We Didn't Playtest This | Game over, everyone loses

[Narninian]

@Cerebus, I don't consider all questioning of a Drixx wagon as possible scumbuddies to be clear. Directly saying that you think Drixx is town doesn't mean anything regarding your alignment, particularly because you clearly articulated what you thought were comprehension issues.

If he had actually just said he hoped town wouldn't blindly follow, I wouldn't have said that it looked as scummy.

Anyway, moving on...

I'm not so sure about the push on vonflare. Vonflare was lurking but TF has fewer posts and less memorable stances. :shrug:

Your thoughts on OC?

At first I felt OC was super likely to be scum, way back in twilight, immediately after his claim, I said he was either stupid town or obvscum. I've come around a bit on this, because the commuter role in and of itself is very town, and it's a confirmable role, and because of his play today. Pika connecting himself to OC, and confirming that his attempt to perform an action on him failed, makes me feel it's more likely that he's town than scum, depending on the timing. I need to look back at it and see if he claimed before Ogzin started talking about having Lucian kill him in terms which clearly show any scum they've been copped and are not long for the world. If he did the role and target claim before Ogzin spoke up, it's more likely OC is scum, and partners with Pika, who was attempting to support OC's claim. If it occurred after, OC is more likely town, or at least not aligned with the same faction as Pika, and they were simply taking the opportunity to confuse the town more and perhaps spur us into lynching OC on the basis of the connection between them that they created.

Meta question: Would Pika, having been outed as scum, be bold enough to make clear connections between themselves and another member of their team on the assumption that town would think such a play was TOO obvious, and there was no way the player in question was actually scum?

@Cerberus - The latter - I doubt anyone scummier than Lihin is going to get wagon'd or lynched today.

Hmm. SO the only person scummier than lihin is the person you're going to investigate? noted.

I actually think the reverse is true.. IF he went after OC before the cop guilty then OC is probably not his partner (doesnt mean not scum of course just not same team), but if he went after OC after the guilty it could just be a bus attempt. Either way, I don't think any connections with IKA clear him at all since its 2 scum teams.

[BBmolla]

sup i hate everything

ask me shit if you want to know shit from me

i just dont fucking care about anything right now

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

Also stop making me paranoid on Cooper again. He fits easily with Drixx and I am trying to give Drixx a chance.

I'm not seeing the Drixx/Cooper connection. However, I think you should still be very paranoid of Copper.

How do you define 'Vig' ---- do you mean.. Can kill? because thats not rare at all for mafia.

Scum teams have a faction kill. That's entirely different from a role with a kill. Giving a scum team an additional kill on top of their faction kill is very rare and highly unlikely.

I was reluctant to respond here as I'm not looking to lynch Lucias (he did just kill scum after all, there are way more likely scum targets), but now Titus and you have both weighed in I felt I should clarify, and move on. Why would it have to be an 'extra' kill and not their faction/main kill? I've been in a game where one scum team could kill during the day instead of at night and just the type of twist some of the other roles are getting.

If there's another kill during the day with the same kill flavor, we'll lynch the crap out of Lucian. Happy?

- You were scummy yesterday and still are with this catch-up posting style, get updated with the game and post about what is happening now instead of being able to modify what you are going to say after the facts happen by selecting the quotes you like.

I tried that day 1 and never caught up enough to post something worthwhile. I'm in the game now and staying in it. And since I have an active life, that means that I'll have to make catch up posts when I fall behind. And given the rate this game moves, that will be often. I post in the moment. I don't selectively quote. So you are getting the same treatment you would if I was a prolific poster, only it's condensed. If you want to mudsling, you're going to have to pick a better target than our posting activity.

- Why did you ignore my response to your slot's question about Pirate Ika? Because it did not fit the narrative?

Because it's not relevant in the grand scheme of things since you still found ways to scum read our slot. You just not using Pika means that you realized you didn't have enough to fabricate a case.

- I did not jump on Vyse, I have had a scumread on Vyse for god knows how long and the points I make when I vote him are the same, unanswered, that I made previously

You mean the scumread that was based on the case of "guy is lurking and promising content. Let's lynch."? As far as I can tell, that's now evolved into scumreading him for scumreading you and misrepresenting and discrediting his points. So I'm really not seeing the strength in this statement.

I said I was going to make a case on you guys after spending my time on the pirates and some of the reads I found when reviewing their ISO made me question my Bulbasaur read, once again you claim my read on you is stale when it's clearly dynamic, you are just ignoring the posts that don't fit with your BS.

So you saw something that didn't fit your read, discarded it, and kept the read anyway? That's not dynamic. Your read

is

stale, because you've never moved on from the initial reasons and just make up new ones to justify its existence. If your read was truly dynamic, then I'd expect you to reevaluate the read to see if it still held up, not go "Welp, I was wrong about the Pika connection. Bulba is still scum guys.".

- There is a difference between agreeing and not bothering to reply to your supposed scumread by quoting someone else, who you think is scum, for you.

I'm not sure I see and agree with this, but okay.

@Bulbasaur
Also a scumflip is irrelevant for reads? Noted bois and girls (too use Ivy's posting style).

I'm not sure how the Pika scum flip is supposed to affect any read on you. In fact, I believe you were against the Pika lynch.

I'd put a fair amount of money on Bulbasaur being Berlin Underground and Vyse being Volcano, the whole I scumread you and you scumread me but we both hate Copper more stinks.

Wah. Wah. Baby Copper wants milk. Somebody fetch him a nipple.

I just don't feel like lynching Lihin.
It seems like a generally solid notion that there are currently scum on his wagon. I'm not sure who, but I don't think they're bussing and/or driving his lynch to kill a scum-buddy.
Plus, he hasn't even put up a fight. He's too much of an easy lynch to be considered a good lynch, and his lack of defense, even after he claimed, seems like a good reason for the scum to step in and take advantage of his situation.
I don't necessarily read lihin as town, but I don't like some of the votes on his wagon. That's why I don't think he's the best option for today.

This is crappy reasoning and a crappy post.

I should be a bit more active tomorrow. We'll see.

-Bulbasaur.

[copper223]

I tried that day 1 and never caught up enough to post something worthwhile. I'm in the game now and staying in it. And since I have an active life, that means that I'll have to make catch up posts when I fall behind. And given the rate this game moves, that will be often. I post in the moment. I don't selectively quote. So you are getting the same treatment you would if I was a prolific poster, only it's condensed. If you want to mudsling, you're going to have to pick a better target than our posting activity.

I dislike this posting style and think it's abusable by scum.

Because it's not relevant in the grand scheme of things since you still found ways to scum read our slot. You just not using Pika means that you realized you didn't have enough to fabricate a case.

This is the same reason why I disliked Vyse's case. You have no idea what I am thinking so where do you get the confidence to say this bullshit? I found other reasons to scumread your slot because you ignored a major re-evaluation of your read I was going through just to "sling mud" as it were.

You mean the scumread that was based on the case of "guy is lurking and promising content. Let's lynch."? As far as I can tell, that's now evolved into scumreading him for scumreading you and misrepresenting and discrediting his points. So I'm really not seeing the strength in this statement.

What does your percieved strenght of my case on Vyse have to do with me jumping on him? You accused me of opportunistically jumping on him which is plainly false as I would have lost 10kgs "jumping" on him by now. You are deflecting onto something not relevant for the point I made here.

So you saw something that didn't fit your read, discarded it, and kept the read anyway? That's not dynamic. Your read

is

stale, because you've never moved on from the initial reasons and just make up new ones to justify its existence. If your read was truly dynamic, then I'd expect you to reevaluate the read to see if it still held up, not go "Welp, I was wrong about the Pika connection. Bulba is still scum guys.".

Nope I actually started to change the read from definitely scum to maybe scum, as is clearly evident by my posting if someone wants to go and check, then you came in and ignored that part to "spice up" your replies which dropped your read back to: these guys are scum.

I'm not sure how the Pika scum flip is supposed to affect any read on you. In fact, I believe you were against the Pika lynch.

At the end yes, I explained why meta from another game I played with them tricked me into believing Pirate Ika were not scum here, turns out Mollie wasn't even playing in that game and they did not even know they were in a team with me cause they missed the PT link, so every read I usually have about how Mollie plays scum just went down the crapper, you can easily check the evidence as I gave the link of the game. To start with though I was the first to make a serious case on Pirate Ika and called them scum because of their fishy Drixx read. The point here however is not how town I am, it's that you stated everything that happened today is irrelevant to read copper, which is again a load of crap that I have a hard time attributing to a town slot.

Wah. Wah. Baby Copper wants milk. Somebody fetch him a nipple.

Very argumentative.

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

I tried that day 1 and never caught up enough to post something worthwhile. I'm in the game now and staying in it. And since I have an active life, that means that I'll have to make catch up posts when I fall behind. And given the rate this game moves, that will be often. I post in the moment. I don't selectively quote. So you are getting the same treatment you would if I was a prolific poster, only it's condensed. If you want to mudsling, you're going to have to pick a better target than our posting activity.

I dislike this posting style and think it's abusable by scum.

Weren't you making a big deal about attacking style earlier, or am I thinking about someone else?

Because it's not relevant in the grand scheme of things since you still found ways to scum read our slot. You just not using Pika means that you realized you didn't have enough to fabricate a case.

This is the same reason why I disliked Vyse's case. You have no idea what I am thinking so where do you get the confidence to say this bullshit? I found other reasons to scumread your slot because you ignored a major re-evaluation of your read I was going through just to "sling mud" as it were.

It's interesting that you're calling our call out of your static read mudslinging, because it's really anything but. If you have anything better than a crap meta read that everybody has told you is crap, then go ahead, I'm all ears. But currently, that's all we know you to be basing this read on, and since the read hasn't evolved past that, it's static, stale, and scummy.

You mean the scumread that was based on the case of "guy is lurking and promising content. Let's lynch."? As far as I can tell, that's now evolved into scumreading him for scumreading you and misrepresenting and discrediting his points. So I'm really not seeing the strength in this statement.

What does your percieved strenght of my case on Vyse have to do with me jumping on him? You accused me of opportunistically jumping on him which is plainly false as I would have lost 10kgs "jumping" on him by now. You are deflecting onto something not relevant for the point I made here.

Ivy can elaborate better on the "jumping on" comment, but your argument was that you were on Vyse first. I just pointed out why that argument is a bad one, because like us, your original Vyse case holds no water, and your more recent contributions boil down to misrepresenting his points and aiming to discredit them. As such, my points in this regard are very relevant.

Nope I actually started to change the read from definitely scum to maybe scum, as is clearly evident by my posting if someone wants to go and check, then you came in and ignored that part to "spice up" your replies which dropped your read back to: these guys are scum.

Again, you don't have anything to back said read up, which means that it's just a read that you pulled out of your rectum in the beginning of the game and refer to whenever you need to illustrate that you have scumreads. If there's more, then by all means, let's go over it, but as far as I can see, there's not, which makes this a stale read, and your "reevaluation" falls flat because of it.

The point here however is not how town I am, it's that you stated everything that happened today is irrelevant to read copper, which is again a load of crap that I have a hard time attributing to a town slot.

That's not what I said. You had attacked Vyse for ignoring your play today. My point was what had changed today that should influence Vyse's read? Given that the Pika flip was the only major event at the time, then that meant you were trying to say that your actions in connection with the Pika wagon and flip should influence his read to the town side, which I don't see. So again, what changed that should make Vyse reconsider his read, because I'm seeing absolutely nothing.

Wah. Wah. Baby Copper wants milk. Somebody fetch him a nipple.

Very argumentative.

(Okay, admittedly I'm being a bit silly at this point.)

-Bulbasaur

[copper223]

Weren't you making a big deal about attacking style earlier, or am I thinking about someone else?

That was Vyse, I'd try to avoid mixing the two up.

It's interesting that you're calling our call out of your static read mudslinging, because it's really anything but. If you have anything better than a crap meta read that everybody has told you is crap, then go ahead, I'm all ears. But currently, that's all we know you to be basing this read on, and since the read hasn't evolved past that, it's static, stale, and scummy.

I do have a read that is not based solely on meta, in fact meta is not even the main point and I have made these points multiple times:

1. I dislike your scumreads this game:

- you started with a scumread on Drixx when he was getting pressured and did not bother to explain it 209, I found that opportunistic to say the least and I believed at the time, as I do now, that Drixx is more likely to be town.

- you proceed with a scumread of Lucian 562, once again a player that looked superficially scummy at the time and on whom a wagon was starting but I believed to be town, when I told you so you did not bother to check the information I gave you about him or you have shown no trace of said information filtering into your reads.

- I know your scumread of me is a pile of tosh.

2. Other than these three most likely incorrect reads there is nothing much in your ISO that helps town in any way, you of course voted for Jackel98 yesterday and you are happily sitting on the Lihin wagon, another newbie whom I really don't have much of a clue if he is scum or just decided he had no interest in playing on the site anymore.

Ivy can elaborate better on the "jumping on" comment, but your argument was that you were on Vyse first. I just pointed out why that argument is a bad one, because like us, your original Vyse case holds no water, and your more recent contributions boil down to misrepresenting his points and aiming to discredit them. As such, my points in this regard are very relevant.

Poor Ivy has to cover for your BS? My most recent contributions about Vyse are that I want to hear what he has to say, because he has been harping on about my misrep when I sensationalized his case one me (which is a half decent complaint), it's possible that his way of reading the game attributing feelings to players he pulls out of the ether is his genuine way of scumhunting that works for him, to me it sounds like complete nonsense but I am willing to entertain the possiblity it's a clash of styles instead of alignments. My initial case holds plenty of water as we have a live example of a player that behaved in said manner as scum and admitted it in the tread, my read of Vyse is much more substantiated than your read of Vyse for that matter, whom according to your latest read of him you are apparently scumreading but never explained exactly why.

That's not what I said. You had attacked Vyse for ignoring your play today. My point was what had changed today that should influence Vyse's read? Given that the Pika flip was the only major event at the time, then that meant you were trying to say that your actions in connection with the Pika wagon and flip should influence his read to the town side, which I don't see. So again, what changed that should make Vyse reconsider his read, because I'm seeing absolutely nothing.

You are likely not looking to begin with so that can't be helped. The point I am making is he gave no indication of actually having followed me today when he came out with his reiteration of his case that he made at the end of D1 and I find that unnatural, my scumread of you fellows is developing based on what you just finished posting, I don't just have pointers about what you did at the start of D1 because having a scumread of you I carefully read (the mostly nonsense of) your posts to see if my read was accurate or bad, I see none of that from Vyse which makes me think he might not be interested in updating his reads because he has another motive to scumread me other than finding out my alignment.

[Oranje Crush]

- I know your scumread of me is a pile of tosh.

pile of tosh

of tosh

tosh

tosh

[Oranje Crush]

Kill her already.

[Oranje Crush]

Who we waiting for?

[Oranje Crush]

Copper just British slipped.

[copper223]

Must be my mother's heritage

[Toon Fighter]

dis is painful i might just lolololol hammer.

Know that feel bro. My hammer finger is just itching at this point

[VysePresident]

So, I feel asleep on the floor, and it's six A.M. That about sums up why I can't donate my time to the cause of of Pillars of Eternity. Hammer if you really have to, and I'll just have to cram through tomorrow evening instead. (I go to work at three, and get back at nine. This is on top of cramming through some studies & stuff. Hence why I would have preferred the weekend.)

In regards to my IRL stuff - I don't mind answering questions regarding availability & such, though I'm not entirely reliable on that at present. (See above :/ ) I don't want it to be considered alignment indicative - I've had stuff crop up in a couple of games as both alignments, and likely will in the future. I just want it taken reasonably seriously, and I would appreciate a little space for these kind of things. (It's not like it's to ScumVyse's advantage to surrender the microphone to Copper anyway.)

[Oranje Crush]

HAMMER I'M REALLY BORED

[Toon Fighter]

meh. I've done worse hammers.

unvote, vote: Lihin

[Cuttlefish]

Vote Count 2.09

Lihin (13)

- Cerberus v666, Om of the Nom, Boonskiies, deathfisaro, Oranje Crush, Bulbasaur Commonwealth, Narninian, Drixx, LucianRoy, ChriVi, VysePresident, Ozgin, Toon Fighter

Oranje Crush (2)

- BBmolla, Three-Pronged Trouser God

Drixx (2)

- Titus

VysePresident (2)

- PeregrineV, copper223

Cerberus v666 (1)

- Magua

Not Voting (3)

: ActionDan, vonflare, Lihin

With 23 votes in play, it takes 13 to lynch.

Deadline falls in (expired on 2015-04-02 10:05:14).

----------

Lihin

-

Town Double Day Foreman

- Lynched day two.

Magua

-

Town Forgetful Watcher

- Nuked from orbit day two.

It is now twilight. Twilight deadline falls in (expired on 2015-03-27 09:32:32). Please submit your night actions now if you have them.

Day two begins in (expired on 2015-03-28 09:32:32).

[wgeurts]

The bloody fuck?

[wgeurts]

"Nuked from orbit"
The claim was also a lie, but why?

[Titus]

What are you talking about the claim was a lie?

Wgertz if Bro is no longer playing, officially sub him out. If not, try to post in hydra so we know Bro is still there. Ty.

[Titus]

Unless we believe Magua, BBMolla, Cooper, TPTG and PV to be the last scums, scum was on the Lihin wagon. Worth noting. Not sure if that matters as at all though but I like noting things for later.

[Toon Fighter]

"Nuked from orbit"
The claim was also a lie, but why?

You are so fucking scum right now

[Titus]

Well shit I just saw that. Slow morning.

Any scumteam that does not include someone voting Lihin must be a lie.

I'm kinda surprised Magua was nuked from orbit day 2 though. Why not wait until day 3 when they could frame Lucian?

[Narninian]

Well shit I just saw that. Slow morning.

Any scumteam that does not include someone voting Lihin must be a lie.

I'm kinda surprised Magua was nuked from orbit day 2 though. Why not wait until day 3 when they could frame Lucian?

Nuked from orbit is clearly different than shot in the face.

[Magua]

Well, that's a bit of a relief.

Claim stuff: Forgetful Watcher is a watcher who receives their results at the beginning of the next Night instead of the next Day. So I would receive my results from N1 on N2, instead of D2. So I have no results at all from N1. Womp womp. It wouldn't matter overly much, as I didn't watch BBmolla or Marquis.

---

My kill is antitown (as is any kill where you don't get a claim beforehand). Gutread would be some sort of SK type role.

---

Pretty much everything I said in 3282 still holds. Still think Drixx is town. Think all of the paranoia around TPTG/Toonfighter/Lucian is pointless at this stage of the game. TPTG/Toon, especially, are high targets for scum regardless, and don't really warrant the noise. Lucian I think is town, but even on the .01% that he's not, with at least two scumgroups + probable SK kill he'll wind up deaded one way or another. Talk of voting/lynching any of these three is useless noise.

Cerberus remains my strongest scumread.

Titus is interesting. On the one hand, Titus asks basic, very newbieish questions. On the other, Titus makes non-basic mafia gameplay remarks. And then Titus makes comments like "I bet there was scum on Lilah wagon", which is pretty much a duh statement -- especially in multiball, any grouping of 51% of the players is going to have scum in it. I feel like Titus would know this, and find the pushing of it as some useful insight scummy. But the whole doublevoter-pretends-to-be-a-treestump thing reads as so town. So conflicted.

[Toon Fighter]

Well, that's a bit of a relief.

Claim stuff: Forgetful Watcher is a watcher who receives their results at the beginning of the next Night instead of the next Day. So I would receive my results from N1 on N2, instead of D2. So I have no results at all from N1. Womp womp. It wouldn't matter overly much, as I didn't watch BBmolla or Marquis.

---

My kill is antitown (as is any kill where you don't get a claim beforehand). Gutread would be some sort of SK type role.

---

Pretty much everything I said in 3282 still holds. Still think Drixx is town. Think all of the paranoia around TPTG/Toonfighter/Lucian is pointless at this stage of the game. TPTG/Toon, especially, are high targets for scum regardless, and don't really warrant the noise. Lucian I think is town, but even on the .01% that he's not, with at least two scumgroups + probable SK kill he'll wind up deaded one way or another. Talk of voting/lynching any of these three is useless noise.

Cerberus remains my strongest scumread.

Titus is interesting. On the one hand, Titus asks basic, very newbieish questions. On the other, Titus makes non-basic mafia gameplay remarks. And then Titus makes comments like "I bet there was scum on Lilah wagon", which is pretty much a duh statement -- especially in multiball, any grouping of 51% of the players is going to have scum in it. I feel like Titus would know this, and find the pushing of it as some useful insight scummy. But the whole doublevoter-pretends-to-be-a-treestump thing reads as so town. So conflicted.

Are you even able to post during twilight?