We Didn't Playtest This | Game over, everyone loses

[God of Power Outlets]

I'll BBL, i'm getting irritable.

wgeurtz, tell BRO that y'all best kill me tonight


-kuribo


PEdit: that's a good thought too, magua

[Oranje Crush]

Why Kuribo?
I don't have a kill and you're funny.
Bro's somewhere, out in the wide world.

[Oranje Crush]

I'm going to check out all lihin votes and compare the wagons with the Jackal lynch.
I was wrong, I admit. However a lot of people abused my certainty and joined sheeping my push.
I'm on phone so I'll get on my laptop to do this.

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

- you started with a scumread on Drixx when he was getting pressured and did not bother to explain it 209, I found that opportunistic to say the least and I believed at the time, as I do now, that Drixx is more likely to be town.

First, not explaining reads is not scummy nor indicative of scum and falls in line with the playstyle of Venusaur and myself (although I'm more likely to explain as the game moves on). Second, Drixx was not getting pressured at that point. Om hadn't made his case yet, and in fact, he followed our lead directly after.

We're

the ones who started that wagon and pressure, so calling us opportunistic for it is misleading at best.

- you proceed with a scumread of Lucian 562, once again a player that looked superficially scummy at the time and on whom a wagon was starting but I believed to be town, when I told you so you did not bother to check the information I gave you about him or you have shown no trace of said information filtering into your reads.

He didn't look superficially scummy. He looked actual scummy. He still looks actual scummy, but we have the knowledge of him being a vig to temper our reads. And for my part, I was working off a confirmation bias theory that postulated a Drixx/Lucian/Vyse team, which I have since dumped far behind me. If you want to talk about us still scumreading Lucian after the vig claim, that's Ivy's deal, and I'm sure he'd be more than happy to explain. But then you're going to have to go out of your way to explain why scum would choose to keep a scum read on a claimed vig when it would be much easier to drop the read and go along with him.

- I know your scumread of me is a pile of tosh.

This is not a valid point in any sort of case, and forgive me if I don't take your word for it.

2. Other than these three most likely incorrect reads there is nothing much in your ISO that helps town in any way, you of course voted for Jackel98 yesterday and you are happily sitting on the Lihin wagon, another newbie whom I really don't have much of a clue if he is scum or just decided he had no interest in playing on the site anymore.

You sure enjoy flaunting how much you called people town. That's one of the big reasons I think you're scum, because that's not a town attitude. Saying "Hey guys! I told you those people were town. You should have listened to me. Too bad they're dead... But hey, look how right I was! I'm so town!" is not a town mindset.

Poor Ivy has to cover for your BS?

Ivy was the one that made the "jumping on" comment, so he can explain his thought process better than I can. Plus, we sign our posts, so I'm not seeing how you thought this line of attack could work.

My initial case holds plenty of water as we have a live example of a player that behaved in said manner as scum and admitted it in the tread

But plenty has happened since then to show you that the point no longer holds water. Why are you still hanging on to it?

my read of Vyse is much more substantiated than your read of Vyse for that matter, whom according to your latest read of him you are apparently scumreading but never explained exactly why.

I'm actually not scumreading Vyse. In fact, that's why Vyse is suspicious of us: because our read on him changed. I've actually outlined why my read on him changed at the beginning of the day. Were you not paying attention?

That's not what I said. You had attacked Vyse for ignoring your play today. My point was what had changed today that should influence Vyse's read? Given that the Pika flip was the only major event at the time, then that meant you were trying to say that your actions in connection with the Pika wagon and flip should influence his read to the town side, which I don't see. So again, what changed that should make Vyse reconsider his read, because I'm seeing absolutely nothing.

You are likely not looking to begin with so that can't be helped. The point I am making is he gave no indication of actually having followed me today when he came out with his reiteration of his case that he made at the end of D1 and I find that unnatural

His changing his case would only make sense if something happened during d2 that affected his initial case. I've seen no evidence of that. So what supposedly happened d2 that should have affected Vyse's case on you?

my scumread of you fellows is developing based on what you just finished posting

So you have squat, you admit you have squat, and you're just trying to use our questioning and pressuring of you as a continual justification to scumread us? Am I understanding this right?

Cerberus remains my strongest scumread.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, your reasons for scumreading Cerebus are bad. It makes more sense for scum to set Cerebus up for a lynch with a Marquis kill than it does for Cerebus to be afraid of Marquis, especially since Cerebus outed himself and suggested the investigation to begin with. This is a red herring. Stop basing your read off of it. There's no way Cerebus-scum would benefit from the move at all. You should be asking yourself who would.

-Bulbasaur

[Narninian]

I'm not going to be taking full advantage of this twilight discussion because if scum knows how I feel they'll be much better equipped to predict my night action (which is much less powerful if they know what I might do)

[Magua]

Protip: Direct kill from person you think is town to person you think is scum.

[Magua]

Also, Narninian's claim makes him pretty town. Not his role, which after all isn't super confirmable, but the way he was all "Yeah, I redirected a kill onto Marquis, whta about it"

[deathfisaro]

Like really? How long did you want to wait?

Next time let's another day. No. Two days! Fuck it, let's just go to deadline and never lynch anyone.

Man the fuck up and lynch your scum reads instead of bitching about it when other people do.

-kuribo

Actually since he was prodded yesterday, today he'd either have to show up and post something useful (and if we accept the implicit scumclaim and hammer), or be force replaced and we'll get SOMETHING out of it.
See how Magua's sticking around twilight and doing all he can? And yet you don't want Lihin doing the same for some reason I can't possibly comprehend.
I hope you get shot tonight, that'll practically mod confirm Toon as town and hopefully Drixx will come back to normal with negative influence not around.

pedit;
@Narninian
Whoever your initial target is going to be, the redirect is best on BP, no? I mean, BPs should be playing to draw in NKs on themselves but with open claims early game they are doing the opposite and spreading the bullets around people who don't have vests. Unless your receipt tells you whether it failed because your initial target received no night action or it failed because you tried redirecting it to scum. I don't remember the details but you mentioned something in that regards.

[Magua]

Both BPs are probably town. ActionDan moreso than Drixx.

I think any attempt at saying "Kills should be redirected to X or Y" should be summarily ignored.

[ChriVi]

Narninian... You don't think it would've been a better idea to redirect that kill onto someone who hadn't claimed an /investigative role/ and was possibly going to lead to some conftowns?

[copper223]

It sucks to be the one-eyed man in the land of the blind and scum is all I can say about this BS.

Lynch Bulbasaur if I am not around, for the love of god.

[copper223]

Also if there is a vig. shot still available to town take out Oranje, he is either scum if I screwed up that read or mislynch bait now if I was right.

[wgeurts]

I'm not going to be taking full advantage of this twilight discussion because if scum knows how I feel they'll be much better equipped to predict my night action (which is much less powerful if they know what I might do)

Redirect to me, it'll be blocked

[copper223]

Magua I don't like fisaro, I think it's likely he is vulcano, he soent most of the day telling me what a dummy I am for not joining the Lihin lynch, so this 180 is forced and unnatural.

[Magua]

I read deathfisaro as illogical but wellmeaning.

Scum tend to be much more consistent in their stances than town, because they make an effort to be consistent with what they've said before.

[Oranje Crush]

Narnian!
Redirect to me, I'm commuter and can't be roleblocked!
It'll block kill 100% allowing you basically roleblock on kills.

And copper, I was wrong with lihin however it's given us info. Look how people who were very supportive and helped the lihin push are now turning on me and dumping the blame as if they never had anything to do with it.
You're town, I believe scum wouldn't be so hesitant to join a town wagon.

[copper223]

Also for the rest of town, remember the comparison that I made between the Jackel and the Lihin wagons, the names that figure on both and whose votes appear the post opportunistic have a high chance ogpf being scum as well, like Om, especially if Drixx is town, or Cerberus. If Cerberus flips scum have a close look at ChriVi, maybe they are just playing the "dumb" card with the whole "my neighbor told us he knows we are town so he is absolutely town as well " spiel.

[Magua]

Kills are best redirected onto scummy people, not onto a claimed commuter.

[copper223]

@Oranje
That's all well and good Wgeurts but if you are town and ask for a hammer because you are bored, you get fucked at some point when scum need a mislynch, you are a liability for town either way now.

[copper223]

I read deathfisaro as illogical but wellmeaning.

Scum tend to be much more consistent in their stances than town, because they make an effort to be consistent with what they've said before.

This is not one read I am sure of, but scum tend to overcompensate when mislynching by blaming town for it to distance themselves from the flip and this is what he did here.

[Magua]

I tend to see that behavior from those who were off of the wagon, ie, defend someone who is getting lynched, then yell at their wagon when they are lynched and call them dumb.

Whereas death was on the wagon.

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

I like how Copper is avoiding all of our points.

-Bulbasaur

[copper223]

Town off the wagon is going to do that as well as scum though, whereas town that legit thinks they were lynching scum is more invested in the lynch, they are more liable to explain it away as the other player being scummy so he rightfully got lynched rather than turn around on the rest of the lynchers the moment the lynch they wanted happens.

Plus Mollie thought fisaro was scum.

[Oranje Crush]

Liability?
How?
It wasn't me who hammered. Yeah I wanted it to happen as I was fudge sure lihin was scum.
So scum can now use me as mis-lynch bait, that just makes it easier for me to catch them as I expect them to push the hell out of it tommorow. Players like TPTG who supported the wagon now seem to blame it on me as I was the driving force at the start, that however isn't where the scum are. I want to see who joined it too easily, both the jackal and lihin wagons. Om's now looking shady as you said and isn't playing with the enthusiasm she had as town in varsoon mafia. Where she went insane pushing her scum-reads.
Anyway, I'm surviving the night one way or another.

[copper223]

@Bulbasaur
Your points are laughable and not worth my time when I have better reads to share, I don't think scum can afford to keep me alive so hopefully you are going down tomorrow either way. I like that of all the giant info dump I just gave your only consideration is trying to make me look scummy, like Titus said, I'll eat a hat if you are not scum.