Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Aronis]

My pagetop!

[Espeonage]

Asks fery's opinion. Votes against fery opinion when it also has support.

[Aronis]

Asks fery's opinion. Votes against fery opinion when it also has support.

Did you forget to quote a post or something?

[Titus]

Asks fery's opinion. Votes against fery opinion when it also has support.

Did you forget to quote a post or something?

Yes. Ffery hasn't explicitly given her boon choice I thought.

[Titus]

I have a ton of catch up to do sitewide because real life is kicking my butt this week. I'll firm up and explain my reasoning as soon as I can.

As of here, I still think she's undecided as she needs to firm up her reasoning.

[Aronis]

Asks fery's opinion. Votes against fery opinion when it also has support.

Did you forget to quote a post or something?

Yes. Ffery hasn't explicitly given her boon choice I thought.

She pretty much said it was vezok???

[Titus]

But then she says Cheetory also fits the profile...

Without knowing her thoughts, I cannot figure that out.

[Bulbazak]

Tier's saying he has a decent amount of experience with scumBulba and he's been telling me that townBulba will typically try to figure out people before become really stubborn and pushing for them, and he thinks the lack of Bulba trying to figure things out is uncharacteristic. He really really wants me to push this. o.o

To be fair, I've had a lot of things on my plate the last few days.

Am I the only one who finds Bulbazak's thought process here bizarre as fuck?

Bulba: "oh I'm mad that I made a post and hito locked the thread"
GIF: "you should have used the Back button"
Bulba: "meh didn't want it anyway"

Surely there'd be better ways to do this as scum, if I'd even say such a thing in the first place. Such a comment is guaranteed to draw attention. Focusing on such statements as a basis for a scum lean is also just silly.

But this post doesn't actually address any of my concerns about what is, to my eyes right now, you straight-up lying for no good reason.

"Surely there'd be better ways to do this as scum" - Sure. The point remains you did it. Scum don't play optimally 100% of the time.
"if I'd even say such a thing in the first place" - Well, that's irrelevant, seeing as you -did- say it.
"Such a comment is guaranteed to draw attention." - Yes, correct, but this is

still

pointing out simple logic rather than addressing anything.
"Focusing on such statements as a basis for a scum lean is also just silly" - Why is this? This is the only thing you said that has any relevance to my point.

I still don't understand why you made a post, then didn't post it, then moaned about not being able to even though it was easily retrievable with one click. I'm starting to believe this post never existed, because if it did, then your actions are so incredibly illogical that it's physically not believable for me.

So the only real question I have left to ask after this post is ...why are you lying to us? Because scum in a game like this really, really don't want to admit that they were caught in a lie, and your reaction fits that pretty well.

I never lied. I had made a post featuring a few preliminary reads and notes on my goals for the game, only to find the thread locked. Could I have backed up and copied my post? Yes, but there was no guarantee how long the thread would be locked (It was for several hours.), and I had other things to do. Making a document just to paste a post that was not incredibly important and could be duplicated if I felt like it didn't seem worth it. After Hito re-opened the thread, I quickly made a post with a focus on getting the most important thing submitted: my bane choice (i.e. a vote). At the end, I did include a reference to the thread closure: "Can I do this now, or is the thread going to close again?". Some people didn't like it, and that's fine, but it's frankly in the same category as those who didn't like Tammy's smiley. Calling me a liar because I didn't feel the need to copy a fairly basic post is out of order, as since then, all my thoughts expressed in that post have come out. Can you verify it? No, but I'm not really sure why that is such a major priority for you, as again, this seems like a pretty surface reason/point to build a scum case on.

@Gamma: My play style has been referred to as reactionary before, so really no surprise there. Do you have anything more substantial, or are you going to just dance around the surface.

I'm really not a fan of Aronis's read list. It feels thrown together and shallow.

I saw bulbazack online and hoped he'd post :/

I was either talking to my team or reading through this thread at the time. I think you saw my follow up.

Bulba: What do you think I did there?

Can't tell you, although I will say that I'm pretty sure it makes you conf. town.

I would have expected you to be a lot angier at me by now for basically forcing the Bane immediately onto you.

I'm not angry at you. I did find your bane to come out of nowhere, which did cause me to raise an eyebrow. Who I'm really disappointed for baning me are those who townread me and baned me over Gamma or Empire. I'm angry that I got baned, and that it is now going to make my job much more difficult. And let's not even get into the fact that due to the bane, I'm not even going to be considered for a boon which would actually make my job much easier, forcing me to go about things the hard way. I don't think it's going to matter in the long run, since scum will probably keep me around, but it is really annoying that I got screwed over like this because I dared to have a disagreement with a universal town read.

On that note, it's one of the reasons I was being iffy about my nullscum read on Tammy. I don't actually think I can read Tammy except in cases where she is being very town in her own way which isn't happening here.

Why do you not think she's being town here?

Whoever gets the boon is going to be a target for Mafia.

The boon is only active during the Minor night, which means that the information will already be out there when Mafia have to submit a kill. I'm not sure why scum would choose to kill the player who was booned over who they normally would.

So I think everyone needs to unvote. And then everyone needs to vote if they are ok with being booned. It spreads confusion for mafia over who is a PR and it also gives mafia wifom over if it is actually a good idea to go after whoever gets booned.

Actually, it gives scum a better idea who PRs are, as you are asking for volunteers. This is a horrible plan.

also

I think we might want to have 2-3 people we think are scummy say that they're detecting tonight to try to find Viktor- since traces always come up null for him we can start clearing people of being Viktor on a successful trace - I'm a bit wary of saying that we should immediately lynch someone tomorrow if they come up with a couple of trace fails in case scum have something that would make traces fail on other people but we can at least start clearing people of being Viktor in case he/she's wound up as one of the stronger players on their team and doesn't get lynched for a while.

But if you think these players are scummy, how could you count on them to even do what you say? I mean, isn't that sort of defeating the purpose?

I have a feeling I might need to actually read the thread.

Why haven't you?

Hey, who wants to talk about what we're doing with our two lynches tomorrow while Ffery and Friends ponder our Boonage?

I think it's fairly obvious who people are scumreading. Why do we need to plan things out? That's not going to be very informative in the long run.

Tammy, Sotty's not actually scumreading you; I just made that up and now I feel bad because you're getting so worked up over these scumreads! I hope we still have the chance to try and be the bestest friends forever after this!

Why would you make something like that up? I'm seriously not understanding why you would feel the need to lie about a Tammy scum read.

Speaking of, is it weirding anyone else out that Tammy is suddenly gaining scum reads like candy when it comes time to give out a boon?

I would actually be okay with booning certain groupthink scumreads or lurkers though in order to lessen the cost of nightkills because more often than not they're town!

Um...what? That actually seems like the worst possible plan. Why are people townreading/booning this guy?

Aronis

: Vaguely town, but I don't have anything more than that.

Why is he town?

TellTaleHeart

: I can not explain why but my heart says she's scum. It might be 731, but really I don't know and I don't expect anyone to listen to me (there's no way I would listen to me), but there's something about her that made me think, "this slot is scum", while reading her posts.

What is scummy about #731?

I'm curious as to why Shadoweh and TSO are both focusing on "what has Marquis done" instead of directly tackling any sort of read on me when trying to dissuade people from booning me! Their posts WRT me and the boon are so so similar that it almost doesn't seem crazy that they could be scum together getting hung up over people townreading me for reasons they think are dumb!

Wow! That discredit.

Am I the only one who's actually scumreading vezok?

No. Although I am bothered at how many of my townreads are townreading him. I'm wondering what they're seeing that I'm not. That does weaken the read a bit, but not enough to make me want to boon him.

Also, does anyone know if TTH prefers scum or is good at it? Regfan mentioned it in our convo just now and the swap might be something worth thinking about.

I really don't think their swap has anything to do with alignment. Although if you want to play that game, we can always talk about your swap.

You and Vezok both fit our profile for a good boon choice today.

And what is that profile exactly?

The general consensus is Vezok is town.

So? You know how bad the general consensus can be.

Boon Tammy

[Marquis]

Oh thanks for reminding me! Tammy is probably town but you totally aren't!

Good night everyone!

[Aronis]

Sorry to disappoint Bulba, but that's my readlist. I don't have time to write walls.

[Aronis]

Oh wait, nvm. You're just mad bc I caught you. Quit trying to discredit my reads!

[Titus]

Bulba, Logically yes the consensus Vezok being town means nothing and can suck. That's why I was asking for an explanation of why Vezok was being scumread.

Gamma's place fails for another reason. No PR can act without sign knowledge or lucky chance which means PRs likely will not trace but detect. Getting a positive trace is something that can be used later to analyze claims later but its not effective now. I think most realized that.

[Bulbazak]

Okay. So hard scum reads on Marquis and Aronis.

[Titus]

Okay. So hard scum reads on Marquis and Aronis.

Why? I like them both as town.

[Titus]

Aronis a l8ttle less so but...

[Titus]

What are you thinking of Mastina Bulba?

[Aronis]

Okay. So hard scum reads on Marquis and Aronis.

Oh wait, you're serious?

[Bulbazak]

Okay. So hard scum reads on Marquis and Aronis.

Why? I like them both as town.

Their reaction to my post stunk. I was actually nullish on them until then. Both actually haven't been doing much. If you look back at Marquis's posts, you'll notice that they are wordy with very little substance. If you think about, he says and does very little, and most of it is used to cast doubt. He's paranoid of the universal townreads, but we don't know why, because he tends to talk in circles. This is the third time he's tried to poke holes in the Tammy town read. The first was through "Oh! She could be fooling us, guys!", the second was by pointing out her scum win in the last Team Mafia, and this last time was through a team mate, who he then, surprise, says actually never said that and that he was lying. Why would you lie about something like that as town? It doesn't make sense. And when I ask him about it, he doesn't answer, and instead calls me scum for it. That's avoidance. And even though you defended him, he

was

calling Shadoweh and TSO scum for saying that he shouldn't be booned. He's not up for discussing things. In fact, his MO so far has been to shut discussion down. That's not town motivated.

As for Aronis, his posting is fluff, and his read list was unexplained and composed of easy reads. It's not scummy to say that I don't like it. The town response would be to ask why or to ask what reads I didn't like. He didn't do that. Ergo, scum.

What are you thinking of Mastina Bulba?

I still think she's likely to be town, but I really wish that she'd catch up already. I really want to dig into some of her reads.

[Titus]

Bulba, I really liked that conversation with Tammy. The Devil's advocate based in sound reason is goid. While I admit I didn't read them in detail, the interaction indicated some thing that Tammy was off on her own meta.

I see plenty of substance in his posts. I recommend during nightfall that you try to reboot with a cran vod. It's on thing to have a wierd read you are criticized forbut you seem to be disagreeing with a bulk of the game on a bulk of the reads while not being as present. Even if you are right, that pattern screams lynch me.

You did something similiar to the oh shit with the Vezok read. Marquis stating Tammy could be fooling us is the same thing as being wary of too much agreement.


The Aronis read flows quite a bit more. I can see the lack of substance but that's because he's hardly around. Rarely anything is fluff to me though.

I agree on digging into Mastina more but she should catch up or sub out soon. I literally just finished a game where one scum player lurked a good chunk of the game and no one lynched him.

[Bulbazak]

I actually don't think I'm that off center as others would have you believe. Granted, my reads may be a bit antiquated in places, and I'm really not holding onto some of them that tightly, but to say that I'm disagreeing with a bulk of the players is wrong.

[Titus]

That's my perception of things. It makes the most sense as to why so many people are scumreading you. At least that's when I tend to be wagoned.

[vezokpiraka]

(4) Marquis: Marquis, Aronis, Titus, TellTaleHeart [L-6]

Marquis is voting himself. This is ok.
Then comes aronis and TTH who are voting for marquis because ????.
Titus is the only ok vote here.

[Bulbazak]

I'm really not sure why we'd want Marquis to have the boon anyway.

@Titus: I've considered asking Mollie if she'd mind switching with me, as I know she'd have an easier time working with the players in this game, but I also don't want to dump her into a hole that I'm responsible for digging.

[mastin2]

Hey, know that spot of page 21? Still there. Briefly coming here, though, to say:

I honestly don't trust anyone enough right now to give them Boon.

Esp is scum regardless of what his alignment is.

Just saying.

And now, if you don't mind, I have a TON of reading to do.

[Titus]

@Bulba, I will reread later on Marquis. Talk it over with your team. I don't see your situation as unsolvable though.