13p Normal [TM2015]

[Boonskiies]

Pause

...that's the post you hate the most by Delta?

Unpause

Hold on, I'm catching up still, haha.

[Boonskiies]

I don't think you have legitimate reads. I think you're making it up.

I feel like your read on me is A) wrong B) terrible and C) ignores things I've said.

Alright, fine. Let me hit you in the balls with logic so hard you'll be picking fragments of your own testicles out of your teeth for weeks. Thor is supposedly your top scumread but you've done nothing but hedge on him so far (and complain about his attitude.) Your read came totally out of your ass, which is good because now there's more room in there for my foot.

See, there's stuff from Delta that I do like. Like this.

I mean, a lot of his stuff isn't alignment indicative in my opinion, and I feel he's just posting because he wants to post. Which I do A LOT as town. It keeps me in the game.

[Boonskiies]

I'm not saying he's town, but there's a reason I didn't vote him over Trojan.

[Save The Dragons]

I actually more hate the wording, you basically said you hate a post where he finally provides content to suss and point out only the readslist as bad.

I'm also confused...you think Delta is posting because he wants to post? But we've been playing for a week and he's only really shown up to the table yesterday.

[Boonskiies]

But that posts he comes in and actually does post. Anyone can make a post giving analysis. Anyone. I actually don't like it when people have so much analysis this early in the game. It's easily just summarizing what has happened, which anyone could do. I don't like the whole post in general that Delta did, not just the reads list. That's just what I commented on.

[Save The Dragons]

Nothing much. I think that's all I need as a scum case - it's pretty darn valid and also seems to have got you to sudden try to vote me - which looks scum reactionary rather than town deciding I'm right and voting me (illogical) or that I'm wrong and voting me (which hardly shows scum intent from me, since I'm not even voting you - making your case empty and weird)

...you do realize I was waiting days for you to come back so you could say something. Yeah I know you were on V/LA but I was waiting for anything from you to show you were town and I finally grew tired of waiting. My vote wasn't sudden, it was impatience.

Do you refer to you being right about me being dumb? If so, yes the first is illogical. If you're town, is the second seriously unwarranted? Call it arrogance on my part but if you look at me and after one opinion think I'm dumb then I think you're full of crap. Your responses to my inquiries on this front did not wow me. Hence I think you could be scum hard at work trying to discredit me. Is that the case? I don't know for certain, I kind of wish you didn't V/LA so I could have gotten a better opinion on you sooner.

[Save The Dragons]

I don't like the whole post in general that Delta did, not just the reads list. That's just what I commented on.

Okay, well now I know I guess

[Save The Dragons]

God who is this fucker that has 75 posts and claims he's on V/LA I'm going to murder him

[jasonT1981]

Trojan - earlier you mentioned that Tammy expected to be able to get a good read on jason. Has she read the game recently, and if so, what are her current thoughts?

She's following the game. She's still trying to figure Jason out.

It's weird you are still trying to work me out, and the fact you are hanging on for Tammy's opinion seems like you are stalling not wanting to say anything incase it derails the lynch, also if Tammy has experience with me, I (and this is backed up by Zach) would expect her to have something already this deep into the game or even something to say at least.

I brought up the point earlier of no viable counter wagon (at the time) It would heavily suggest 1) scum is already on it or 2) they are happy to just sit back and relax without anyone having to provide alternative options as to them, and others it would seem the lynch is a cert and nothing else has to be done.

[Nexus]

Votecount 1.7:

jasonT1981 (4)-

Thor665, Micc, Fenchurch, Trojan Horse

DeltaWave (1)-

SleepyKrew

Boonskiies (1)-

jasonT1981

Egg (1)-

sthar8

Malakittens (1)-

Pieguyn

Save the Dragons (1)-

Deltawave

Thor665 (1)-

Save The Dragons

Trojan Horse (1)-

Boonskiies,

Not Voting (2)-

Egg, Malakittens,

The deadline is at 6pm on Tuesday 14th April 2015. With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[Trojan Horse]

Trojan - earlier you mentioned that Tammy expected to be able to get a good read on jason. Has she read the game recently, and if so, what are her current thoughts?

She's following the game. She's still trying to figure Jason out.

It's weird you are still trying to work me out, and the fact you are hanging on for Tammy's opinion seems like you are stalling not wanting to say anything incase it derails the lynch, also if Tammy has experience with me, I (and this is backed up by Zach) would expect her to have something already this deep into the game or even something to say at least.

I am not hanging on for Tammy's opinion. You're my top scum pick (though less so than at the start), so I'm voting for you. I only brought it up because Fenchurch asked about it. As for Tammy not yet having a read on you: I just got a message from her, and she apologized for losing track of our games due to busyness. I'm sure she'll have a more solid read soon.

I brought up the point earlier of no viable counter wagon (at the time) It would heavily suggest 1) scum is already on it or 2) they are happy to just sit back and relax without anyone having to provide alternative options as to them, and others it would seem the lynch is a cert and nothing else has to be done.

I'm considering that. The thing is, we still have 10 days left until the deadline. If you are scum, I wouldn't be all that surprised if your teammates decided to let the wagon be for now, and wait for a townie to propose an alternative.

Lastly: Jason, Oversoul wants to know if you spent any tokens for this game.

[Thor665]

I don't think it is and it appears to reasonably align with some of my stated issues with you.

Examples other than my case against you, please.

Other than my evidence against you I do not have evidence against you - you are correct.

You can still answer the first question if you ignore my facetiousness.

So it was a handjob question.
Okay - well, in that case, it would take us back to my already stated commentary - that you think I'm lynchable because you think I'm disagreeable, and disagreeable players are able to be lynched off attitude over case.

Again I see a disconnect with "STD's a big noob" and "STD can successfully make me look bad"

I never claimed you would be able to do it.
I did claim that I think that's what you're trying to do.
There is a difference.

Do you really think that scum often successfully attack targets that attack them and bring that football down to a touchdown?

Yes.

No, I just made myself look really Smurfy cuz Delta attacked me and I reflexively voted him. Some team members are suspicious of you but no one's gone out and voted you, no one's been like "great show, STD."

I agree, you made a bad move if you're scum.
Does that make you town for some reason that I'm unaware of?

I'm having trouble understanding what makes you think you're so lynchable and why you thought someone could think that.

If you think I'm unlynchable - why are you voting me regardless of if you think I'm scum or not?
Answer: you don't think I'm unlynchable.
Thus - proving my point; you think I'm lynchable.

Now, what you're *really* trying to argue is how *easy* you think I would be to lynch, and how easy I think you think I would be easy to lynch.
But you're not arguing that.
You're trying to act like the lone hero againstthe big bad.
Hint: because it's a David and Goliath story - and you're trying to paint me as the bad guy to get me lynched off emotion and not case...which is what I'm claiming you're doing.
Any questions?

[Save The Dragons]

Where is Delta's push on me flawed?

I don't think it is and it appears to reasonably align with some of my stated issues with you.

Examples other than my case against you, please.

Other than my evidence against you I do not have evidence against you - you are correct.

...so am I correct in saying you think that Delta's push on me isn't flawed, but only that parts where he attacks me for attacking you?

[Save The Dragons]

I don't think you are impossible to lynch. I don't really know if I can do it so easily even if I'm right about you.

I'm treating lynchable as "easy to be lynched," not a 100% absolute black and white, which is where we are disconnecting now.

[Fenchurch]

I agree with a whole bunch of Thor's observations in #327, although I don't support the subsequent stuff on STDragons. To me STDragons' righteousness and indignation sounds more like town than scum.

That's untrue. I have placed exactly one vote so far. It was a pressure vote. No other votes yet because no scumreads yet. Does it normally take this long for me to get a scumread? Probably not.

You're right! I'm sorry I missed it, and I'm glad I found out about it now.

If you don't have scumreads, do you have townreads? Do you have reads?

It's weird you are still trying to work me out, and the fact you are hanging on for Tammy's opinion seems like you are stalling not wanting to say anything incase it derails the lynch, also if Tammy has experience with me, I (and this is backed up by Zach) would expect her to have something already this deep into the game or even something to say at least.

I am not hanging on for Tammy's opinion. You're my top scum pick (though less so than at the start), so I'm voting for you. I only brought it up because Fenchurch asked about it. As for Tammy not yet having a read on you: I just got a message from her, and she apologized for losing track of our games due to busyness. I'm sure she'll have a more solid read soon.

Why less so than at the start?
Does it bother you that jason seems to overblow and exaggerate everything that is posted about him?

[SleepyKrew]

If you don't have scumreads, do you have townreads? Do you have reads?

Nope! I'm feeling pretty mentally checked out. I intend to do a nice thorough reread eventuality, but I don't know if that will happen D1. Have I mentioned how much I hate day ones?

[Fenchurch]

Nope! I'm feeling pretty mentally checked out. I intend to do a nice thorough reread eventuality, but I don't know if that will happen D1. Have I mentioned how much I hate day ones?

My method is pretty much:
a) read what person is doing
b) think 'can I see myself doing this as town?'
c) think 'can I see myself doing this as scum?'
d) draw conclusions

Also, votechart. All the way votechart.

Spoiler:

Do you prefer playing as scum or town?
If you had a one-time-only dayvig shot right now, who would you shoot, if anyone?

[SleepyKrew]

oh my god I've never seen a votechart before
Usually scum.
Probably jason.

[jasonT1981]

Lastly: Jason, Oversoul wants to know if you spent any tokens for this game.

Team does not want to discuss token distribution that is all I am saying on this

[Thor665]

Where is Delta's push on me flawed?

I don't think it is and it appears to reasonably align with some of my stated issues with you.

Examples other than my case against you, please.

Other than my evidence against you I do not have evidence against you - you are correct.

...so am I correct in saying you think that Delta's push on me isn't flawed, but only that parts where he attacks me for attacking you?

There is actually nothing in what you quoted that has me saying what you're concluding that I mean.

I don't think you are impossible to lynch. I don't really know if I can do it so easily even if I'm right about you.

I'm treating lynchable as "easy to be lynched," not a 100% absolute black and white, which is where we are disconnecting now.

No, where we're disconnecting is you saying that it's unreasonable for me to suggest that you believe I am lynchable. I see nothing in your actions to suggest I should have perceived otherwise - yet you're acting like I'm crazy sauce for thinking so. Feel free to define it as easy or as difficult as I wish - but address the actual point I'm making, which is not the definition, it is the concept I have presented.

I agree with a whole bunch of Thor's observations in #327, although I don't support the subsequent stuff on STDragons. To me STDragons' righteousness and indignation sounds more like town than scum.

Eh, let's see what Jason flips and then we can debate that. Nacho agrees with you though, so, meh.

Lastly: Jason, Oversoul wants to know if you spent any tokens for this game.

Team does not want to discuss token distribution that is all I am saying on this

[jasonT1981]

Eh, let's see what Jason flips and then we can debate that. Nacho agrees with you though, so, meh.

It is very interesting you are willing to push this without consideration to anything else and are determined to force this through

[Save The Dragons]

There is actually nothing in what you quoted that has me saying what you're concluding that I mean.

Okay then.

So, Thor, about that Delta push. Why is it not flawed, ignoring for now the part where he didn't like my push on you.

No, where we're disconnecting is you saying that it's unreasonable for me to suggest that you believe I am lynchable. I see nothing in your actions to suggest I should have perceived otherwise - yet you're acting like I'm crazy sauce for thinking so. Feel free to define it as easy or as difficult as I wish - but address the actual point I'm making, which is not the definition, it is the concept I have presented.

Crazy sauce?

It's hard to address the points when you're treating it as if I'm saying that you are impossible to lynch when I am treating it as if I'm saying you are unlikely to be lynch.

I concede that my wording was unclear but I don't really have anything to say other than if you consider my wordage as I mean it your points about me saying it's impossible to lynch you don't mean anything since I'm not saying that.

[SleepyKrew]

Eh my vote's useless right now.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: jason

[Save The Dragons]

Now, what you're *really* trying to argue is how *easy* you think I would be to lynch, and how easy I think you think I would be easy to lynch.
But you're not arguing that.

Like you literally are saying that's what I'm arguing but not actually arguing it.

And I'm saying, no I am actually arguing that.

If there's something I'm missing in particular that is irrelevant to that point, please alert me.

Plain and simple I think you're scum trying to discredit me, trying to appear like some big damn hero right out of the gate. When some guy tries to contest this or present a viewpoint contrary to your own, you proceed to attack them. When confronted further, I find your answers to be suspect, I find your rebuttal to be dismissive, my spidey sense feels like you're trying to be careful with what you say while being a bit obtuse. I don't actually care how lynchable or unlynchable you are, I'm pointing out that as scum I am, from my point of view, making things difficult for me. That's my opinion. If I'm right, woo, I'll take that as confirmation I'm not so dumb after all and if I'm wrong, whoops, guess I shouldn't get so distracted when someone insults me.

I suppose at some point I should just stop trying to argue towniness and just start thinking about how you've handled this conversation.

[Thor665]

Eh, let's see what Jason flips and then we can debate that. Nacho agrees with you though, so, meh.

It is very interesting you are willing to push this without consideration to anything else and are determined to force this through

What do you think I need to be considering that I am not?

So, Thor, about that Delta push. Why is it not flawed, ignoring for now the part where he didn't like my push on you.

What do you find flawed and why?
I'm not going to go through his entire case and justify it as 'not flawed'. Justify it as flawed, or explain the flaws you see, and I'll be willing to explain why those issues don't bug me - but otherwise my answer is 'I find his case not flawed'. I don't see a flaw as part of it...so...?

Like you literally are saying that's what I'm arguing but not actually arguing it.

And I'm saying, no I am actually arguing that.

So if you agree that the only question is how easy I do or don't think you consider me to be to lynch...what is your issue?
I understand your issue if you think i think that you find me unlynchable - I don't get any issue if you think that I think you think I am lynchable...which you appear to now be agreeing to.
What's the beef if we both agree that you consider me lynchable and the only issue is "how easy" we suspect the other one thinks it would be?

Plain and simple I think you're scum trying to discredit me, trying to appear like some big damn hero right out of the gate

Okay?

When some guy tries to contest this or present a viewpoint contrary to your own, you proceed to attack them.

I agree, I hold beliefs and defend them.
So...I'm scum for that?
Or is this commentary as empty as it appears?

When confronted further, I find your answers to be suspect, I find your rebuttal to be dismissive

I agree, I am dismissive of your answers.

I don't actually care how lynchable or unlynchable you are, I'm pointing out that as scum I am, from my point of view, making things difficult for me. That's my opinion. If I'm right, woo, I'll take that as confirmation I'm not so dumb after all and if I'm wrong, whoops, guess I shouldn't get so distracted when someone insults me.

Yes, i agree that is the concept you are trying to sell to suggest you are not scum.
I am countering with the concept that I *don't* think you thought it would be this hard.
I understand that this is the question - what I don't get is how it makes me suspect for not believing that you are intentionally taking a hard path because you're town and/or wouldn't have been able to spot it as a hard path/are not likely to slip up as scum.

I suppose at some point I should just stop trying to argue towniness and just start thinking about how you've handled this conversation.

I agree with that - it would be a more townish response.