13p Normal [TM2015]

[Trojan Horse]

I figured if he is scum, we'd have a hard time figuring it out unless we pressure him right away. Maybe he didn't need so much pressure after all.

I'm trying to find the words to justify why it bothers me, I guess the closest I can come up with is: if you really think his scumplay is laudable, why would he be so easy to catch?

I don't think he would be so easy to catch. He has looked fairly townish lately. He could be a townie who just made an awkward first post, or he could be scum who has recovered well from an early slip-up. My scumread on him is weakening, and I need to be careful of that. He can be quite a capable scum.

However...

Also, as for my top scum read, it's obviously Jason. Even before he went and started being ignorant and making flawed cases. This just confirms it even more for me. He's posting things that are ridiculous towards me. Like my RVS when I was confused about why people were unvoting everything? COME ON! I'm the Boonskiies here! Look me up. I'm the craziest person out here. Like I always say...usually it's scum who isn't familiar with me who automatically pushes towards me.


VOTE: Jason

Oversoul told me that he thought you might be scum, so I decided to ask for your top scumread and see how you reacted. And I don't like your reaction. This vote looks like a vote from scum, trying to seize the opportunity to quicklynch town. Plus, this looks like an attempt to make us ignore any scummy behavior on your part. "Oh, that's just Boon being Boon." Right...

Again, hi. Jason...My name is Boonskiies. I'm known to hammer my biggest town read on occasion without letting them claim in a moment's notice. Mainly when I'm town! Me OMGUS'ing is nothing.

Duly noted.

UNVOTE: jason

VOTE: Boon

[Egg]

Boon, my team wants to know some of your reads. They feel you are playing to your scum meta and they don't like that you defended yourself with self meta.

Sthar, read my posts to STD and you should see why I feel the way that I do. Your response about Delta and Fenchurch kind of misses my point. Easy stances weren't all I mentioned. I thought some of your questions had obvious answers (Boon) and you were trying to appear to contribute rather than find scum (the Fenchurch and Delta things). I'm not sure how you took that to mean every one of those bullet points fell under the "easy stances" part of that. But to answer your question, no, I don't find Boon's answer to that question useful at all unless I'm somehow wrong about what he meant.

Boon, I kind of agree with my team here. You seem to overdo the "I'm a VI" thing as scum and just kind of roll with it as town. Here, I feel like you are overdoing it.

Mala, why are you concerned with being connected to Micc?

[Malakittens]

I'm not. I want to know how she's forming these reads. If they are connected to a possible flip or if they are independent

[Egg]

Interesting thing to pick out if that's the case. The only other thing you've said about Fenchurch's reads is this:

I'd be interested in this "scumread" you got on me actually. If you could flesh that out it would be grand.

Typically, I'd ask about more than someone's read on myself if I'm concerned with the development of their reads.

[Malakittens]

Well she explained some of her other reads. As I previously explained that I throught she could be a bit bitter still from Wicked. So I wanted to know the base of her read.

[Egg]

Ok

[Save The Dragons]

VOTE: Thor

[SleepyKrew]

Intriguing.

[Egg]

Intriguing.

[Save The Dragons]

Isn't it just?

[SleepyKrew]

Okay the suspense is killing me!

[Save The Dragons]

You'll have to wait

I'll post my case when I have time; in the meantime I have nothing better to do with my vote.

[SleepyKrew]

Oh that's just not fair.

[sthar8]

Doing this now, everything else tomorrow.

Your response about Delta and Fenchurch kind of misses my point.

No. You said that I'd either taken an easy stance or asked an obvious question about delta lurking, which is factually untrue. You also said that I'd either taken an easy stance or asked an obvious question about asking fenchurch to post an updated readslist, which is

also factually untrue

. Do not pretend you have some salient point regarding your failure to read my post.

I thought some of your questions had obvious answers (Boon)

So the answer boon gave me ("we have prior experience together and pie is good at reading me") should have been obvious to me, a player with no experience with either pie or boon? That's nonsensical. Further, the point of the question was that boon's townread appeared flippant and poorly thought out. I thought (and still think) that it's possible he was trying to buddy pie. By asking him to explain, we get full details that are either stretching logic or revealing his thought process, and pie can help determine which. From pie's comment, she believes that boon is stretching his logic. I don't know about you, but in my book that's valuable information.

and you were trying to appear to contribute rather than find scum (the Fenchurch and Delta things).

Asking jason how he felt about delta lurking as compared to me 'lurking' let me know right now whether he was concerned about lurkers in general or my missed deadline in particular. In other words, whether he's exercising a policy based on theory or just looking for some irrelevant bullshit to push me on. It could also be valuable as an associative later on, as it could indicate a connection between jason and delta.

Wrt Fen, I was uncomfortable with the reads list in 65. Particularly, the townread on skrew (who has been pretty null so far, I'm waiting on more content to sort him. I think he even commented to that effect himself), the scumread on jason, and the push on STD. But a few posts later, her explanations of those things made me feel much better about her. They were perspectives different from my own but still cogent. That makes any further information she wants to offer valuable.

Wrt Thor/STD, if you needed more explanation, you could have asked. A laconic post does not indicate a lack of justification, especially when I also explicitly indicated that I wanted to be asleep. As it is, I think your hasty conclusion indicates that you're fitting evidence to your suspicion, and not the other way around. Same with the factual inaccuracies that you insist are somehow relevant and the incorrect plural in your reasoning.

[Egg]

I already answered about the Fenchurch and Delta things. They read as trying to appear to contribute rather than truly find scum.

On Boon, he was getting at the fact that Pie knows he is mislynch bait as town so if Pie was town, why list Boon as a town read? It felt obvious to me, but then again that could be because I've played three recent games with Boon so meh. Still, he admitted that was a weak read and you (you're not the only one) are acting like he said Pie was confirmed town for that.

I'd be absolutely shocked if Jason was dumb enough as scum to push you as a lurker vote with a scumbuddy who is a worse offender of the same thing. That's just asking to be connected later on. Even if you haven't played with Jason, surely you realize this is a strong playerlist.

I'll let Fenchurch answer instead of discussing that reads list further.

Ok, so why is Thor vs STD town vs town then?

[Fenchurch]

He has looked fairly townish lately. He could be a townie who just made an awkward first post, or he could be scum who has recovered well from an early slip-up. My scumread on him is weakening, and I need to be careful of that. He can be quite a capable scum.

Huh, I have the opposite reaction. I feel more sure that jason is scum, and would love to see his lynch...

Boon is someone you do not want around late in the game, he has proven he is a liability and there is no town motive from him in anything he has said so far. Do not let him get anywhere near to an end game situation if you truely want town to win this game.

This doesn't seem jason actually believes Boon is scum - scum aren't a 'liability' to the town, and the point about endgame sounds more like he is talking about a town-player who might make the wrong choice.

I was asked about how I feel about my wagon earlier, the one thing that I find interesting, and quite concerning is there actually is no viable counter wagon. This wagon on me seems very driven without consideration to anything else. I can handle the wagon on me, the fact there is little alternative cropping up still is concerning though, leading me to believe there may well be scum motive somewhere on my wagon.

I can't see why any town player would look at their wagon like this. The point about counter-wagons seems basically irrelevant. I would expect a townie to look at the players voting him, look at their reasons, and try and figure out whether each of those are scum or town reasons. But I don't get the impression that jason is doing that at all. And "there may well be scum motive somewhere on my wagon" is about the most non-committal statement ever!

[Fenchurch]

As for Boon. I'd rather he gave the 'I'm crraaaazzzzyyy' stuff a miss, but my instincts were to ignore that as null. I thought this point he made seemed reasonable:

Boon why do you have such an issue with Jason calling out your RVS vote out of RVS stage, but when I called it out it got ignored?

It's how he went about doing it. He didn't start doing it until

after

he decided to "scum" read me.

I also thought jason's three-post-vote on Boon seemed really deliberate and forced.

But I've got no experience with Boon, and it is possible that Egg-team's points about his meta, in #201 are valid…

[Fenchurch]

Other things... I think Egg's play seems good and likely town.

I'll let Fenchurch answer instead of discussing that reads list further.

If there is something that I am expected to answer, I must have missed it.

I want Fench, STD and Pie to acknowledge/respond to my last set of posts.

It didn't strengthen my feelings either way, I still don't have a strong read. I agree with some of your points and disagree slightly with others, but nothing that seems important to discuss. I am curious what point Iec made and what you "seeing" in my posts.

Fenchurch, did I get bumped down? This is outrageous!

It's a degenerative system. If you don't do keep doing town stuff you to move closer to scum over time.

Teamtalk: Patrick thinks pieguyn is town, and aside from that, my team say that they will not share with us any more of their reads until we lynch jason, so really we'd best get on that

[jasonT1981]

This doesn't seem jason actually believes Boon is scum - scum aren't a 'liability' to the town, and the point about endgame sounds more like he is talking about a town-player who might make the wrong choice.

Major misrep here - the fact I outright state he has no town motivation for his postings indicates I believe he is scum. The fact I am starting to push it a bit more aggressively compared to earlier votes should also be proof I believe he is scum.

Scum are a liability to town. I don't know where you get that I think otherwise.

The fact he is willing to hammer anyone, even if he reads them as town is justification for him to be no where near end game.

More coming later, but due to being easter weekend will be slower this weekend in replying.

[jasonT1981]

I can't see why any town player would look at their wagon like this. The point about counter-wagons seems basically irrelevant. I would expect a townie to look at the players voting him, look at their reasons, and try and figure out whether each of those are scum or town reasons. But I don't get the impression that jason is doing that at all. And "there may well be scum motive somewhere on my wagon" is about the most non-committal statement ever!

I've already responded to those voting me about their reasons and I am leaving it at that.

As for the counter wagon point, I think it is a valid point that needs looked at.


As for chasing up scum on my wagon you will see

I have already given town reads on Thor and scum reads on both Micc and Boon

. And voted for both accordingly. Horse and yourself, Fenchurch are the only 2 I have not figured out as of yet read wise. So your point about me not chasing up those on my wagon trying to figure them out is another MAJOR misrep of what I have said.

I have given reads on 3 out of the 5 voters. So I don't know where you pulled the above from.

[jasonT1981]

I also thought jason's three-post-vote on Boon seemed really deliberate and forced.

What exactly feels deliberate and forced. In post #215 ( the post right before this post) you said I was doing nothing to chase up those on my wagon, yet here you are saying it feels forced and deliberate.

Is there no chasing up as you say in 215, or is it forced and deliberate as you say in 216?

[jasonT1981]

I'll post my case when I have time; in the meantime I have nothing better to do with my vote.

While i have you as town, I don't like the vote now, wait for my case mentality.

I am not suggesting you don't have reasons, it just seems like a vote first, and go back and find reasons later.

I don't think this is the case, but it does come across that way.

[jasonT1981]

Also, as for my top scum read, it's obviously Jason. Even before he went and started being ignorant and making flawed cases. This just confirms it even more for me. He's posting things that are ridiculous towards me. Like my RVS when I was confused about why people were unvoting everything? COME ON! I'm the Boonskiies here! Look me up. I'm the craziest person out here. Like I always say...usually it's scum who isn't familiar with me who automatically pushes towards me.


VOTE: Jason

I call complete and utter bullshit on this, you made NO mention of me being scum or showed any intention to vote me until I started looking into your behaviour. The only slight post you made on it was me 'slipping through the cracks' which you have yet to follow up on as to why you felt I was slipping through the cracks, without committing to a vote until after I voted you.

Your case is jack shit bollocks and full of OMGUS. In fact, I would go as far as saying you have nothing other than I think you are scum, and therefore you are voting me.

[Micc]

Prod dodge

I have to drive home today but I'll be here tonight.

[Save The Dragons]

I'll post my case when I have time; in the meantime I have nothing better to do with my vote.

While i have you as town, I don't like the vote now, wait for my case mentality.

I am not suggesting you don't have reasons, it just seems like a vote first, and go back and find reasons later.

I don't think this is the case, but it does come across that way.

Fair enough but I really am busy this weekend.

The short version is that I think his posts against me seemed forced and deliberately obstructionist. I will explain further when I have time.