We Didn't Playtest This | Game over, everyone loses

[Drixx]

Then I will trample all but one. The last will be a feather in my cap. Literally.

If you insist on making terrible and illogical play, and you will actually be proud of yourself for it ... then whatever is wrong with you is no small thing.

[deathfisaro]

Actually drawing attention to the vote count was a poor move because it was not too hard to guess who had the double vote once you realize that there's a double voter.
If someone noticed before you, and no discussion came out of it, probably have been good to just let it slide.
If that person made a scene about the vote numbers not matching, it'd be his problem. But you made it your own.

[Titus]

Then I will trample all but one. The last will be a feather in my cap. Literally.

If you insist on making terrible and illogical play, and you will actually be proud of yourself for it ... then whatever is wrong with you is no small thing.

There is nothing illogical about lynching a rolefisher who lies about rolefishing, who was largely suspected D1, who claimed bp (which makes him unlikely to be night killed), who started rolefishing me after Lihin (the hated role) had a VC that made them the default lynch, who has pushed shit cases on other slots and just generally has been an all around scum fuck.

If you are town maybe you will take this as DO NOT ever rolefish Titus when she tells you not to or stop being a general asshole.

You also have been baiting me by calling me illogical most of the day. I did notice.

Do not EVER poke the bear if you cannot handle me.

[Titus]

Actually drawing attention to the vote count was a poor move because it was not too hard to guess who had the double vote once you realize that there's a double voter.
If someone noticed before you, and no discussion came out of it, probably have been good to just let it slide.
If that person made a scene about the vote numbers not matching, it'd be his problem. But you made it your own.

Usually, yes. But I cannot be a town doublevoter immune from all fucking night kills. That's so fucking broken that even a six year old would know it's brolen.

How do scum win? By killing the townies or lynching them? What do you do about an unkillable townie that can out vote you? Nothing. That cannot exist.

So as long as I was hidden, town auto fucking wins. If I was outed and it was obvious like you said; there's no way the treestump illusion would have held.

My BBMolla plan depended on me being available at mylo to secure said extra lynch.
My tiebreaker depended on me being there at a 1 v 1 scenario.

That cannot happen.

Why can that not happen? Scum rolefishing.

[Cerberus v666]

Titus: Why would scum drixx go to all this effort of pointing out the vote issues and isolating you as the person who had a double vote, when he could have instead just told his teammates about it and they could have either planned accordingly, or just killed you? You guys seem to like to describe behavior as anti-town. I think it's pretty damn anti-town to tunnel on someone who doesn't have any scum reason for their behavior.

[Drixx]

Actually drawing attention to the vote count was a poor move because it was not too hard to guess who had the double vote once you realize that there's a double voter.
If someone noticed before you, and no discussion came out of it, probably have been good to just let it slide.
If that person made a scene about the vote numbers not matching, it'd be his problem. But you made it your own.

Yeah, I did ... because

silly me

I trusted Titus to have been honest, and I was legitimately worried that scum might have a politician type role and be able to make X player's vote count for double, and that could lead to bad outcomes. I already posted one example, but here's another:

If BBmolla has claimed truthfully, a scum role allowing scum to assign an extra vote to someone could result in a situation where we accidentally lynch BBmolla instead of triggering the night skip.

If the answer had been what I suspected, because you know ... Titus claimed to still be a stump and all, it would be in our best interests to know such a thing was in the game.

[copper223]

I have been reviewing the Pirate Ika posts, which is the only real indicator we have and what most of our efforts should focus on, and based on the reads they give I think it's actually less likely that the commonwealth is scum, at least Pirate Ika believes them to be town I think.

I also think Titus is not part of the underground Berlin mafia.

In general I tend to buy this setup:

- 2 scumteams with 1 volcano mafia who incinerates players and 1 underground berlin mafia that eviscerates players.

I think it's a bit of a stretch that Drixx claimed silver lining which has to do with werewolves and we then find out that the berlin underground actually eviscerate their victims, so to me either he is BP in the werewolves games or he is part of that team.

It's hard to exclude the second based on Pirate Ika's ISO because their Drixx read is wonky, first they don't think he is scum, then they join and seem gang ho (only to post the opposite in the wrong place), then they ask for the hammer, but in general the fact the pirates wanted to lynch Drixx speaks against them being teammates.

[Titus]

Titus: Why would scum drixx go to all this effort of pointing out the vote issues and isolating you as the person who had a double vote, when he could have instead just told his teammates about it and they could have either planned accordingly, or just killed you? You guys seem to like to describe behavior as anti-town. I think it's pretty damn anti-town to tunnel on someone who doesn't have any scum reason for their behavior.

The scum reason for the rolefishing is obvious. Force me to destump so they can kill me. As long as I was alive, scum needed two scum alive to beat me if my treestump lie was in tact. Scum needed a way to kill me.

If I refused to vote, Drixx would be rolefishing and wagoning my ass because of the mysterious double voter.

Scum had to come after me.

[Drixx]

Titus: Why would scum drixx go to all this effort of pointing out the vote issues and isolating you as the person who had a double vote, when he could have instead just told his teammates about it and they could have either planned accordingly, or just killed you? You guys seem to like to describe behavior as anti-town. I think it's pretty damn anti-town to tunnel on someone who doesn't have any scum reason for their behavior.

Yeah. Pretty much this. Cerberus had played with me a lot before. I'm fairly sure he will attest to the fact that if I were scum and had realized your Treestump claim was BS, I would have just quietly said nothing and then told my scumbuddies about it tonight and you would have just died.

It's only because

I believed your earlier lies

that I was paranoid about scum having the ability to cause problems with voting.

[Titus]

I have been reviewing the Pirate Ika posts, which is the only real indicator we have and what most of our efforts should focus on, and based on the reads they give I think it's actually less likely that the commonwealth is scum, at least Pirate Ika believes them to be town I think.

I also think Titus is not part of the underground Berlin mafia.

In general I tend to buy this setup:

- 2 scumteams with 1 volcano mafia who incinerates players and 1 underground berlin mafia that eviscerates players.

I think it's a bit of a stretch that Drixx claimed silver lining which has to do with werewolves and we then find out that the berlin underground actually eviscerate their victims, so to me either he is BP in the werewolves games or he is part of that team.

It's hard to exclude the second based on Pirate Ika's ISO because their Drixx read is wonky, first they don't think he is scum, then they join and seem gang ho (only to post the opposite in the wrong place), then they ask for the hammer, but in general the fact the pirates wanted to lynch Drixx speaks against them being teammates.

A flip flopping read vascillating between extremes is indicative of scum buddies.

But hey, what do I know, I am just the townie who set a trap for scum they fell into?

You may not like my style but Drixx is scum.

[Titus]

Titus: Why would scum drixx go to all this effort of pointing out the vote issues and isolating you as the person who had a double vote, when he could have instead just told his teammates about it and they could have either planned accordingly, or just killed you? You guys seem to like to describe behavior as anti-town. I think it's pretty damn anti-town to tunnel on someone who doesn't have any scum reason for their behavior.

Yeah. Pretty much this. Cerberus had played with me a lot before. I'm fairly sure he will attest to the fact that if I were scum and had realized your Treestump claim was BS, I would have just quietly said nothing and then told my scumbuddies about it tonight and you would have just died.

It's only because

I believed your earlier lies

that I was paranoid about scum having the ability to cause problems with voting.

There was no reason to believe my treestump claim was BS yesterday. None at all. You had to try to fish me or get me lynched to win.

I will be damned if I let you win.

I know wverything I will type will be seen in that vein but I really don't fucking care.

I have never been more confident short of an unquestionable cop guilty in a open setup. I don't care what I have to do, I will fucking get you lynched.

[Cerberus v666]

Titus: Why would scum drixx go to all this effort of pointing out the vote issues and isolating you as the person who had a double vote, when he could have instead just told his teammates about it and they could have either planned accordingly, or just killed you? You guys seem to like to describe behavior as anti-town. I think it's pretty damn anti-town to tunnel on someone who doesn't have any scum reason for their behavior.

The scum reason for the rolefishing is obvious. Force me to destump so they can kill me. As long as I was alive, scum needed two scum alive to beat me if my treestump lie was in tact. Scum needed a way to kill me.

If I refused to vote, Drixx would be rolefishing and wagoning my ass because of the mysterious double voter.

Scum had to come after me.

Stop saying rolefishing. That's not what I said was done. Stop coloring the interpretation of your response when taken out of context by using words that mean something other than what I said.

With that said, that still doesn't explain why it makes sense to push this into a 1v1 between the two of you, when any questions or suspicions he may have had could be answered simply by letting days pass, or simply by assuming you must be lying about being a treestump or about whether or not you had destumped and simply killing you.

[Drixx]

But hey, what do I know, I am just the townie who set a trap for scum they fell into?

You may not like my style but Drixx is scum.

Oh, now it's a trap instead of you just losing all ability to be rational and letting your ego and emotions go crazy? LOL.

Also, I'm not scum. Thank you for confirming that you are just a bag of hot air. I have absolutely no idea why anyone on this site thinks of you as a good player. It was a huge mistake for me to give the opinion of other people any weight in how I viewed you, since that led to me believing your bullshit treestump claim.

I've seen newbies in their first game who could play circles around you. The fact that you think I'm scum is like icing on the stupid cake.

[Cerberus v666]

I have been reviewing the Pirate Ika posts, which is the only real indicator we have and what most of our efforts should focus on, and based on the reads they give I think it's actually less likely that the commonwealth is scum, at least Pirate Ika believes them to be town I think.

I also think Titus is not part of the underground Berlin mafia.

In general I tend to buy this setup:

- 2 scumteams with 1 volcano mafia who incinerates players and 1 underground berlin mafia that eviscerates players.

I think it's a bit of a stretch that Drixx claimed silver lining which has to do with werewolves and we then find out that the berlin underground actually eviscerate their victims, so to me either he is BP in the werewolves games or he is part of that team.

It's hard to exclude the second based on Pirate Ika's ISO because their Drixx read is wonky, first they don't think he is scum, then they join and seem gang ho (only to post the opposite in the wrong place), then they ask for the hammer, but in general the fact the pirates wanted to lynch Drixx speaks against them being teammates.

A flip flopping read vascillating between extremes is indicative of scum buddies.

But hey, what do I know, I am just the townie who set a trap for scum they fell into?

You may not like my style but Drixx is scum.

What? Now this was deliberate baiting of scum, and not some grand master plan for a town auto win?

[Titus]

Titus: Why would scum drixx go to all this effort of pointing out the vote issues and isolating you as the person who had a double vote, when he could have instead just told his teammates about it and they could have either planned accordingly, or just killed you? You guys seem to like to describe behavior as anti-town. I think it's pretty damn anti-town to tunnel on someone who doesn't have any scum reason for their behavior.

The scum reason for the rolefishing is obvious. Force me to destump so they can kill me. As long as I was alive, scum needed two scum alive to beat me if my treestump lie was in tact. Scum needed a way to kill me.

If I refused to vote, Drixx would be rolefishing and wagoning my ass because of the mysterious double voter.

Scum had to come after me.

Stop saying rolefishing. That's not what I said was done. Stop coloring the interpretation of your response when taken out of context by using words that mean something other than what I said.

With that said, that still doesn't explain why it makes sense to push this into a 1v1 between the two of you, when any questions or suspicions he may have had could be answered simply by letting days pass, or simply by assuming you must be lying about being a treestump or about whether or not you had destumped and simply killing you.

He did not push a 1 v 1. He got caught with his hand in the cookue jar and I am riasting him alive. You are doing the equivalent of asking why did the scumteam send Adam to the kill, they send Brian and no guilty. So why not send Brian? Duh because Drixx did not plan to piss me off with his actions of trying to smoke out the double voter.

There was no reason at the end of Day 1 to believe I was not a treestump. I was literally confirmed as treestump to most by my self vote.

[Drixx]

I will be damned if I let you win.

I know wverything I will type will be seen in that vein but I really don't fucking care.

I have never been more confident short of an unquestionable cop guilty in a open setup. I don't care what I have to do, I will fucking get you lynched.

If town wins, I win. If you are town, are you admitting that you are now intentionally playing against your wincon just to spite me? I do believe that's against the

sitewide

rules.

{OOC} You should know that your posts have come across as increasingly disturbed and psychologically unstable. Text doesn't convey tone, but there are genuine warning signs in your last several posts. For the sake of yourself and the rest of us, it would be really good if you could maybe take a break and calm down. I say this out of genuine concern. {OOC}

[Titus]

I have been reviewing the Pirate Ika posts, which is the only real indicator we have and what most of our efforts should focus on, and based on the reads they give I think it's actually less likely that the commonwealth is scum, at least Pirate Ika believes them to be town I think.

I also think Titus is not part of the underground Berlin mafia.

In general I tend to buy this setup:

- 2 scumteams with 1 volcano mafia who incinerates players and 1 underground berlin mafia that eviscerates players.

I think it's a bit of a stretch that Drixx claimed silver lining which has to do with werewolves and we then find out that the berlin underground actually eviscerate their victims, so to me either he is BP in the werewolves games or he is part of that team.

It's hard to exclude the second based on Pirate Ika's ISO because their Drixx read is wonky, first they don't think he is scum, then they join and seem gang ho (only to post the opposite in the wrong place), then they ask for the hammer, but in general the fact the pirates wanted to lynch Drixx speaks against them being teammates.

A flip flopping read vascillating between extremes is indicative of scum buddies.

But hey, what do I know, I am just the townie who set a trap for scum they fell into?

You may not like my style but Drixx is scum.

What? Now this was deliberate baiting of scum, and not some grand master plan for a town auto win?

Both. We win if I get to endgame with one scum alive.

If it fails, it will be because scum fished me.

[Titus]

OoC: I am fine. Thank you very much. It's perfectly rational to be pissed off at you for taking what should be a cakewalk and turning it into a hard game full of nonsense. No I am not unstable. I will fucking murder you and wear a feather in my cap is NOT meant iterally. If you thought that, you havemore problems reading tone than I do.

BiC: I do not believe you are town. I just said that.

Now I am off to bed.

If any of you have the ability to sit back and think about what scum would have to do to win this game with my claim as of Night 1, you should realize precisely why Drixx is scum.

If not, this game has ceased to be aboutvlogic but more about who sings Barney songs the best.

[Drixx]

Titus, you outed yourself. I believed that you were a treestump who could de-stump and get a double vote. I didn't believe you would have done so today. I already told you what I was paranoid about.

Think of the sheer stupidity of what you're saying. You're saying that you were universally viewed as a confirmed treestump at the end of day one. This is backed up by the fact that you weren't killed. Then you say that I must be scum because I noticed that we had too many votes for how many players we had, especially with one player being a treestump, and I suggested that we have people self vote so we could see who had the extra votes.

Long before you outed yourself, I explained my theory of why those extra votes existed.

You pushing this as far as you did was completely irrational and unnecessary. You are also being ridiculously self-contradictory.

And no, it's not at all rational to refuse to own up to your part of this mess. You could have stopped the 1v1 fight at any time and you chose not to. You don't get to pretend like you're some innocent saint who did nothing wrong.

Meanwhile, you are going to come after me even though it's illogical, and you are giving the scum a huge smokescreen and a free pass to get through day 2 without having to commit nearly as much that might be later used to find them as they otherwise would.

I'm generally a pretty creative thinker and I cannot think of any way you could possibly have played this situation any worse than you did. It takes real skill to misplay in the worst possible way at every point of reference.

[Cerberus v666]

OoC: I am fine. Thank you very much. It's perfectly rational to be pissed off at you for taking what should be a cakewalk and turning it into a hard game full of nonsense. No I am not unstable. I will fucking murder you and wear a feather in my cap is NOT meant iterally. If you thought that, you havemore problems reading tone than I do.

BiC: I do not believe you are town. I just said that.

Now I am off to bed.

If any of you have the ability to sit back and think about what scum would have to do to win this game with my claim as of Night 1, you should realize precisely why Drixx is scum.

If not, this game has ceased to be aboutvlogic but more about who sings Barney songs the best.

...all scum has to do is assume you're always able to vote when making their plans. Then they don't get blindsided by you suddenly wrecking them.

Yeah, I don't buy your arguments. I'm also going to sleep though. Let's see what's developed in the morning!

[copper223]

@Lihin

oh man the ability to force players to post more and possibly give them a conditional hated modifier, what an incredibly reasonable scum role

So you think forcing lurking players to post more is pro-town (or anti-scum).
Then why didn't you use it on PereV D1 to either force him to post more which helps town, or get him replaced fast which leads to the replacement posting more than PV ever has which would help town?

Now the easy answer is "oh it's only 1 shot". As town, your best use for that 1 shot was to use it on a random Commonwealth who is likely going to pick up the prod (as stated by yourself), to confirm your power to hopefully dismantle your wagon?
Would other people who receive this role PM think "oh I'm going to use this to save myself because town wincon is simply out-surviving scum and I'll be super useful as VT in a vanillaless game"? Quite the opposite.

And if you actually say it's 1 shot, I'll find you extremely scummy because

i am a town double day foreman. i can select a player and cut their prod/replace deadlines in half (reduced from 72/24 to 36/12) for the rest of the day phase effective immediately. if they get prodded any time during a day i select them, they gain hated modifier for said day. confirmation is coming in the form of the commonwealth being prodded.

This is like the most detailed role claim ever and ZERO mention of how many shots, meaning not shot limited. If it was shot limited, I'm pretty sure someone who is nice enough to do a simple math like 72 / 2 and 24 / 2 for us would have written 2 self explanatory words "one shot" in a claim that covers the entirety of the role.

With 1 shot case covered, moving on to unlimited shot (every day phase or something) case (which I find far more likely given the effectiveness of the power and missing shot limit in the claim)
What incredibly reasonable town benefit did you find in not using that power on PV D1? On anyone, really. As town, your mindset is "meh, I'll just not use my power today, other people will probably carry me while I disappear and do my own things"?


I'm very unhappy with Lihin's reaction to his wagon, as much as Jackel's.

[Titus]

OoC: I am fine. Thank you very much. It's perfectly rational to be pissed off at you for taking what should be a cakewalk and turning it into a hard game full of nonsense. No I am not unstable. I will fucking murder you and wear a feather in my cap is NOT meant iterally. If you thought that, you havemore problems reading tone than I do.

BiC: I do not believe you are town. I just said that.

Now I am off to bed.

If any of you have the ability to sit back and think about what scum would have to do to win this game with my claim as of Night 1, you should realize precisely why Drixx is scum.

If not, this game has ceased to be aboutvlogic but more about who sings Barney songs the best.

...all scum has to do is assume you're always able to vote when making their plans. Then they don't get blindsided by you suddenly wrecking them.

Yeah, I don't buy your arguments. I'm also going to sleep though. Let's see what's developed in the morning!

In the morning, I will walk you step by step through my thought processes and why all roads must lead to Drixx scum.

And yes Drixx, I do agree that your level of stupidity if town is unparrallelled.

[copper223]

@Lihin
please reply to the above.

@fisaro
I think Pirate Ika was convinced you were volcano mafia, you comparing Jackel98 to Lihin is making me think this could be another mislynch you found, but the points you raise are legitimate so this discussion is promising either way.

[Narninian]

VOTE: Drixx
I was never a fucking treestump.

Reasonable. She didn't want the kills redirected to her, for example.

[Drixx]

OoC: I am fine. Thank you very much. It's perfectly rational to be pissed off at you for taking what should be a cakewalk and turning it into a hard game full of nonsense. No I am not unstable. I will fucking murder you and wear a feather in my cap is NOT meant iterally. If you thought that, you havemore problems reading tone than I do.

BiC: I do not believe you are town. I just said that.

Now I am off to bed.

If any of you have the ability to sit back and think about what scum would have to do to win this game with my claim as of Night 1, you should realize precisely why Drixx is scum.

If not, this game has ceased to be aboutvlogic but more about who sings Barney songs the best.

...all scum has to do is assume you're always able to vote when making their plans. Then they don't get blindsided by you suddenly wrecking them.

Yeah, I don't buy your arguments. I'm also going to sleep though. Let's see what's developed in the morning!

In the morning, I will walk you step by step through my thought processes and why all roads must lead to Drixx scum.

And yes Drixx, I do agree that your level of stupidity if town is unparrallelled.

So let me get this straight. You expected your treestump fake claim to fool the scum team, but the fact that it fooled me and I was looking for a reason why the extra votes were there is a complete shock to you and makes my "level of stupidity" unparalleled? You can't have it both ways. Either your play was good enough to fool scum, and thus should also have fooled me, in which case me being paranoid and looking for some explanation makes perfect sense... or your play wasn't good enough to fool scum, in which case there was no reason for you to escalate a huge fight with me and certainly no reason for you to be angry with me.

You really can't have it both ways. So go ahead and make up your mind. Either your play was brilliant in which case it's perfectly reasonable for me to be trying to figure out if there's some kind of politician role at play ... or your play wasn't brilliant and you didn't expect it to fool anyone. You can't say it was so brilliant and it fooled scum while at the same time berating me for

believing you

.

I want to say that the Law of the Excluded Middle applies here.

Let S = Your claim was brilliant and fooled scum (and me).

The law of the Excluded middle says the following: It is either true that S, or it is not true that S. You're trying to argue that S is true in order to paint me as scum, but then you want to argue Not S in order to say that I should have realized and not been trying to figure out the mystery votes. I think the Law of Non Contradiction applies too. We're talking very basic level elementary bedrock laws of logic here.