[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[TierShift]

Tailors aren't that bad, it's basically just weakening the cop. It also makes for some fun speculation.

that's the problem; town is already weak enough with the scum vengekill. You don't need to

also

nerf the cop.

[wgeurts]

To shoot, or not to shoot.

2 Mafia Goons

1 Tracker
1 Desperado
5 VT's

• Mafia have a venge-kill on first mafia death.
  
• Mafia have day-talk.

Or

Risk

1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Mafia Goon

1 Macho Tracker
1 Doctor
1 Desperado
4 VT's

• Mafia roleblocker can take kill and block if last mafia alive.

[wgeurts]

Would the tailor setup work without vengekill?

Edit: don't like the second setup in the above post actually.

[TierShift]

without the vengekill, you have to get rid of the desperado. Then it would look nothing like your original setup.

[wgeurts]

Possibly I could take away targeting themselves?
This would make the backup pretty vulnerable to cops, and the desperado then comes into play.

[wgeurts]

The desperado is basically a 1-shot cop as well if he claims his role before the shot.

[ArcAngel9]

I want to run a Mega PopCorn Open setup(as large or medium large game). the existing Popcorn mafia is a 11P game with 7 townies and 4 mafia goons. For those who are not familiar with the setup. Please See this. There have been several feedbacks about Popcorn being very town sided but in the past the games have moderated had 50/50 results.

And now, I have few changes in the setup and want to see if this can be workable.

11p Townies (includes 1 gun bearer)

3p Mafia Goons

3p Mafia Vengeful Goons

(Night Less, Mafia will have a day talk)

If Gun Bearer hits Vengeful goon, they die with them and Mafia will have to select another Gun bearer.

I need opinions on this setup and if this balances both factions equally. Appreciate your feedback on this!!!

Thanks a lot!!!

[Otolia]

The desperado is basically a 1-shot cop as well if he claims his role before the shot.

So it's a Day Desperado ?

[wgeurts]

yeah

[Micc]

3 Mafia Goons
4 Vanilla Townies

If a Vanilla Townie is lynched Day1, the remaining Vanilla Townies get a chance to guess the scumteam. If any of them get it right then Town wins. If all are wrong then Mafia wins. If a Mafia Goon is lynched Day1, the Mafia makes a nightkill and the game continues 2vs3.

If a Vanilla Townie is lynched Day2, then the lynched player gets a chance to guess the scumteam. If right then town win, wrong then Mafia Win. If a goon is lynched Day 2 then Town wins.

Just a thought. I havent thought very deeply about balance or breaking strategies quite yet.

I'd like to get some more opinions on breaking strategies for this setup. ZZZX and I started analyzing it but I think his breaking strategy makes too many assumptions based off reads to classify it as a breaking strategy instead of scumhunting. Then again, Im not quite sure I understand his strategy so I could be wrong.

Feel free to comment on balance as well. By my EV math (which hopefully is done right) its scumsided, but I'm somewhat ok with that considering once solid consensus town read flips the win rate significantly in favor of the town.

Spoiler: Previous Analysis

Looks aweasom but breakable

Been thinking about it, and I dont think its breakable. Only potential breaking point I can see is coordination of guesses in the case of a D1 mislynch. There are 6nCr3 = 20 possible combinations of scum teams between the remaining players. Way to many to cover between the players (i think).

A VT has a 1/5nCr3 = 0.1 = 10% chance to guess correctly after a D1 mislynch.
Assuming there is corridination thats a 30% chance town wins after D1 mislynch.

The lynched VT has a 1/3 = 33 % chance to guess correctly after a D2 mislynch.

So all together the town win rate is:
4/7 * 3/10 + 3/7 * 1/3 = 0.314 = 31.4%

Thats a bit low. Letting the lynched player make a guess after D1 mislynch improves the overall to 34.3%.

I fact that the scum team cannot quick hammer for risk of being guessed correctly makes this a pretty interesting idea.

A B C D E F


half are town
scum compinations ( ABC ABD ABE ABF ABG ACD ACF ACG ADE ADF ADG AEF AEG AFG BCD BCE BCF BCG BDE BDF BDG BEF BEG BFG CDE CDF CDG CEF CEG CFG)

if you remove a (cus u are a)
BCD BCE BCF BCG BDE BDF BEF BEG BFG CDE CDF CDG CEF CEG CFG

if every 2 players coordinated in a way to consider both of them as town: (remove b)
CDE CDF CEF (6 remains aka pick 3 out of 4)


if 3 groups of people (considering worst case senario of 2 town teams and one scum team work it up it will be a case of:)
both town group:(if existant) will have a 2/3 chance of wining it.
A: picks one compination CDE
B: picks another CDF
2 normal group like that and 2 people who freely mix thier vote between the groups

generally with a little bit of scum hunting it will be pretty fine

if its 4p then its pretty much simpler (above needs work)

a b c d

cd as scum

groups system:

one group that votes for anyone not included in group:

A-B: CD = win

1 free lancers who vote for one person in the group and the guy next to him
2nd guy votes for everyone in the group

if any of ab are scum and c is town then its a 75%
if ab are town its a 100%
if c+ someone from ab is scum the game is lost
otherwise it is won

its a case of getting a 65-70% chance of victory,

if it went into more detailed work it can be better

that is assuming a mislynch all the time.

I'm not following any of that.

Why do you use letters A-G (7 players) when there are only 6 players in play?
Where are you taking into consideration that half of the preclaimed guesses will be coming from scum and thus cannot cause the town to win?

I'm aware that the Day 2 guess is broken if the non mislynched townies are allowed to guess. Thats why I designed it for the lynched townie to be the only one who guesses.

I started to work it out on my own, but have basketball to watch so it will have to wait.

G is the dead guy

If only lynched guy can pick then its more do-able

Also in the 3v3 if scum wasn't in the group I spoke about town has a 75-80% chance of getting it right

[Bicephalous Bob]

EV doesn't really matter in that kind of setup. Scum effectively decide whether scum or town is lynched, although that's somewhat mediated by the threat of a townie figuring out the scum team. The chances of any townie figuring out the scum team after a town lynch is 3 * (5 choose 3) = 3/10 if I'm not mistaken. I think the actual town win rate will be around 40%, which is pretty good. It's a nice individual challenge and I doubt anyone who plays the setup really cares as much about the balance as they care about personal glory. I don't think it's breakable.

Most of all, it screams for a multiball scum majority variant.

[ArcAngel9]

I want to run a Mega PopCorn Open setup(as large or medium large game). the existing Popcorn mafia is a 11P game with 7 townies and 4 mafia goons. For those who are not familiar with the setup. Please See this. There have been several feedbacks about Popcorn being very town sided but in the past the games have moderated had 50/50 results.

And now, I have few changes in the setup and want to see if this can be workable.

11p Townies (includes 1 gun bearer)

3p Mafia Goons

3p Mafia Vengeful Goons

(Night Less, Mafia will have a day talk)

If Gun Bearer hits Vengeful goon, they die with them and Mafia will have to select another Gun bearer.

I need opinions on this setup and if this balances both factions equally. Appreciate your feedback on this!!!

Thanks a lot!!!

Knock Knock!!!
Looking for feedback on this... Molla, jason, llamla? please and thank you

[BBmolla]

I think it's actually good?

I'm not really sure tbh, I don't know nightless balance all that well.

[ArcAngel9]

The setup is same as before except now mafia may have equal chance to fight with Town.

[Otolia]

Are they separated Mafia ? If the gunbearer hits a Vengeful Mafia which Mafia elects a new gunbearer ? Is there a voting mechanic ?

The main drawback I see in this setup (as in many Nightless setups) is the absence of motivation of all of the townies to participate. With so little PR, participation will be an issue.

[ArcAngel9]

No they are not separated Mafia team. They all single team...
Have you played pop corn mafia before? It is so much fun to be gun bearer, It's so over powered that at one point of game a lot people have opportunity to hold the gun but only at the right hands it will hold value.
On contrary it was the Mafia team who weren't really enjoying this game in the earlier setup as it feels that town is so over powered which is why I am proposing with new changes.. 3 vengeful mafia increases Mafia chances equally with team.

[Otolia]

It has some merits and it's an interesting setup. Still I'm worried that it may not nurture good gameplay but raher LOLWUT vig'ing.

[ArcAngel9]

I am open for any changes that will improve the game setup but popcorn is one of few setups people dont mind it repeated over and over.. Its very entertaining when you play it.

[LlamaFluff]

@AA - Can you run the numbers on win chances? Its probably not too difficult but I wont have time to run them myself for a few days.

[ArcAngel9]

@AA - Can you run the numbers on win chances? Its probably not too difficult but I wont have time to run them myself for a few days.

Sure. I ll calculate and let you know how it goes.!!

[Cheery Dog]

I am open for any changes that will improve the game setup but popcorn is one of few setups people dont mind it repeated over and over.. Its very entertaining when you play it.

For some people probably, but then that's the aim of most open setups, you're never going to get anywhere.

I know I'm not interested in any variation of popcorn as I didn't find the first one enjoyable.

[PokerFace]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p6717495

your setup looks good Micc. Let me know when you run it. I'd be interested in playing it

[EspeciallyTheLies]

1 serial killer
1 mafia goon
1 werewolf
14 town

slightly altered win conditions, with a game-day deadline:

town

You win by eliminating all threats to town by the end of D4.

goon/sk/ww

You win by being the last remaining anti-town member at the end of D4.

If no win condition is met by the end of D4, it's a draw.

Could be expanded, more townies, more days. The idea was to have so many town that these individual anti-town players could hide, but despite this advantage, they are handicapped in number.

Specifically did not include power roles as I wanted it to be very focused on scum hunting, but I'm not sure if it could benefit from one/some or not. I was also originally thinking about only have one goon, and none of the other stuff, but if they lynch the guy D1 that's just boring and unfun.

Thoughts?

[ArcAngel9]

If SK, MG or WW cross fire.. its GG. And in my opinion scum hunting for three factions are way too much.. Knock it down at least two...
Easy town win. I personally wouldn't want to roll into either of them except town.

[BBmolla]

Mafia is a game of connections. Without any connections, it removes an enormous part of scumhunting and an enormous part of fun.

Can't you just make them three mafia on the same team who know one of the other mafia and each have a nightkill? Nightkills on fellow mafias fail?