bulletproof claim.
Does Drixx know which faction he is immune to? (not looking for an actual claim of which; just if he knows)

Fluff

Hello all. Going to try to read through the thread immediately. Would like it if someone could give a summary of the most important events so far, however.

Fluff

Like, you were pushing Vyse for not catching up and you let this float around. Why did nobody yell at him/her to step up his game?
The first free posts are terrible.
Let me carry on:

Partway through reading, commenting on top 3 wagons now (von, toon, vyse):
Vonflare - His posts don't feel like they'd come from scum pov; his pushes (ice particularly) and other posts like his #71+#73 leave him extremely low-hanging fruit and my gut says that scum would not be recklessly making himself look so scummy.
Toon Fighter - Do agree that he looks fairly lurky and low-contribution. Also has yet to address arguments against himself, and wants to put off neighbor claims for some reason. Leaning scummy, would hop on his wagon given choice between these 3.
VysePresident - I like what he does have, especially #1068 and #1273-76. Feels town to me.
VOTE: Toon Fighter while I sort out my thoughts on everybody else.

"Reading the game", yet she's focusing on the "current" three wagons. Yeah, this looks really town.
The reasons mentioned are absolute tosh and she jumps on the toon wagon, conveniently the largest wagon, with no reasoning what so ever. It isn't even a naked vote, she ATTEMPTS to explain it. This is a scummy post.

I am not a neighbor.

Fluff

Mostly caught up, still have pages 30-45 left.
UNVOTE: Toon Fighter

Drixx's claim is more believable to me considering ActionDan's claim. I'd rather he not be lynched/vigged today.

"Convienienty caught up enough to find toon fighter scummy and know recent actions and revotes same person to make sure they're on the wagon"
#Scum

@ozgin: Toon Fighter literally posted less than half a day ago and gave no indication that he is unable to post. I do not see why this warrants prodding. Also, he's had opportunity to defend himself (his last post was after attacks came in on him).

This backs up my point, Lihin claims to be catching up yet she looks through the last few pages to vote the main wagon. I'm calling lies here, she full well knows what she's doing and the catch up is her cover.

Then she proceeds to scum read all the public scum reads. The best is yet to come...

SHE FUDGE VOTES EVERYONE LAST SECONDS WAGON HOPPING OFF THE ONE SHE'S ON THE SECOND IT DIES.

Summed up:
1. Using catch up to join main wagon and tries to disguise it as legit.
2. Intentionally looking into current main wagons, not trying to build personal scum reads.
3. Scum reads all public scum reads.
4. Joins every wagon near deadline with horrific reasoning, please ISO her and cry.
5. Oh, she has soooo many contradictions: just read he thoughts on drixx's role.

Look, here are the cases. I voted her with these cases as reasoning, them had to vote pika due to my partner, once luinan blew her brains out I revoted. If you had read you would of seem this, I think your just looking for a nice vote toon and don't really care what happened in the past.
The same reason I'm voting Lihin.