[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[TierShift]

I just think it's not that much fun when put into practice. The joker has no incentive to keep his identity hidden (and can't) and just sides with the faction that's doing best. Random kills aren't fun, btw. Nothing to screw up your day as extremely well-playing scum as dying due to random luck.

[JasonWazza]

So Is this a workable concept?

And yes, people who receives parcels will be notified what they received.

Then town might be the only ones that honestly want the Joker around, because the Poison can be used as a second lynch (Person with poison claims, town votes to save or not save, if they aren't saved (scum would have the only slight motive to do this) then joker claims and says who had the heal)

[TierShift]

joker doesn't know who got the parcels, though.

[JasonWazza]

joker doesn't know who got the parcels, though.

Simple, Someone dies (bomb), someone claims poison, his third parcel is the heal.

[TierShift]

During day Joker creates 3 parcels and send it to random people.

He doesn't know who he sends the parcels to

[JasonWazza]

Must have missed that, yeah then that's pretty shit if he can't even control it.

[DeltaFlame]

Reinforcements

This is a concept that is based on using backups as opposed to regular roles. While there are less roles that are active at a time, it is harder for Mafia to get rid of these roles.

Role list:

Godfather
2-Shot Strongman
Mafia Universal Backup

Cop
Doctor
Backup Cop
Backup Doctor
Universal Backup
Vanilla Townie x4

Mechanics:
[*]Daystart
[*]Backups are not informed of their role
[*]Backup roles are revealed upon death

Possibly confusing things I have to clarify:
The Universal Backup will assume the position of a role as soon as the role

AND

its backup are dead. E.g. The Universal Backup will become a cop when both the cop and the backup cop are dead.


So, thoughts?

[TierShift]

I like it, but I'd get rid of the framer or the godfather. You don't need two counters to a cop. That makes it so the results cannot be trusted at all. One counter seems appropriate, so just a framer, I think.

I like your idea of not telling the backups that they are backups. They need to flip as backup though.

[DeltaFlame]

I like it, but I'd get rid of the framer or the godfather. You don't need two counters to a cop. That makes it so the results cannot be trusted at all. One counter seems appropriate, so just a framer, I think.

I like your idea of not telling the backups that they are backups. They need to flip as backup though.

Replaced Framer with a Goon.
I do know that I would have to announce that a player was a backup upon death, otherwise it would be considered to be bastard modding.


Having a Framer instead of a Godfather would also be a setup to consider now that I think about it, so I'll just allow for both to be possible (but only one to be used per game)

[TierShift]

No, cops need to know which one is in play or they get reeeaally weak.

[DeltaFlame]

No, cops need to know which one is in play or they get reeeaally weak.

Fixed.

[TierShift]

I'd suggest just using one. This unnecessarily complicates the setup and makes the results of each game harder to compare.

Choose the gf if you want simplicity; framer if you want a wifom element.

[DeltaFlame]

I'd suggest just using one. This unnecessarily complicates the setup and makes the results of each game harder to compare.

Choose the gf if you want simplicity; framer if you want a wifom element.

I think I would like to sample both before I make my choice.

[BBmolla]

Role list:
Godfather/Framer
2-Shot Strongman
Mafia Goon
Cop
Doctor
Backup Cop
Backup Doctor
Universal Backup
Vanilla Townie x4

Is it Godfather or Framer? Do mafia choose or is it random?

The big issue I see is that you literally have five power roles for the town. And if the 2-shot Strongman dies, the mafia are basically fucked.

If you eventually only want one, having a Godfather is probably better than having a Framer cause it makes Cops question the innocents. If cops don't question the innocents you can ltierally go into day 2, massclaim and have like 6 confirmed town.

Maybe make Mafia Goon a Mafia Backup, who takes on the role of the first mafia to die.

[TierShift]

I'd suggest just using one. This unnecessarily complicates the setup and makes the results of each game harder to compare.

Choose the gf if you want simplicity; framer if you want a wifom element.

I think I would like to sample both before I make my choice.

it's not really going to run that often.

@bbmolla: the advantage of keeping backups hidden is that massclaim doesn't work.

[DeltaFlame]

@bbmolla: the advantage of keeping backups hidden is that massclaim doesn't work.

This is the reason I was considering hiding the information from the backups.

[wgeurts]

Cornershop

1 Mafia Tailor
1 Mafia Backup-Tailor

1 Cop
1 1-Shot Desperado
5 VT's

• Tailor makes town show up as "not town" and "not town" show up as "town" on inspection.
  
• Mafia have a vengeful kill on first mafia death.
  
• Desperado can target someone during the day, if they are mafia the target dies however if they target town they die.
  
• Mafia have day-talk.

[Otolia]

It seems so much in favor of Mafia that I wouldn't bother playing it. Chance of Cop and Tailor targeting the same person : 1 / (Nb of townies + Nb of Mafioso - 1)² or 1 / 49 on N1, 1 / 25 on N2, 1 / 9 on N3. Doesn't look significant enough to alter the dynamic of a 7-2 Mountainous. And the Desperado is a lesser Vig since it's just one shot with a considerable drawback. And Mafia have Day-talk.

[TierShift]

Otolia, your math is wrong. It assumes a specific person, while it can be any person. The chance of targeting the same person is actually 1 in [amount of players]. So 1 in 9 for N1, 1 in 7 (likely) for N2, etc.

Anyway, tailor plus vengekill is much too strong. Take away tailor and replace cop with tracker and you got yourself a setup.

[TierShift]

Desperado>vig btw

[wgeurts]

I rethought the setup while cycling home:

Game of Frauds

2 Mafia Tailors

1 Cop
1 Deputy
1 Desperado
4 VT's

• Mafia have a venge-kill if lynched or "desperado'd".
  
• Mafia don't have day-talk.
  
• Tailor makes a player that would appear "Town" as "Not-Town" or a player that would appear as "Not-Town" as "Town" on inspection.
  
• Tailor can't take night kill and "tailor" at the same time, unless one mafia remains.
  
• Tailors can target self at the cost of not being able to take a night-kill, even if only one tailor remains.
  
• Deputy becomes a cop if the cop dies.
  
• Desperado can target a player during the day. If that player is mafia they die and if the target is town the desperado dies.

This setup is now a game about choosing wether to frame people or make themselves appear innocent at the cost of not taking a night-kill. If only one mafia remains he can target himself to look innocent sacrificing the night kill or target another player with the tailor and take the night-kill with the risk of a cop targeting him.
The desperado makes it all better with this paranoia.

[wgeurts]

Actually, slight scum nerf.
I rethought the setup while cycling home:

Game of Frauds

1 Mafia Tailor
1 Mafia Backup-Tailor

1 Cop
1 Deputy
1 1-Shot Desperado
4 VT's

• Mafia have a venge-kill if lynched or "desperado'd".
  
• Mafia don't have day-talk.
  
• Tailor makes a player that would appear "Town" as "Not-Town" or a player that would appear as "Not-Town" as "Town" on inspection.
  
• Tailor can't take night kill and "tailor" at the same time, unless one mafia remains.
  
• Tailors can target self at the cost of not being able to take a night-kill. Overrules the "can take both" rule above.
  
• Deputy becomes a cop if the cop dies.
  
• Desperado can target a player during the day. If that player is mafia they die and if the target is town the desperado dies.

[TierShift]

just get rid of the tailors already.

[wgeurts]

Explanation for everything:
The desperado means that a vig won't accidentally kill a cop. However the penalty of loosing a town is still there (and he could confirm town with it potentially, if he claims before the shot and dies the people will know that his target is town.)
The deputy allows the cop to survive a little longer, 1-Shot BP would be too weak however.
If one mafia remains he can gamble between framing and killing with the risk of being targeted by or cop or not killing and looking innocent.
The venge-kill can be used to kill a claimed cop if a cop claims guilty on someone, it also makes an otherwise near impossible situation a little more possible to win as scum. If you think it's not that powerful.

[wgeurts]

Tailors aren't that bad, it's basically just weakening the cop. It also makes for some fun speculation.