13p Normal [TM2015]

[jasonT1981]

jason - when did you last play scum?

Outside of marathon games, Team Mafia 2013 I believe. I have hardly played in the last 12/18 months, I actually considered myself near enough retired from playing but our team from 2013 had an automatic entry so I decided to play.

Give me a bit and I will check for you.

[sthar8]

Hooray! I'll read up tonight after work. Or maybe today during work. Don't tell my boss.

[Fenchurch]

I do not know what the argument is so I have no opinion. I do not see much of a difference between me rolling a die and me saying "hey SK! What's up bud! Imma vote you now" or me saying "I hate people who's names start with the letter J, so it's time to vote Jason."

Here's a quote, with other similar explanations in the linked thread.

Because it might be that the player making it has more info available than he shows, and is avoiding to vote his mafia buddy, or is trying to get the VI lynched, or whatever. 'Random' votes should definately NOT be random, and the Random Voting Stage is the worst name for the beginning of the game we could possibly have.

The problem with a vote made with the use of dice is that it is provable random. The player making the vote can not possibly have had ulterior motives for who he voted. Because of this, the vote can't be used to start discussion, and is therefore completely useless. And making completely useless posts at a point in time when pro-town players should do everything in their power to get discussion started is definately anti-town.

Joke votes aren't much better, but at least you make the decision on who to joke vote, and so will be open to [subconscious] influence if you have any extra information about the game (e.g. if you are scum).

[Micc]

I'm a little put of by the fact that Dragons is excited to play the game but isnt willing to help move us into the actual game.

I don't see how I'm not. If I were to join on the jason wagon I would be dishonest. I have no reason to move my vote quite yet.

What I am doing is trying to figure out Thor, trying to figure out your motivation based on your blatant sheeping without your own commentary and your nitpick shots like the post quoted, and thinking about the sleepykrew wagon that formed from my die roll.

I'm not asking you to vote a read you don't believe in.

I'm trying to figure out what you were doing at that point that was helping move the game forward.
I don't think throwaway posts with cute pictures in them helps move the game forward.
I don't see rolling a dice for a RVS vote as moving the game forward.
Ill concede to you trying to maybe figure out Thor even I don't think the one post you addressed at him at this point was particularly probing.
And I don't see you actively trying to figure me out...unless this post counts...but that would screw up the timeline.

[jasonT1981]

My last game was June 2014 and I was town http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=57689

This was my last scum game, a marathon King maker http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=1050
Another scum game back in 2013 the wire http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=25285

Team mafia as scum was 2012 actually - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=21919

Sorry, I did think TM was 2013 not 2012.

[jasonT1981]

Jason, are you concluding that you are town reading someone based off of 1 post said in the first 3 pages of the game?

Sorry, missed this post trying to find past games.

No, I was voting based on the fact he had done nothing to move the game forward but made accusations of others not doing it.

It seemed lazy

[SleepyKrew]

SleepyKrew - prob town

Why?

[Save The Dragons]

@Fenchurch: I feel that there is much discussion about what I think about that post that would just be irrelevant. So what do you think about my decision to die roll?

I don't think throwaway posts with cute pictures in them helps move the game forward.
I don't see rolling a dice for a RVS vote as moving the game forward.

Are you saying you've never done anything odd or random in the RVS?

What should I do about this? Show you town examples where I enter a game and do random things? Look at your meta and find out if every single post you've made moves the game forward?

I assumed you were comparing my play to yours, which was, before that post, sheeping.

Ill concede to you trying to maybe figure out Thor even I don't think the one post you addressed at him at this point was particularly probing.

A scum in a position of authority like Thor might seek to discredit other people. Thor has already appealed to his authoritative nature to discredit me. By calling him out I can figure out if he's closed-minded town or scum trying to slowly build a mislynch on me. I would not be surprised if he threw his hands up and voted me in the next couple posts of his.

And I don't see you actively trying to figure me out...unless this post counts...but that would screw up the timeline.

I was not actively doing so in thread, no, I threw that in there because as I was typing I realized your post made me go "hmmm"

[jasonT1981]

SleepyKrew - prob town

Why?

Any reason you continue to ignore people asking you for your thoughts/reads?

[jasonT1981]

Actually

vote: SK

While I do not see the initial posts as scum or scum motivated. The avoidance of giving any opinion of his own is telling

[SleepyKrew]

Yes, that's my genius strategy as scum
I plan on answering the stuff I haven't answered soon.

[Micc]

To be fair here, what exactly have you done to move the game forward, you came in and instantly sheeped Thor and followed up with this.

I laid a vote down that I believe in.
So thats something.

ok reading on... i get more criticism for not moving the game forward myself.

Sorry I guess? I made a meaningful vote and then starting a push on another player that im questioning the alignment of. Is my vote any less real because someone else had the same idea? Am I a terrible person because im too busy today to stalk the thread and interact with every single person?

And there are a pile of new posts. ill be back after class. Hopefully this game doesn't explode while im gone.

[SleepyKrew]

@SK - What has picked your interest right now?

Oh actually I'm not gonna explicitly answer this. I really want to say "It should be obvious," but instead I'm going to expedite the whole process and say everything I've commented on or questioned has interested me.

[Save The Dragons]

Unvote Micc

[SleepyKrew]

What DO YOU think of the Jason case?

Oh man I forgot to answer this too.

It should be obvious

I don't support it.

[SleepyKrew]

Looks like there wasn't actually anything worth answering that I skipped.

[Nexus]

Votecount 1.2:

jasonT1981 (4)-

Trojan Horse, Thor665, Micc, Fenchurch

Pieguyn (1)-

Boonskiies

SleepyKrew (1)-

jasonT1981

Not Voting (7)-

Pieguyn, sthar8, Deltawave, SleepyKrew, Egg, Malakittens Save The Dragons

The deadline is at 6pm on Tuesday 14th April 2015. With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[Fenchurch]

SleepyKrew - prob town

Why?

I think your opening post of just 'Greetings', and your stubbornness in subsequent posts implies a position of confidence and ease, and I associate these things with town.

It's also possible that you are especially confident and at ease with being scum, and/or that you know these things will cause some players to town-read you, but it's more than nothing.

[Egg]

Mala, what is your read on Thor?

Not sure I like STD's... would you call it pre-OMGUS? He basically implies that if Thor votes him soon, he's scum.

The high percentage of dice talk in Fenchurch's posts feels weird too.

[Trojan Horse]

Okay, I'm back.

Sleepy, Tammy says she's not bothered by your lack of early voting. Eh, okay. I've still got my eye on you, but I won't vote for you now.

Looking at people's isos right now...

[SleepyKrew]

I didn't just mean ask them about me specifically. I want them to explain to you why "we can't scumhunt if one person doesn't do RVS" makes no sense.

[Trojan Horse]

I didn't mean that one person not doing RVS prevents the team from scumhunting. I meant that doing RVS helps the team scumhunt, and not helping the team scumhunt is scummy.


Fenchurch, a message from my team: Tammy wants you to clarify your scum read on Jason.

Malakittens, who are you intending to vote right now? You voted SK, then voted micc, then unvoted SK.

Micc, you said your vote on Jason was a "sheep vote". What do you think about Jason now?

[DeltaWave]

VOTE: Egg

[Micc]

I don't think throwaway posts with cute pictures in them helps move the game forward.
I don't see rolling a dice for a RVS vote as moving the game forward.

Are you saying you've never done anything odd or random in the RVS?

What should I do about this? Show you town examples where I enter a game and do random things? Look at your meta and find out if every single post you've made moves the game forward?

I assumed you were comparing my play to yours, which was, before that post, sheeping.

If i did it was probably with the intent to get the game moving. If you want to look into my meta then be my guest.

Ill concede to you trying to maybe figure out Thor even I don't think the one post you addressed at him at this point was particularly probing.

A scum in a position of authority like Thor might seek to discredit other people. Thor has already appealed to his authoritative nature to discredit me. By calling him out I can figure out if he's closed-minded town or scum trying to slowly build a mislynch on me. I would not be surprised if he threw his hands up and voted me in the next couple posts of his.

Does that mean you have a scum read on him? Or am I jumping to the wrong conclusion?
If it is a scum read, what is it based on?

And I don't see you actively trying to figure me out...unless this post counts...but that would screw up the timeline.

I was not actively doing so in thread, no, I threw that in there because as I was typing I realized your post made me go "hmmm"

fair enough i guess. Are you still in this "hmmm" state of mind? I don't understand the unvote and how it ties in to your read on me.

Micc, you said your vote on Jason was a "sheep vote". What do you think about Jason now?

I don't understand his vote/unvote on me either. At least his was to move to sleepykrew which makes more sense than a straight unvote. I don't really agree that SK is avoiding giving an opinion.

[Save The Dragons]

If i did it was probably with the intent to get the game moving. If you want to look into my meta then be my guest.

Well you probably don't have to worry about me doing that, ain't nobody got time for that

I'm not going to get the game moving with every post I make. And I'll do it as town and I'll do it as scum. I play this game to have fun.

Does that mean you have a scum read on him? Or am I jumping to the wrong conclusion?
If it is a scum read, what is it based on?

I think I'm still waiting to see how our drama plays out

fair enough i guess. Are you still in this "hmmm" state of mind? I don't understand the unvote and how it ties in to your read on me.

I think my vote was reactionary. I want to think more about you and I don't think that you and Thor are scum together (and I'd like to consider Thor some more). I think I remember liking 86; my problem was a perceived double standard and your response seemed genuine.

You received a townread from one of my teammates so that's also a plus.