Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[hitogoroshi]

VC 35 (Minor Day 1, VC 35)

Boon:

This Minor Night, in addition to using a Minor Night action, target player may learn the Sign of any other player. This does not interact with any abilities in any way.

(5)

vezokpiraka:

Gammagooey, Espeonage, Shadoweh, ChannelDelibird, Titus [L-5]
(4)

Tammy:

GuyInFreezer, DeasVail, Untrod Tripod, Bulbazak
(4)

T S O:

T S O, vezokpiraka, Cheetory6, Marquis
(2)

Marquis:

Aronis, TellTaleHeart
(1)

Shadoweh:

ActionDan

(3)

No Boon Vote:

Empire, mastin2, Tammy

With 19 votes in play, it takes 10 to Boon. Deadline is Sunday, April 5th at 9 PM CST.

Minor Day One Deadline

(expired on 2015-04-05 21:00:00)

Just over one day until deadline.

GuyInFreezer is V/LA until April 6th.

[Titus]

@TSO, Cut the bull. Mafia isn't democratic. Teammates are advisors, but you make the call in any game. If a majority of your team told you to play anti-wincon for no purpose, you wouldn't do it. So don't try to sell me this democratic shit.

The vagueness on UT is a problem. It looks like general doubtcasting of Tammy's choices.

@All, We all agreed to use the conftown's votes for baning, why is it so fucking hard to get a bane.

I'm back early from DnD and I'm utterly annoyed by this.

@Bulba, we need to get on the same page. Stat. I feel as if we are reading two separate games sometimes.

[GuyInFreezer]

Boon: vezok

[Bulbazak]

@Bulba, we need to get on the same page. Stat. I feel as if we are reading two separate games sometimes.

And I've told you repeatedly, I don't like Vezok for a boon choice, and I won't be voting for him. You can't yell at TSO to make his own decisions and then yell at me when I do.

Unboon

Boon TSO

Tammy is still the better choice, but if we can't do that, I'd prefer TSO.

[Titus]

@Bulba, I'm not yelling at you by saying we need to get on the same page. :S

[Cheetory6]

He's not up for discussing things. In fact, his MO so far has been to shut discussion down.

Would you say the manner in which you approached engaging me earlier this cycle isn't similar to what you're scumreading Marquis for here? Why or why not?
Also, talk with me about why you like the idea of booning TSO.
Also also, talk with me about why you don't like vezok.
Also also also, would you be voting to lynch Marquis right now if it was major D1? If not, who would you be voting for?
I want to understand the mind of the Bulba and I feel like I'm getting only a vague image of where you're coming from at this point. You came at me really hard early cycle and then you just kind of dropped pressure on me and I'm somewhat wondering if you dropped it because you knew the way you'd approached it was making you look bad. I'm trying not to be self-centered though so answers to these questions would be helpful for working towards me separating OMGUSy feels and genuine read feels tia

@Titus

, I feel like you're being weirdly antagonistic towards TSO? Why is it bad for him to have an opinion as to who should be booned?

The vagueness on UT is a problem. It looks like general doubtcasting of Tammy's choices.

Why does it look like doubtcasting to you? How exactly is he being vague when he says he's been constantly scumreading him?

@UT

, I think I'm liking you better than I was before? Your posting has been coming across as a little fluffy though and it's making me less confident in being okay with moving you to being a nullread right now. Can you talk about your read on Tammy right now? I did a quick f-search through your ISO and I didn't really see much mention of her so I'm curious as to the reasoning behind that vote.

[Cheetory6]

Also, Bulba, can I get some updated thoughts on Empire from you?

[Cheetory6]

I've said this before but talking to Regfan again about it, we dislike the stance CES has apparently taken regarding bane'ing vezok due to him being hard to read from earlier today as that's not something we see town-CES believing (Regfan insists that even though vezok can be lurky, he's very transparent)

Is this something that CES should be really aware of? Like, does he have enough experience with vezok on both sides of the alignment fence such that saying this would be ridiculous coming from his POV as town?

The stance that CDB's entire team apparently thinks bane'ing me is a really bad idea in #754 vs. the later scumread on my slot in #761 still makes absolutely no sense to either me or Regfan.

I was going to argue that maybe CDB would think bane-ing your slot would be a bad idea because making a potential town powerhouse slot vulnerable this early on would be a bad call, but this totally goes against that grain:

I'd be pretty happy lynching Empire at the earliest opportunity, though that means I definitely don't want us to Bane him.

Oh wow Empire caught something great here. For people who haven't looked at this yet, in 754, CDB says this:

Also, the Black Goo are agreed that Baning Empire is a bad idea and that you should all stop

. I like all of the other currently voted-for options better.

Empire responds with this:

Uh, have you spoken to your team about me (

#754 implies that you have

)? Because I find it very hard to believe that a guy who (probably still) believes I have no scum game suspects me in this game.

And then CDB says this:

I hadn't brought up your slot at all to my team-mates prior to that post.

CES told me to address you on that point, so I did. He actually hasn't had much of a stance on your alignment yet, but he's less leery of your swap with Zar than I am. (Like Fenchurch, he's not had a comprehensive read of the game.)

@CDB

, you should address this because this looks reallllllllllly nasty to me.

[Cheetory6]

Actually more I think about it/look at it, less it looks like an inconsistency.
:c
I still feel like you should address any potential discrepancy there though.

[Cheetory6]

I might still be mad/OMGUSy at CDB slot and seeing something null as scummy because of that really dumb "YOU USED THE WORD VOTE DURING A MINOR DAY, TOWN WOULDN'T DO THAT"-comment -.-

[Titus]

@Cheetory, It's not bad for him to have an opinion. It's bad for him to antagonize everyone who doesn't want him boned. That's my problem.

Also, I realized an error in my post when you quoted it. TSO is doubtcasting UT because he doesn't articulate why. It's a pretty common scum tactic, although sometimes used by town as well. Basically, repeat someone is scum over and over with no reasoning until that person is lynched. Such a tactic never works with me because I'm an oddly elaborative player. For those who read emotion, they are more vulnerable to such a tactic. That's why I hate it. The consistency is part of the tactic itself. Doubtcasting is reasonless pushing of a target as scum, the longer the worse the effect is.

I hinted at that with Tammy earlier I believe.

[Cheetory6]

It's bad for him to antagonize everyone who doesn't want him boned

To be fair, if someone tried to prevent me from having sex all the time, I'd be mad too.

[Aronis]

boon: vezok

[Cheetory6]

Are you sure you're not getting on TSO for a general thing that he does vs something that he'd be more likely to do as scum wrt the whole doubtcasting thing?

[Cheetory6]

Hi Aronis!
Tell me about your thoughts and feelings on CDB and Bulba tia.

[Cheetory6]

Also, what happened to 100% town marquis vote?
Any reason you're switching?

[Titus]

@Tammy, Now I know why you can never read me. Indirect assaults are MUCH better for scum. Subtly dropping emotion is bad or other associations make it much easier to believe something untrue. So he gets other people to defend Zar based on the subconscious hearing of bad emotional play while he can be bussing Zar fir cred.

It's a bit of a stretch in this instance but it's pretty much the only way I see Bulba scum atm.

The whole repitition makes it seem true is why I aggressively defend townreads. I want to say my townreads are town so people see they are town.

Pedit: Epic Wall arrived.

This is the short version. Repeat something, people believe it.

So I pressure blank statements.

[Untrod Tripod]

inculcation, I think it's called

[Cheetory6]

Do you think your constant push against the majority of TSO's actions this cycle could be interpreted as being a variant of the same thing you're saying he's scummy for?
If you're constantly calling everything he's doing scummy, are you not discrediting him in a way?

@GiF

, can I get your updated thoughts on Gamma please?

[Cheetory6]

@UT

:

Can you talk about your read on Tammy right now? I did a quick f-search through your ISO and I didn't really see much mention of her so I'm curious as to the reasoning behind that vote.

[Titus]

Are you sure you're not getting on TSO for a general thing that he does vs something that he'd be more likely to do as scum wrt the whole doubtcasting thing?

I'm not sure. Hence why I'm doubting a TSO townread but not certain of that.

[Titus]

Also, what happened to 100% town marquis vote?
Any reason you're switching?

Yes. Marquis isn't on FFery's list. We agreed to use Ffery's list. Vezok is the only one with a wagon, I have no major problems with Vezok and deadline is approaching.

[Untrod Tripod]

@UT

:

Can you talk about your read on Tammy right now? I did a quick f-search through your ISO and I didn't really see much mention of her so I'm curious as to the reasoning behind that vote.

I can read, thanks

of TSO, vezok, and Tammy, I trust Tammy the most with the powah

[Cheetory6]

Sorry, was unclear. Was asking Aronis in that post about Marquis!
Appreciate the answer though.

I can read, thanks

of TSO, vezok, and Tammy, I trust Tammy the most with the powah

I'm just being persistent. Not doubting your ability to read.
Are you intentionally avoiding discussing the content of your read on Tammy here? Because I could also interpret this as you saying "I trust Tammy's decision making the most of all three" vs "I am townreading Tammy the most here".

[Untrod Tripod]

"I trust Tammy's decision making the most of all three"

is what I was getting at

I don't really have an alignment read on Tammy at this time