8:4 Vanilla Nightless [TM2015] - GAME OVER

[Sotty7]

I think GreyICE is really stretching my scum game and is choosing to ignore my actual preferences to make his vote fit.

[wgeurts]

ZZZX, why are you still voting ABR?

I dont think i am

GreyICE (2) - ZZZX, Sotty7

after Grey's posts I feel he is more kind of null but I guess hes the best person to aim my vote at this current stage.

My fault, nevermind that then.

[Metal Sonic]

I've been checking the thread all day but wasn't posting because I should do a long one at the com.

Just came in to report that the above post was extremely scummy for the above reasons:

1. Not denying that GreyICE's claim is absurd and/or not denying that her own slot is scum.
A town response would be either to dismiss GreYICE or because of the moral right that one has received a town PM, thus does not see the need to answer slanderous accusations. Sotty7 is going in-between, by discrediting GreyICE, while doing so in an indirect manner to suggest imposition and avoid conflict.

2. Accusatory instead of content
"I think that GreyICE"... In response to a push. Instead of providing content on other players or making a stand, Sotty's response was to attack GreyICE ad-hominem rather than something built in logic and/or ignoring the libelous arguments against herself. In no manner is any indication made of GreyICE's conclusion being called out right or wrong -- avoiding the topic of alignment altogether.


I wish I could post more but it's tough on a phone. Made this coherent and concise as possible.

[Metal Sonic]

ffs get out of here wgeurts

[ZZZX]

Spoiler:

Wow, I had forgotten that tiger eaten abortion of a game.

Why do I think you would spend tokens on your scum play? It's literally legendary. Believe it or not, I don't think that the tokens were spent "counterintuitively" very often. You'd hardly be the first returning player to take scum (mith himself did it in the first one).

Why you? I wanted to see how you'd respond. Hoopla just complains that everyone always finds her scummy, she'll pop up with some theory blather in a few days. I was hoping you'd be more interesting. And you were.

... No more tokens. Also enough theories

You claimed to be voting me because I was likely to use tokens to make myself scum. That is untrue, it is pretty well known I favor town if any tokens were to be spent on me it would be in that direction as Nacho hinted at. Not only that but you said that Hoopla was more likely to push a token scum draw than myself yet your vote is on me. Why me over her? You're going after the weaker of the two options you listed for yourself and that's not the GreyICE I remember at all.

You remember me? Interesting. What game was that, to give you such a strong impression?

As for recent play experience, I'll save your team the digging - I've been semi-retired for ages. I think the last game I played with Hoopla was like a year ago. My work schedule, moving, and a whole lot of shit has fucked my ability to commit to mafia.

Okey stop pure token talk. This is a common talking-about-mechanics and ignoring game kind of thing.

Interesting.

Why would you say "tokens" is bullshit? They give you an enormous ability to influence your role PM. The idea that we should simply ignore this seems ludicrous.

But even more than that, you've won today's lottery!

Because "tokens" is bullshit and voting me over Hoopla in that respect is even worse.

So my reason is shitty, but even if it wasn't, I should have voted Hoopla rather than you based on it?

Congratulations! You win a noose!

Sorry I'm lynching you for the wrong reasons, scumbag.

To be honest I never got your post. I think my vote is in the right place. you are scum reading him so hard right now because he MIGHT have put tokens as scum? this is not how this works...

None. We're actually all flying solo at the moment. Our QT is 3 pages long, and two of them are chatting with Zoraster.

No content yet.

Your "townhunting" theory and townblock are so incredibly bad that one cannot believe you came up with them unbiased.

Nightless games inevitably snowball. See Camden, or my setup I designed with Hito. At the moment we have 4 mislynches to town loss, but after a single scum lynch we get a spare mislynch. 5 mislynches is nice. Two scum die, and we get 6. That's really nice. 3, and we get 7 fucking mislynches, and if we manage that we should all quit the site.

So the scum are going to be looking to vote as a block. I smell protectionist scum who wish to work together.

Well you just said my whole theory was baised or something and its bad? I dont actually get it. This is a nightless game. scum needs 5 mislynches in a row to win. if you lynch a scum then u even add one more mislynch. typically if u have a town block of 3 and lynching 1-2 scum (considering ur town block was accurate) you just PoE your way to win). even if you have at least 1 town read that is one less scum target. if someone was clearly town he cant die without scum going there and making thier hands dirty. town blocs basically secures the town player's places where they belong.

Am I wrong?

I'm annoyed that I only have two townreads so far on page 5 (ZZZX and ABR) and it somehow feels like not much is going down. I wonder if this is the result of rust or the fact that half this thread is two guys or my general antsiness. Or a combination of all three.

(Bigger post coming up next after I finish rereading and thinking.)

We are missing EddieFenix, Hoopla, Sotty7, and Seraphim's post was such a non-entry that it actually might have removed information from the thread. He's my vote for coasting scum by the by.

But two of those were names I twigged as likely to token scum, alongside you and Nacho. Especially Hoopla, as tokening scum in this setup fits her profile.

well i will call this mini info post #1. but infact its all theory talk. also... where is the vote in this one?

Your ISO is a wasteland

A vast tract of sand and sun, devoid of life

Quantity<Quality, ABR has said more than you have.

Post4: No he... didnt. a single scum read doesnt help much in this kind of games frankly. he did do good stuff but nothing "amazing" yet.

You have 32 fucking posts for that

Stop spamming

Post3: Well technically "just that" included a third of the game. which is a pretty damn high number for that number of posts. noonetheless lets move on.

Hmmm,

Nacho

, why did interject regarding Grey's vote on Sotty before she'd posted?

Like you. You're interesting. You think.

Get metal sonic is like 14. And excited. Please chill.

post2: hmm.. so i think this is a null/town read on empire? or was it nacho? also random comment on metal

vote : sotty7

Serious vote.

Post 1: okey

Le Early PbPA: Read from bot to top

tl;dr:

GreyIce:

-only kind of content posts are about tokens this token that.
-0 talk related to what happened in the thread. he just went in to say my spam is crap then never read the thread it seems
-has done a few scumtells.
-overall scummy

[ZZZX]

Also pure theory talk^

[quadz08]

Votecount 1.3

Sotty7 (2) - GreyICE, Metal Sonic
wgeurts (2) - Silverwolf, Albert B. Rampage
Metal Sonic (2) - Empire, Seraphim
GreyICE (2) - ZZZX, Sotty7

Not Voting (4): EddieFenix, Hoopla, Nachomamma8, wgeurts

Deadline is 4/9 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-09 18:00:00).

[Nachomamma8]

This does not resolve the dissonance here. Your phrasing in #18 says that the playerlist was a direct cause of your assignation of tokens. I'm saying that's impossible because the playerlist was the last bit of information we got.

dude i used "and" not "so".

its a coordinating conjunction not a subordinating conjunction.
its not a subordinate clause. semantically i could go anal but im not that kind of person.


so...

i guess i will have to admit

that I lied! tee hee!!!

Why?

[Nachomamma8]

Hmmm,

Nacho

, why did interject regarding Grey's vote on Sotty before she'd posted?

I'm not interested in seeing it become a major point of discussion because it's a line of thought that's going to leave Grey tied up with stupid shit and Sotty annoyed with Grey, which will make them less effective as town and won't really end up putting either of them in a position that's even mildly uncomfortable if scum.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Silverwolf

[ZZZX]

my goal right now is to build a town bloc of any size. if we get that in a nightless its basically impossible to lose

I like this thinking. There are several players I am more than willing to bloc up with. (Hoopla, ABR, Nacho, Empire)

yea the activity is digustingly low for a game start

Well I work all day in a job where I have no internet access. Expect my posting to be around this time every evening, weekends are more accessible.

vote : sotty7

Serious vote.

Last time I played with her, she left the site (or almost left the site?) because she was tired of the paranoia following her around because of her scum game. I doubt she has enough confidence or desire to play around that paranoia when it's correct/deal with the added pressure of getting lynched.

Yeah this is true. I've pretty much stopped playing for the most part unless I get the itch and find a game/player list I really like the look of. I'm playing in Team Mafia because our team won all our games in the last one but were only beaten by The Captains on points so Zor gave us an auto in for this one.

i want to know if Hoopla can be considered a "legendary scumhunter"

lol

I like ZZZX a lot. My strongest town read at this point. Actively searching and making some good points (#82 wegurts discrepancy in voting ABR and not GreyICE) and his idea to form a voting bloc is something I'm all about

ABR is also probably town here. Passion in his posts. If he isn't it will show over time, he becomes extremely apathetic when scum.

Empire can be town also for post 105. Thinking the same thing.

Vote: GreyICE

Because "tokens" is bullshit and voting me over Hoopla in that respect is even worse.

You claimed to be voting me because I was likely to use tokens to make myself scum. That is untrue, it is pretty well known I favor town if any tokens were to be spent on me it would be in that direction as Nacho hinted at. Not only that but you said that Hoopla was more likely to push a token scum draw than myself yet your vote is on me. Why me over her? You're going after the weaker of the two options you listed for yourself and that's not the GreyICE I remember at all.

Vote: Silverwolf

Allow me to ask...

Why?

I hate pointless votes without explanation at this stage of game. There are a few wagons that actually somewhat started but yet you are here contributing ... nothing with this vote? not even any kind of reasoning?

your town points in my opinion just went down a bit

[Metal Sonic]

Hi. Sonic resolves to make a post a day. This will be uncreatively called "Sonic's post of the day". It will be done on a computer. Sonic will only phonepost if there is a very pressing issue at hand that requires urgent response. This is a difficult resolution for me (for those who are familiar with me) so I hope you guys understand.

Neato. I'm going to assume I'm not being Epic Trolled right now and ask you what was your motivation to lie.

@Metal Sonic-Why did you feel the need to lie about your token selection for this game?

This does not resolve the dissonance here. Your phrasing in #18 says that the playerlist was a direct cause of your assignation of tokens. I'm saying that's impossible because the playerlist was the last bit of information we got.

dude i used "and" not "so".

its a coordinating conjunction not a subordinating conjunction.
its not a subordinate clause. semantically i could go anal but im not that kind of person.


so...

i guess i will have to admit

that I lied! tee hee!!!

Why?

I have no good reason for lying. It is an action that I perform as town, scum, and out-of-game. Fortunately, most of them are jokes and obvious jabs, therefore white lies which do not violate my basic principles. In short, it is an irrational action.

However, occasionally I lie on purpose. The intention is usually to protect a piece of important information, that may be disadvantageous to my cause if revealed publicly. In the current context, this is because my team wishes to keep our token distribution secret.

I'm here.

Vote: Metal Sonic

If I can make this happen, it will save me me so many headaches.

Who are you? I do not remember playing with you before.

How are you so confident on nacho already, I've got a light town read however the early game certainty is astonishing.

i was exaggerating. You should have inferred this from the quote "by virtue of being nacho". From your shallow question, I can infer that you are a weak scumhunter, if not scum.

Vote: Silverwolf

Serious vote.

Guessing you're not going to explain why.
VOTE: ABR
We're in a nightless and all info is relevant, hiding it is anti-town. I'm going to vote you until you say it was a joke or explain why it's serious.

I want to know the justification for wgeurts calling ABR out, but not GreyICE for the exact same action post.

I still think SW is scum and NOBODY tells me what to do. Nobody fucking strongarms me.

I don't give a flying fuck what you think.

Hell yeah. Badass. ABR is town; I believe that a generic scum would be careful not to draw much attention to himself. The above post is a good example of the opposite.

I don't give a flying fuck what you think.

Its a damn nightless. If you are acting like that then you dont deserve to live to lylo. thus you are a valid lynch.

simple as that.

With users like GreyICE, Nachomamma8, EddieFenix, Hoopla (contentious) and myself in the game, I don't think it's necessary for us to get to Lylo. If we are able to establish with confidence that the strongest players in the game are town, the Nightless will be a swift Town win.

Meanwhile, as for yourself, please continue to maintain your "townreads" from others. Personally, I don't think you can survive till Lylo either.

vote : sotty7

Serious vote.

@wegurts why did u ignore this post when its the same?

@wge answer my question

Exactly my thoughts. This means that ZZZX gets town points. The imaginary ones, y'know?

vote : sotty7

Serious vote.

@wegurts why did u ignore this post when its the same?

As I don't know GreyICE and it looked like one of those fake sarcastic funny RV reasons.
ABR on the otherhand is someone I've played quite a few games with, so I wasn't sure wether he was also joking.
Hence I asked him, I also said that him just saying it was a joke would be ok.
To be truthful I was hoping somebody would pounce on what you pointed out and push me, I was hoping on a reaction test but hey.

I'm also very weary of mis-lynching ABR.

This is a poor explanation. Apart from the fact that arguing from a meta perspective is poor, wgeurts fails to justify the following aspects of his action:

1. GreyICE and ABR performed exactly the same actions, apart from voting different people and having a different name. Why exactly did wgeurts phrase his post in such a manner: "We're in a nightless and all info is relevant, hiding it is anti-town. I'm going to vote you until you say it was a joke or explain why it's serious." a general sweeping statement "all info is relevant" while not addressing the personal aspects of why he voted ABR.

2. wgeurts is hypocritical when he mentioned "I'm going to vote you until you say it was a joke or explain why it's serious." Apart from voteparking being an extremely scummy action, the fact that he calls out ABR for being "anti-town." reflects his shallow attempts at scumhunting. This is the second time that I have observed wgeurts perform shallow scumhunting.

ABR, I also know you are

very

aware of your own meta. ...

I find it appalling how wgeurts refers to ABR in such a manner. A quick information check shows that Wgeurts joined late 2014, while ABR has been here since 2007. In addition, Wgeurts has 1500+ posts, while ABR has 10 times that.For this reason, I strongly agree with ABR's point that wgeurts is being disrespectful, and in fact this translates into scumminess for wgeurts as he does not make an obvious attempt to determine ABR's alignment.

Additional, I find it shocking how it appears that wgeurts expects ABR to respond nicely, when wgeurts initiated an attack with rudeness and obvious hypocrisy, as shown above.

UNVOTE:
That's a genuine point.

I find it distressing how wgeurts unvotes shortly (less than 1 page) after the backlash and reversal by ABR. This shows a lack of conviction on wgeurts' part, in failure to pursue ABR in order to reach an intended result or signs of a definitive alignment. wgeurts' did not proclaim that "ABR is town, I am done with my testing" or words of a similar impact before his unvote, rather he unvoted due to ZZZX's "That's a genuine point.". It appears that nothing constructive was gained from wgeurts' antagonization of ABR, and this further highlights the superficiality of wgeurts' actions.

@Empire
I don't know SilverWolf well enough to judge wether what ABR said is true. I said I would unvote after he gives a reason and he did so, so I unvoted.

In this post, wgeurts explains his unvote. Fair that he has obtained his intended result "A reason for a vote on Silverwolf", but what exactly is the rationale for wanting "only a reason"? Note that wgeurts makes no judgment on whether he is town or scumreading ABR at this point yet.

Fortunately, he clarifies it in here:

ABR my gut says is town.

Unfortunately, scum have daytalk (This is public information). If wgeurts is hypothetically scum, he would have had coaching from *possibly superior* teammates. Therefore, I feel that retroactively resolving logic does not net him as much town points as it would normally have.

<reads snip>

May I know why your readslist does not include wgeurts, one of the highest posters in the game, and GreyICE?

GreyIce:

-only kind of content posts are about tokens this token that.
-0 talk related to what happened in the thread. he just went in to say my spam is crap then never read the thread it seems
-has done a few scumtells.
-overall scummy

ಠ_ಠ

[ZZZX]

ಠ_ಠ

Did i miss anything? :>

I think i never saw him talk about anything other than tokens since hte begining of the game. no reason for town to just argue about it for...like forever.

Am I wrong?

[wgeurts]

Metal Sonic, I'm Dutch and English isn't my native language. If what you say is true then it's a matter of me not understanding the meaning behind your post.

[wgeurts]

This bugged me so much I've decided to respond to it:

1. GreyICE and ABR performed exactly the same actions, apart from voting different people and having a different name. Why exactly did wgeurts phrase his post in such a manner: "We're in a nightless and all info is relevant, hiding it is anti-town. I'm going to vote you until you say it was a joke or explain why it's serious." a general sweeping statement "all info is relevant" while not addressing the personal aspects of why he voted ABR.

If you didn't pick this up from the posts I made I'll explain this again:
I don't know ICE however I've played 4+ games with ABR as scum and town. We've had a tendancy to clash in nearly all of these games which led eventually to the mis-lynch of him or me. I wanted to avoid this again so I decided to provoke him into playing out of his usual style. I'm hoping that doing so will lead to play that will reveal his alignment clearly to me. It was a reaction test you can say and two: GreyICE seemed to be making a joke, knowing ABR I however wasn't sure. If you read I also stated it was fine if he just explained it was joke RVS reasoning. In a nightless all info counts, I'm also wanting an explanation for Nacho's vote.

2. wgeurts is hypocritical when he mentioned "I'm going to vote you until you say it was a joke or explain why it's serious." Apart from voteparking being an extremely scummy action, the fact that he calls out ABR for being "anti-town." reflects his shallow attempts at scumhunting. This is the second time that I have observed wgeurts perform shallow scumhunting.

Read above, didn't vote him because I though he was scum: I voted him as a reaction test because I want to sort him quickly without too much hassle. I also, dislike unexplained votes and yes they are anti-town (notice, not scummy, town do it as well as scum) IMO.

I find it appalling how wgeurts refers to ABR in such a manner. A quick information check shows that Wgeurts joined late 2014, while ABR has been here since 2007. In addition, Wgeurts has 1500+ posts, while ABR has 10 times that.For this reason, I strongly agree with ABR's point that wgeurts is being disrespectful, and in fact this translates into scumminess for wgeurts as he does not make an obvious attempt to determine ABR's alignment.

I've played quite a good portion of my games with ABR with him and me as both alignments. All of these have had direct interactions (often "clashes") between us. Ask me and I'll give you all the games, this accusation is false.

Additional, I find it shocking how it appears that wgeurts expects ABR to respond nicely, when wgeurts initiated an attack with rudeness and obvious hypocrisy, as shown above.

All explained above, also explained why I didn't do so for greyICE in an earlier post replying to ZZZX.

I find it distressing how wgeurts unvotes shortly (less than 1 page) after the backlash and reversal by ABR. This shows a lack of conviction on wgeurts' part, in failure to pursue ABR in order to reach an intended result or signs of a definitive alignment. wgeurts' did not proclaim that "ABR is town, I am done with my testing" or words of a similar impact before his unvote, rather he unvoted due to ZZZX's "That's a genuine point.". It appears that nothing constructive was gained from wgeurts' antagonization of ABR, and this further highlights the superficiality of wgeurts' actions.

I said I would vote until he gave an explanation and he did, I never voted him for scum reads or unvoted him for the backlash.

Now:
VOTE: MetalSonic
I do believe I also stated to ZZZX scum would pounce on the stuff you've pounced on as a sort of slayers gambit. You've attempted to falsely frame me, as expected from scum.

[GreyICE]

I think GreyICE is really stretching my scum game and is choosing to ignore my actual preferences to make his vote fit.

I apologize that I caught you for the wrong reasons. It was quite terrible of me. In my defense, you hadn't posted yet. Since you started posting, you've given me so many better reasons for voting you.

You're totally fucking scum. You seriously want me to vote Hoopla rather than you over a reason you think is "bullshit"? You talk about remembering me not "going after the weaker of the two options" and the only game we played together was that hideous abortion where me and Reck ended up yelling at each other for most of day 1 and then the site crashed?

[wgeurts]

vote : sotty7

Serious vote.

@wegurts why did u ignore this post when its the same?

As I don't know GreyICE and it looked like one of those fake sarcastic funny RV reasons.
ABR on the otherhand is someone I've played quite a few games with, so I wasn't sure wether he was also joking.
Hence I asked him, I also said that him just saying it was a joke would be ok.
To be truthful I was hoping somebody would pounce on what you pointed out and push me, I was hoping on a reaction test but hey.

I'm also very weary of mis-lynching ABR.

MetalSonic, here's me explaining my hopes earlier including that scum would pounce on this.
However team members say you have a tendancy to look like scum as town. I'm discussing it with them to be sure of my vote. However I do believe I've got my first "serious vote".

[Metal Sonic]

I don't know ICE however I've played 4+ games with ABR as scum and town. We've had a tendancy to clash in nearly all of these games which led eventually to the mis-lynch of him or me. I wanted to avoid this again so I decided to provoke him into playing out of his usual style. I'm hoping that doing so will lead to play that will reveal his alignment clearly to me. It was a reaction test you can say and two: GreyICE seemed to be making a joke, knowing ABR I however wasn't sure. If you read I also stated it was fine if he just explained it was joke RVS reasoning. In a nightless all info counts, I'm also wanting an explanation for Nacho's vote.

If you want to avoid this again, there is an option for you to swap positions with a teammate. On the contrary, if you were scum, it would be highly beneficial for ABR to be mislynched, rather, you would stay in and proceed to renact the same actions in order to encourage an ABR lynch.

It seems ironic how you wish to "avoid a clash" with ABR, yet you "provoke" him and start a quarrel? How protown that would be. Your words don't match up with your actions.

Read above, didn't vote him because I though he was scum: I voted him as a reaction test because I want to sort him quickly without too much hassle. I also, dislike unexplained votes and yes they are anti-town (notice, not scummy, town do it as well as scum) IMO.

Yes, reaction test, reaction test.

All explained above, also explained why I didn't do so for greyICE in an earlier post replying to ZZZX.

In order to prevent a "clash". I dunno, this is ABR and your domestic matter. As far as I am concerned, from an outside perspective you are performing actions that are contradictory to your intentions, which is a scummy action. Furthermore, in your interactions with other players, your scumhunting is shallow and superficial. Those are scummy as well. In all, you're scummy.

I do believe I also stated to ZZZX scum would pounce on the stuff you've pounced on as a sort of slayers gambit. You've attempted to falsely frame me, as expected from scum.

Slayer's Gambit.



I enjoy how your read on me has taken a 180 degree turn after I have put just a little pressure on you. There's more where that came from; a read reversal in response to powerful attacks are usually indicative of scum defensiveness.

[Metal Sonic]

Currently, I'm having wgeurts and Sotty as scumreads. At the moment, I feel that my vote on Sotty would be helpful to the efforts of GreyICE, and will assist him in his scumhunting endeavor.

[GreyICE]

Mod: Prods on EddieFenix and Hoopla please

[wgeurts]

I'm not avoiding a clash, I'm getting ABR sorted as quickly as possible by provoking him out of his usual flow. Once I've got a read on him I can avoid having a proper clash that last 1-2 days long.
Also:
Slayers gambit: A gambit where town plays summily trying to get scum to jump on them. I said a sort of slayers gambit as I wasn't intentionally playing like scum however I was aware scum would find a way to push me for it when the reasons are false.
So could you stop twisting my words, my intentions are to sort ABR as quickly as possible as I want to avoid clashes as town and I want to break his very strong scum game. While doing this I realised it would bait scum, so it became a reaction test as well. I haven't broken any intentions.

[wgeurts]

Haha, just realised you're also accusing me of OMGUS. I said my read on you is town as others said it was, however I also stated that it would change the second I saw content that said otherwise. Keep up the misreps.

[wgeurts]

ZZZX, Empire and Nacho are all town.
ABR my gut says is town.

MS I'm taking others words for him being town until I see him giving some content that says otherwise.

Here's my proof that you're misrepping yet again.
Happy with my vote now.

[wgeurts]

Your attack wasn't powerful, I literaly just tore it to shreds with past posts of mine as proof you're misrepping me.

[wgeurts]

ZZZX, you seem to know Metal. Would you call his play scum now? If not why?