White Flag Mafia [TM2015] (Game Over)

[Equinox]

Vote Count 1.09

theelkspeaks (4) - Regfan, Aeronaut, Zachrulez, Oversoul
Cheery Dog (3) - Cogito Ergo Sum, Llamarble, Psyche
Psyche (3) - Antihero, Ankamius, theelkspeaks
Oversoul (1) - BlueBloodedToffee

Not Voting (2) - ika, Cheery Dog

With 13 alive, it will take 7 to lynch.

The deadline is Monday, April 13, 2015, at 9:00 PM EDT (UTC-4), which is in (expired on 2015-04-13 21:00:00).

[Zachrulez]

190 - Zach, you should explain that BBT vote now.

Can you clarify why you think Elk is scum?

Would love an explanation for your town reads on Psyche and Oversoul too.

The great thing is that unexplained town reads are probably more frightening to scum than anything, especially if they're on point.

Regfan basically got my reasoning in 161. Basically coming in so hard with a theory stance in regards to being anti-token I feel allows you to work your way into the game without really taking any position beyond that particular theory stance. Theory over alignment reading tends to take the game in a bleh direction.

I get the impression we have very different play styles (If my initial read is wrong.)

At this point Elk's only real position in this game was to decry an early bandwagon as the game was coming out of the RVS stage. I see very little from him beyond that. 'This wagon is suspicious, I'm going to get to the bottom of this.' Followed by nothing. That's the kind of empty that scumbags come from.

My initial impression of the TTH/Antihero swap is TTH swapped out of a scum role. Antihero's swipe at me seems more aimed to try to discredit me than have any actual suspicion behind it, and that's only strengthening my feeling on the matter.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

The great thing is that unexplained town reads are probably more frightening to scum than anything, especially if they're on point.

Regfan basically got my reasoning in 161. Basically coming in so hard with a theory stance in regards to being anti-token I feel allows you to work your way into the game without really taking any position beyond that particular theory stance. Theory over alignment reading tends to take the game in a bleh direction.

I get the impression we have very different play styles (If my initial read is wrong.)

At this point Elk's only real position in this game was to decry an early bandwagon as the game was coming out of the RVS stage. I see very little from him beyond that. 'This wagon is suspicious, I'm going to get to the bottom of this.' Followed by nothing. That's the kind of empty that scumbags come from.

My initial impression of the TTH/Antihero swap is TTH swapped out of a scum role. Antihero's swipe at me seems more aimed to try to discredit me than have any actual suspicion behind it, and that's only strengthening my feeling on the matter.

Unexplained town reads need explaining. I'm not sure how unexplained town-reads are the most frightening thing for scum either...especially if one of your unexplained town reads is actually on scum.

Agree regarding theory.

Speed of elk wagon is bad, no? Also, look how ugly it is. (You're part of the ugliness)

I don't think Anti would swap

into

a scum-role. In fact, I'm pretty damn sure of it.

[Zachrulez]

I would like the reason for the swap explained. I don't like that it hasn't been.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I would like you to explain your reads.

[Zachrulez]

I doubt you would be satisfied with any explanation from me.

If my town reads are wrong and you have a compelling reason why they're wrong, I'm not exactly going to not rethink them just cause.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Try me.

[Antihero]

I would like the reason for the swap explained. I don't like that it hasn't been.

clarifying stuff w/ zor at the moment. hold onto your britches.

you are talking out your ass when you speculate we swapped so i could take over a SCUM role (lol). ESPECIALLY on a team w/ etl, tth, and sthar8.

your reads are terrible and if you're town you need re-evaluation. badly.

[Antihero]

we switched b/c tth needed to take the wheel in the game i was in

that's all the detail i can go into

[Zachrulez]

I would like the reason for the swap explained. I don't like that it hasn't been.

clarifying stuff w/ zor at the moment. hold onto your britches.

you are talking out your ass when you speculate we swapped so i could take over a SCUM role (lol). ESPECIALLY on a team w/ etl, tth, and sthar8.

your reads are terrible and if you're town you need re-evaluation. badly.

Ok.

[Llamarble]

I have to admit Cheery's ISO so far is neutral at worst. Still the best choice if forced to lynch this instant.

I can make Cheeryscum work in my mind more easily than most others at this point.
Aeronaut scum also makes a lot of sense. Ankamius can be #3 for now.

None of those three people have interacted with either AH or his predecessor; AH if you can get one, I'd appreciate a dump of whatever thoughts TTH had regarding those 3 players before he left.
AH slot :could: be scum but I have no actual problems with them so far. Same goes for CES.

[Zachrulez]

I would like the reason for the swap explained. I don't like that it hasn't been.

clarifying stuff w/ zor at the moment. hold onto your britches.

you are talking out your ass when you speculate we swapped so i could take over a SCUM role (lol). ESPECIALLY on a team w/ etl, tth, and sthar8.

your reads are terrible and if you're town you need re-evaluation. badly.

Ok.

Oh hey I just realized this post existed.

*is sad about the replacement*

The replacement occurred after my teammate copper told me to say hi to TTH and that he expects TTH is town and can carry the game.

VOTE: Psyche

fear not for tth will still be driving. i'm just doing the posting.

Urk.

[Antihero]

"urk" what?

[Ankamius]

Anak; Would like some reasoning or explanation behind your reads list in Post 139 specifically the reads on BTT, Oversoul, Llama and CES.

Quick note is that I posted before anyone else in my team had posted thoughts in the game.

BBT: I liked #52 and his #57 echoed what I thought about Aeronaut's post as well.

Oversoul: He felt town based on his interactions with Llamarble about the tokens; since I have a scumread on Llamarble independent of this, I'm putting more stake in this than I usually would.

Llamarble: He felt scum based on his interactions with Oversoul about the tokens. I didn't like this post either; the questions feel incredibly empty. The way he reacted to the 'scuffle' at the top of page 5 looks wooden.

CES: The way he posted towards you on page 2 pinged me; it's not very strong and I'm getting disagreed with in my PT, so it's virtually null at this point.

[Cheery Dog]

*is sad about the replacement*

The replacement occurred after my teammate copper told me to say hi to TTH and that he expects TTH is town and can carry the game.

VOTE: Psyche

Do you know where he got that expectation from?

[Cheery Dog]

Okay
I win a lot as town and one of the reasons for that is I don't ignore mechanics when figuring out the game. Scum got daytalk this round; we got tokens.
Maybe it will be clearer if framed differently. Suppose you have a cop that gets a correct result 50% of the time and a random result the other 50%.
That cop has a guilty on CD and an innocent on Regfan. I will need to be :twice: as sure of Regfan scum / Cheery town as normal to go against those results.

And yes, it is true that as scum, if somebody rolled town but used a scum token and admitted it, I would be absolutely gleeful for the free lynch. I have won games as scum following that kind of path.
Fortunately for you, I have a tendency to practically confirm myself as town via dayplay and have already made substantial progress in that direction.

So you're telling us your game plan? Are you really that confident to go on something that is still random even if it had weight.

[Cheery Dog]

As far as I am seeing, llama currently wants to treat me as a milker policy lynch, and I don't like it.

[Oversoul]

191 - Oversoul, firstly, I would have liked Llamarble to have the first chance of responding to what I said.

Then why didn't you specify that?

I'm not sure whether you're referring to the point I made against Llamarble or the discussion with Psyche that ensued.

The point about Llmarble and the token discussion. At that stage in the game, reads are going to be based off shitty reasoning. You seem incredulous to that fact?

192 - Ugh. I hate this post.

What was the purpose of it?

First level of inquisition: To see who had a scum read on you? Second level of inquisition: to hold people to that reasoning, for future reference.

199 - Oversoul, you're now voting Elk when you just previously stated that you don't see much scumminess from him? Nah.

Yes...
Wagons are a good thing, especially in a game as murky as this.

Does that surprise you?
For the record, Regfan's point is valid. Elk just... doesn't seem to be doing much of... anything.

We've never played together, have we, BB&T?

Oh ye of little research. I'd say the chance I get lynched this game has already dropped below 3%.

Speaking of free lynches, Cheery hasn't really attracted votes even though lynching him is the Right Thing To Do.
Impressive patience from the scumteam? Or maybe Cheery is actually just scum.

Why not Elk?

we switched b/c tth needed to take the wheel in the game i was in

that's all the detail i can go into

That's interesting. I thought something similar when I saw the switch.

Anak; Would like some reasoning or explanation behind your reads list in Post 139 specifically the reads on BTT, Oversoul, Llama and CES.

Quick note is that I posted before anyone else in my team had posted thoughts in the game.

BBT: I liked #52 and his #57 echoed what I thought about Aeronaut's post as well.

Oversoul: He felt town based on his interactions with Llamarble about the tokens; since I have a scumread on Llamarble independent of this, I'm putting more stake in this than I usually would.

Llamarble: He felt scum based on his interactions with Oversoul about the tokens. I didn't like this post either; the questions feel incredibly empty. The way he reacted to the 'scuffle' at the top of page 5 looks wooden.

CES: The way he posted towards you on page 2 pinged me; it's not very strong and I'm getting disagreed with in my PT, so it's virtually null at this point.

This isn't as helpful as I hoped it would be.

I would like the reason for the swap explained. I don't like that it hasn't been.

clarifying stuff w/ zor at the moment. hold onto your britches.

you are talking out your ass when you speculate we swapped so i could take over a SCUM role (lol). ESPECIALLY on a team w/ etl, tth, and sthar8.

your reads are terrible and if you're town you need re-evaluation. badly.

Ok.

Oh hey I just realized this post existed.

*is sad about the replacement*

The replacement occurred after my teammate copper told me to say hi to TTH and that he expects TTH is town and can carry the game.

VOTE: Psyche

fear not for tth will still be driving. i'm just doing the posting.

Urk.

[Aeronaut]

Psyche and BBT, your back and forth isn't helping at all, the both of you two are just repeating the same things over and over and not actually going anywhere and don't find either of your arguments particularly useful in determining alignment. Would prefer you both drop it and discuss your own reads elsewhere right now.

Cheery, will settle with an explanation for either of the two town reads you've stated, don't care if it's based on weak shitty reasoning, just want to hear it.

It all just felt relevant. I also think I've probably grown a bit less concise over the course of the last year or so.

Fair enough, any of the town reads of mine you disagreeing with at all?

Also worth stating that my team thinks that Aeroaut fits "Wallflower scum" in that his posts his posts really just leave him in the background but don't think he makes sense with Elk as scum since don't think he'd buss D1 in this setup and more confident on Elk being scum here, want to know what you think of the two of them individually / as potential partners at the moment cause that's kind of messing up our reads a little right now.

I just need to settle in more, really. Haven't played with the majority of the PL.

Open challenge to everyone: Justify a town read on Psyche.

You cannot use "he posts a lot" or any variation thereof.

Go.

IIRC, Psyche doesn't have much of a difference between his scum and town game. I wouldn't really call him town right now, though.

VOTE: Theelkspeaks

Explain this vote.

*is sad about the replacement*

The replacement occurred after my teammate copper told me to say hi to TTH and that he expects TTH is town and can carry the game.

VOTE: Psyche

Do you have any sort of reaction to your wagon?

So guys, how does ika have 4 votes already? Like he's kinda not saying much of anything useful, but I don't see anything abysmal in his posts either, it feels more like "pre-game banter" from a player who doesn't have reads yet.

I'm keeping a moderately suspicious eye on this wagon.

This is definitely questionable but it is hard to separate n00b flavor from scum flavor.

Elk, what is your opinion of Cheery Dog? Also, why would an analysis of the votes for ika take a long time? There are like 100 posts in this thread and only 4 votes for ika.

Getting to Cheery in a second, but the problem with the ika votes is that none of them look especially bad to me, so I'm considering the ika-voting players more closely and trying to get more to read them on.

*is sad about the replacement*

The replacement occurred after my teammate copper told me to say hi to TTH and that he expects TTH is town and can carry the game.

VOTE: Psyche

Mostly because TTH is my strongest townread and while struggling to find scum so far, I can back the scumread of my strongest townread with a vote.

All three of these actually sound kinda town

They really don't. They look very manufactured to me, and you should see that too.

[Oversoul]

Yes...
Wagons are a good thing, especially in a game as murky as this.

Does that surprise you?
For the record, Regfan's point is valid. Elk just... doesn't seem to be doing much of... anything.

We've never played together, have we, BB&T?

[ika]

BBT tell me why elk is not any less scummy then phyce cus phyce is hard town to me right now and i have seen 0 scum hunting from elk so i find your reasoning to be flawed

[Ankamius]

Ankamius can be #3 for now.

Can you go into more detail here please?

[Llamarble]

Starting to get giddy feelings about Cheery + Ank + Aero scumteam. RAWR! Certainly I don't mind the three of them posting in a row after some worried discussion in their QT.
If the plan is to attempt a lynch on me before I cause too much damage, I almost want to link some of my past games to show you where that leads, but I'll settle for laughing evilly to myself.
I really don't think you'll even get a chance to start though - I'm expecting a Regfan post declaring me irreversibly confirmed town anytime now.

Hey Aero why don't you tell me about how Elk manufactured this:

*is sad about the replacement*

The replacement occurred after my teammate copper told me to say hi to TTH and that he expects TTH is town and can carry the game.

Regfan you're allowed to answer this as well if you still believe in Elkscum.

Ank, at this point I literally have some manner of townread on everyone except you three. Finding my play so far this game scummy is ridiculous, and the way you refer to your teammates is exactly the way I used my teammates in previous team mafia (as I described earlier in this thread).

[Ankamius]

Okay. What do your teammates think about this game so far?

[Llamarble]

Nacho's the only one who has posted anything about it.
He mostly agreed with my early reads but said ika was probably town, and would eventually be super obvious if scum.
He thought Cheery admitting his scum token seemed town.
He thought TTH scumreading ika was cause for concern.