We Didn't Playtest This | Game over, everyone loses

[Cerberus v666]

Also a reminder to Titus/Vyse/anyone who wants to just delay the super likely lynch to allow time for more discussion: We have twilight after we see the flip to spend talking. These conversations can be carried on into the evening.

[Titus]

@Cerebus, I think it's

you

that's having trouble understanding context.

He says he thinks Lihin is scum. He says he doesn't want Lihin lynched, because then he would be next. He'd rather not be dead, so he'd rather not lynch scum.

Ergo, he's stating he'd rather be alive than find scum.

Also, why do you think that your alignment has any bearing on Lihin/Drixx.

I agree with everything else you said.


P-edit: I generally do not hammer when people want to talk.

[Cerberus v666]

That's not what he said though Titus. He's assuming that town will all follow your case, in the event of a lihin flip as scum, and lynch him next, and that he hopes town doesn't just blindly follow you, because he'd rather be alive and hunting scum than dead, though it would be satisfying to be able to laugh at you for being wrong. That's...what he meant. Maybe he didn't express it well. Maybe I know him well enough to understand what he means.

The relevance is I'm questioning your case against him, which could be construed as me attempting to prevent a wagon on him. You call him scum for pressuring you into revealing your gambit(which I don't believe he actually did, but that's a different argument), while simultaneously using said pressure to derail the lihin wagon. That's the crux of it right? SO, leaving aside the fact that I don't agree with you on the first part there, where you were backed into a corner and had no choice but to reveal, as well as disagreeing with you on the town vs scum motivations for pointing out the discrepancies...we're left with him using the vote issue to derail the lihin wagon. He specifically asked people *not* voting to vote somewhere, anywhere. That doesn't derail a wagon. If the votes aren't on anything, and everyone self votes(as someone suggested, I don't think it was Drixx though), the wagon is preserved.

Anyways, this is back to that stupid argument. I just wanted to point out how you somehow ignored the overall meaning behind all of his posts recently.

[Cerberus v666]

Okay. Let's talk. Let's pick a new topic. Not Titus/Drixx/Lihin related. How about the low hanging fruit, vonflare, the one who seems to have developed some scum reads on him. I don't really have the time to ISO him and figure out why there were scum reads, but people do keep pushing him as a potential lynch target. Can someone who's in that camp reiterate the case, or at least remind me who it was who had a case against him?

[Titus]

@Cerebus, I don't consider all questioning of a Drixx wagon as possible scumbuddies to be clear. Directly saying that you think Drixx is town doesn't mean anything regarding your alignment, particularly because you clearly articulated what you thought were comprehension issues.

If he had actually just said he hoped town wouldn't blindly follow, I wouldn't have said that it looked as scummy.

Anyway, moving on...

I'm not so sure about the push on vonflare. Vonflare was lurking but TF has fewer posts and less memorable stances. :shrug:

Your thoughts on OC?

[Ozgin]

@Cerberus - The latter - I doubt anyone scummier than Lihin is going to get wagon'd or lynched today.

[Titus]

@Ozgin, who do you think is scummier than Lihin?

[Cuttlefish]

Vote Count 2.08

Lihin (12)

- Cerberus v666, Om of the Nom, Boonskiies, deathfisaro, Oranje Crush, Bulbasaur Commonwealth, Narninian, Drixx, LucianRoy, ChriVi, VysePresident, Ozgin

Oranje Crush (3)

- Toon Fighter, BBmolla, Three-Pronged Trouser God

Drixx (2)

- Titus

VysePresident (2)

- PeregrineV, copper223

Cerberus v666 (1)

- Magua

Not Voting (3)

: ActionDan, vonflare, Lihin

With 23 votes in play, it takes 13 to lynch.

Deadline falls in (expired on 2015-04-02 10:05:14).

ActionDan and Lihin have been prodded.

[Ozgin]

@Ozgin, who do you think is scummier than Lihin?

The person who I'll be investigating tonight

[God of Power Outlets]

dis is painful i might just lolololol hammer.

[Titus]

@Ozgin, who do you think is scummier than Lihin?

The person who I'll be investigating tonight

Ahh, so you're the investigate scummy type.

The other type is investigating the nulls. If I knew you were that type, I wouldn't have asked.

[Titus]

dis is painful i might just lolololol hammer.

Why is it painful? Why the rush?

[LucianRoy]

I still don't get why we're lynching an inactive.
It's just bad play to do so.

[ActionDan]

Hi. still ok with dis lynch

[Titus]

I still don't get why we're lynching an inactive.
It's just bad play to do so.

This is wrong. Someone who lurks after being scummy plus having a scummy role claim is a decent lynch. We lose little if the slot is town and gain plenty if the slot is scum. My biggest issue with Lihin's claim is who she used it on. Why on BC? Why not pick ooohhh PV who everyone thinks is a lurksack?

Second, it sends a message to town and scum alike. Lurking will not be tolerated. That gives us a more complete picture for the future.

Third, Lihin being scum and no strong counterwagon emerging tells us things. If Lihin's town (meaning I was wrong on her), then we all collectively know to backup and reassess.

[God of Power Outlets]

140 pages says it all. I'm a do it

[LucianRoy]

Do it! Do it!

We can discuss in twilight.

[LucianRoy]

I'm torn, I really don't know if this is a good lynch, but I also want to see the flip at the same time.

[deathfisaro]

I still don't get why we're lynching an inactive.
It's just bad play to do so.

I think Lihin's still alive because he's inactive.
Nobody's found any slightest townread from him and the resistance to the wagon is actually Lihin lurking too hardcore to be around to interact at all.

[Cerberus v666]

@Cerebus, I don't consider all questioning of a Drixx wagon as possible scumbuddies to be clear. Directly saying that you think Drixx is town doesn't mean anything regarding your alignment, particularly because you clearly articulated what you thought were comprehension issues.

If he had actually just said he hoped town wouldn't blindly follow, I wouldn't have said that it looked as scummy.

Anyway, moving on...

I'm not so sure about the push on vonflare. Vonflare was lurking but TF has fewer posts and less memorable stances. :shrug:

Your thoughts on OC?

At first I felt OC was super likely to be scum, way back in twilight, immediately after his claim, I said he was either stupid town or obvscum. I've come around a bit on this, because the commuter role in and of itself is very town, and it's a confirmable role, and because of his play today. Pika connecting himself to OC, and confirming that his attempt to perform an action on him failed, makes me feel it's more likely that he's town than scum, depending on the timing. I need to look back at it and see if he claimed before Ogzin started talking about having Lucian kill him in terms which clearly show any scum they've been copped and are not long for the world. If he did the role and target claim before Ogzin spoke up, it's more likely OC is scum, and partners with Pika, who was attempting to support OC's claim. If it occurred after, OC is more likely town, or at least not aligned with the same faction as Pika, and they were simply taking the opportunity to confuse the town more and perhaps spur us into lynching OC on the basis of the connection between them that they created.

Meta question: Would Pika, having been outed as scum, be bold enough to make clear connections between themselves and another member of their team on the assumption that town would think such a play was TOO obvious, and there was no way the player in question was actually scum?

@Cerberus - The latter - I doubt anyone scummier than Lihin is going to get wagon'd or lynched today.

Hmm. SO the only person scummier than lihin is the person you're going to investigate? noted.

[LucianRoy]

I think bulba mentioned that Pika was voting OC before they got the cop guilty.
I haven't double-checked this, but I'm taking his word.

[Drixx]

@Drixx, you're stating that you'd rather be alive than find scum. That's pretty shockingly scummy. Add that in with your total refusal to actually take a hard stance on anyone not named Titus, Lihin or Drixx, you look pretty scummy.

Also, I have enough "rivals". I was kinda hoping the rivalry bullshit was dead with Pika.

@Cooper, I'm leaning towards playing a Barbarian my first play through. So many new classes though. The Cipher sounds pretty badass. Attacking people with their minds.

Drixx is really tired of Titus lying. Drixx said that he would rather "be alive

and finding scum

than be dead and vindicated". Drixx doesn't believe that Titus made an honest mistake. Drixx thinks that perhaps Lynch All Liars ought to be wrapped around Titus' kneck until she's lynched.

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

This amused Drixx. Please post more amusing things. Thanks in advance. XOXOXO. Love, Drixx.

No, seriously. Reads. Now, if not soon-ish.

- He says playing scum is telling a story, he has sticked with copper is scum from the start of the game and never changed his tune on this, including when I claimed investigative, he did change his vote to BRantz and say he was dumb (dumb not to see I claimed and that scumreading me was a bad move at that time is my take) but still continued to scumread me after, probably bolstered by so many willing to lynch Jackel98. For most of yesterday he never clearly explained why he was scumreading me and as I said trying to discuss the actual case he made is not possible because it's basically postulated as a giant gut read with words used as window-dressing.

Funny how you claim that vyse has stuck with copper-scum from day one, yet you have been similarly implacable on your read on us.

I am.

Okay, I think I do, now, too. I think.

So that means because we went for the alternative option (shoot Pika now, give me BP and give us a daylynch yet), you want to let me lose my BP so I die tomorrow? Ohk, thanks.

No, that's not what he meant. Since Lucian's dayvig is gone there's no real usage to that plan anymore beyond getting two potential scumlynches in a row (or, as Titus claims, a MyLo rescue).

Oh and Lihin's claim would be more plausible if she picked PV who was wagoned for lurking. Having a little/no content spot replaced is good. Force replacing a three headed hydra with awesome scumhunting power. Bad.

I'm either glad you think so highly of me as well, or figure you're talking about the first and third evos.

You are basically saying that scumhunting you is more likely to make me scum, what it makes more likely is that your scumread of me is based on self preservation.

...No. The fact that you are reaching to find any reason to maintain your scumread on me is what makes you more likely scum.

Bulb said it best.

This makes me want to vote vonflare. How do you encourage someone to join a wagon that's more meaningul and tell the town to consolidate and then recommend the wagon that you are NOT on?
With ika being scum, vonflare looks like a reluctant bus.

I could buy this, and I'm very happy that someone else is thinking von-scum.

Except that what you're doing is not scumhunting. What it is is continually justifying a static read that you never had a good reason to have in the first place. You don't bother to reconsider it. You just come up with new ways why you hold it. Static reads are more indicative of scum than town. Ergo, you having a static read on us for no good reason equals likely scum. And you trying to discredit our read on you by saying that it's based on self preservation is ridiculous, because it would require us to be, I don't know, actually in danger of being lynched by you, instead of being a name you just throw out when someone asks you who your scumreads are.

@Bulbasaur

- You were scummy yesterday and still are with this catch-up posting style, get updated with the game and post about what is happening now instead of being able to modify what you are going to say after the facts happen by selecting the quotes you like.

- Why did you ignore my response to your slot's question about Pirate Ika? Because it did not fit the narrative?

- I did not jump on Vyse, I have had a scumread on Vyse for god knows how long and the points I make when I vote him are the same, unanswered, that I made previously, I said I was going to make a case on you guys after spending my time on the pirates and some of the reads I found when reviewing their ISO made me question my Bulbasaur read, once again you claim my read on you is stale when it's clearly dynamic, you are just ignoring the posts that don't fit with your BS.

DOn't you dare start shitting on people for being unable to have time to catch up. ALso, if you haven't noticed (which I wonder at this point), neither BUlb nor myself actually try to read ahead so that our thoughts are relatively untainted by new developments. There might be some times where P-EDITs have new info, but that's not often.

Bulb might not have seen it...?

And yet you're still pushing us as scum fairly hard and with a kind of "BTW, everyong, BC's still scum" attitude? One change (which is honestly miniscule as far as changes go) does not always a dynamic read make.

(points answered in order)

@Bulbasaur
Also a scumflip is irrelevant for reads? Noted bois and girls (too use Ivy's posting style).

What? Sometimes scumflips don't move reads. You got a problem with that?

I'm at about page 135. With my laptop gone Bulb's probably more caught up than me, now!

(we'll also try to be synched and stuff when I get my laptop back, promise!)

-Ivy

[Drixx]

That's not what he said though Titus. He's assuming that town will all follow your case, in the event of a lihin flip as scum, and lynch him next, and that he hopes town doesn't just blindly follow you, because he'd rather be alive and hunting scum than dead, though it would be satisfying to be able to laugh at you for being wrong. That's...what he meant. Maybe he didn't express it well. Maybe I know him well enough to understand what he means.

The relevance is I'm questioning your case against him, which could be construed as me attempting to prevent a wagon on him. You call him scum for pressuring you into revealing your gambit(which I don't believe he actually did, but that's a different argument), while simultaneously using said pressure to derail the lihin wagon. That's the crux of it right? SO, leaving aside the fact that I don't agree with you on the first part there, where you were backed into a corner and had no choice but to reveal, as well as disagreeing with you on the town vs scum motivations for pointing out the discrepancies...we're left with him using the vote issue to derail the lihin wagon. He specifically asked people *not* voting to vote somewhere, anywhere. That doesn't derail a wagon. If the votes aren't on anything, and everyone self votes(as someone suggested, I don't think it was Drixx though), the wagon is preserved.

Anyways, this is back to that stupid argument. I just wanted to point out how you somehow ignored the overall meaning behind all of his posts recently.

Drixx greatly appreciates people who are rational and apply logic. Drixx loves this post so much that he wants to make babies with it.

[Drixx]

Drixx also wants to point out to Ozgin that

He

has been using pronouns throughout all of

his

third person posts. Drixx simply has not been using

them

as subjects beginning a sentence.