Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[DeasVail]

Bulb, if you're town then I appreciate the advice, but I currently think you're scum for a number of reasons, not limited to you telling me what to do.

I have words to say on this.
I don't want to say them right now.

You may have elaborated on this later in the thread, but if you think I'm wrong then just tell me why. If you think I'm right then you can just say it.

I don't get what you mean here, so if you could explain in simple terms it would be much appreciated. I do also have a more detailed posts explaining my preference of choice.

Two gives double the protection on a person, extending the life of a successful protect.
A player, be it that person or an external benefactor, can claim it.

Plus ~reasons~.

My understanding is that the double protection will only be of benefit if there are two kill attempts on a player. Additionally, I see little benefit from the claiming of protects due to the number of possible causes of a lack of kill, including scum not getting the sign right, roleblocks, protects and who knows what else? I may be missing something, but I haven't seen anyone bring up anything yet that stops Choice 1 from being the obvious choice for me.

And this is something I'm beginning to feel repeatedly paranoid about, especially in regards to Choice 1 - that scum will either manufacture a situation where they don't use an Unmake and claim protection, or they go the other route and make everyone paranoid of that so that the net result of someone claiming truthfully about getting a message about being protected ends up being almost zero.

I feel that scum claiming protection in Choice 1 is unlikely and incredibly risky because if no one protected them I feel it will become obvious and yay confscum. If we're treating protect claims as anything alignment-indicative with Choice 2, then I agree, we're screwed.

Basically, by choosing two, it forces the scum to have to focus on the same person to get them killed. Unmake requires them to match the sign correctly to a player to kill them, right? So it forces them to stay away from potential protective targets unless they decide to pile all up.

In that sense Choose: Two

My opinion still is that one is better. In the scenario where someone protects someone, scum still need at least two people to pile up on them if we choose choice 1. The only difference with choice 2 is that they need 3 (and only if their target is being protected), and I feel like the scenarios where this will actually make a difference are limited and not super beneficial compared to the information that can be gained from Choice 1. I guess what I'm imagining is this. If scum want to kill someone and don't know that they're going to be protected, they're probably only going to be submitting one unmake on them, which would not work with either choice 1 or choice 2 in effect. If scum know or strongly suspect that someone is going to be protected they can still kill them with choice 2 in place, just with one extra unmake, or they can avoid them completely and aim for the protective role etc. I'm probably feeling less passionate about 1 > 2 than I was before, since scum having to use that extra unmake to kill someone they really want to kill does limit the damage they can do, but I still feel the potential information gained from 1 makes that choice better.

Oh it's been decided anyway. Never mind!

Look, I get that you're lost right now, but can you please not let yourself form judgements around who appeals to your emotional side.

Where exactly am I appealing to DV's emotional side in any of my interactions with him? :/

Yay I'm not crazy.

Bulba's also pretty town, just in case anyone's wondering.

Why?

--

Ffery, what are your/your team's thoughts on Bulbazak? Ceph tells me that Bulb is the sort of person who could be manipulative in such a way as scum and I think I might have only one game of prior experience with him? Anyway, it's a scumread I'm very interested in but I feel like in-thread thoughts on him have been very limited.

PEdit: Espe! Please don't be scum like people are saying you are!

[DeasVail]

Though how did you not know that it had started given that hito sent a daystart PM?

[Titus]

TSO, I asked you to read my posts because I felt you were misunderstanding me and I was repeating myself.

You think I lie for no reason???

The booze is for me tonight to try to make sense of this.

@DV, He asks questions, follows through on the answers and articulates his positions well. This is town Bulba.

[Espeonage]

nah I'm not and I can even proves it like right now.

1. If I was scum I'm fairly sure I would have noticed the game had started.
2. I actually spent token(s) on making myself town because I want to win TM.
3. The only time I don't choose scum when given a choice is when I really want to win or need to do it to eradicate choice meta. Both of those need me to be town.


Ok so what's happening? My team hasn't said anything game specific so I had no idea they were already playing as well. And who is calling me scum before I haven't even posted. That's like the most contrived thing you could even do.

I'm baning with OMGUS as soon as I find out who it was.

[Espeonage]

I didn't get a daystart pm.

[Espeonage]

Ok just looked. I did get a daystart pm. But I hadn't read it.

[Espeonage]

TSO, I asked you to read my posts because I felt you were misunderstanding me and I was repeating myself.

You think I lie for no reason???

The booze is for me tonight to try to make sense of this.

@DV, He asks questions, follows through on the answers and articulates his positions well. This is town Bulba.

That sounds like null bulba. Pls don't declare things that aren't true.

hella yeah this game is gonna be easy.

[Titus]

Espy, twas a reaction test. The closest anyone claim to calling you scum was basically wondering why I wanted Mastina pressured over you when neither of you posted.

[Espeonage]

Ok well I don't get an easy bane vote then.

But you're lies about bulba stand.

[Titus]

TSO, I asked you to read my posts because I felt you were misunderstanding me and I was repeating myself.

You think I lie for no reason???

The booze is for me tonight to try to make sense of this.

@DV, He asks questions, follows through on the answers and articulates his positions well. This is town Bulba.

That sounds like null bulba. Pls don't declare things that aren't true.

hella yeah this game is gonna be easy.

Nah, scum Bulba is a lurksack who has trouble faking the same consistency of thought with tone.

[DeasVail]

@DV, He asks questions, follows through on the answers and articulates his positions well. This is town Bulba.

Yeah I'm sorry but this doesn't make me feel any better about him.

PEdit: Thanks Espe.

[Titus]

It's not conftown but I feel really good about Bulba.

[Espeonage]

The point is that he can(TM).

And you gonna tell me that someone with established tonal tells that drew scum in TM isn't going to fabricate posts carefully? That's just not respecting Team Mafia.

[Espeonage]

It's not conftown but I feel really good about Bulba.

Ok see, that is much better, well done.

For example, in a game where I have read half a page, you're the closest thing to a scum read.

[T S O]

There's some stuff I find pretty convincing against Bulbazak so far.

[DeasVail]

It's not conftown but I feel really good about Bulba.

How do you explain his ultra-weird post to me where he tells me I'm indecisive, lost and townreading people because they buddied me when none of this is true?

[Titus]

Well I have never done TM so I will suppose that he could be having help. His lower post count makes that more possible but the wuick reactions do not look like being coached.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree for now though on Bulba.

You think I am scum because we disagree on a read?

[Espeonage]

I didn't call you scum, you need reading comprehension.

The point I was trying to make is that you can spout a read but that doesn't mean it's right.

[Espeonage]

I've decided I'm going to sass this entire game.

[Titus]

It's not conftown but I feel really good about Bulba.

How do you explain his ultra-weird post to me where he tells me I'm indecisive, lost and townreading people because they buddied me when none of this is true?

I do perceive some buddying with you, from Marquis and then UT. Can't Tell if Marquis is actually buddying or not because of the exclamation points fogging that up. You commented on UT yourself a little.

So I don't see that post as wierd just a disagreement about perceptions.

We do tend to like people who like us, so the alarm isn't wierd.

[Untrod Tripod]

are you saying that I'm buddying someone, or that DV is buddying me?

[Titus]

You were possibly buddying DV.

[Untrod Tripod]

...where?

[Espeonage]

Hey Titus. Quick question.

Why is buddying of any importance when there has been no flip yet?

[Untrod Tripod]

no espe

let's go down the rabbit hole