We Didn't Playtest This | Game over, everyone loses

[LucianRoy]

Also, so much hypocrisy in Lucian complaining about people writing books

I'm learning to restrain myself. It's helpful for getting the point across.

[God of Power Outlets]

@4013, I don't believe you Death because you aren't allowed to quote the mod.

This statement is so incredibly dumb that I can't believe you actually typed it.

Do I need to explain why?

It fills me with actual, not-for-show anger that you actually would even suggest this, and yet people consider you a top-tier player.

I have lost quite a bit of respect for you if you're town.

Jesus fucking Christ.

-kuribo

[Titus]

@Death,

I didn't mean for you to claim. I meant pursuing BC as possible scum. I don't find a vote or anything at all in the event of your death that could be interpreted as I checked BC and got a really fucked up result. Maybe I'm terrible with crumbs, but as a cop, you're supposed to try to do those things. That's why I have an issue with your claim.

[Titus]

@4013, I don't believe you Death because you aren't allowed to quote the mod.

This statement is so incredibly dumb that I can't believe you actually typed it.

Do I need to explain why?

It fills me with actual, not-for-show anger that you actually would even suggest this, and yet people consider you a top-tier player.

I have lost quite a bit of respect for you if you're town.

Jesus fucking Christ.

-kuribo

I'm surprised if anyone considers my early game top tier. It's my late game where I clear people where I'm most deadly. Also, my scum game is pretty good. However, almost no one likes my early play but I'm taking great strides to improve it.

Also, what the fuck is up with the constant insults coming my way after I revealed my gambit and the fight with Drixx? Your mason status feeling threatened by little old gambiting Titus?

[Narninian]

with Narninian's kill redirect logic

Don't worry about me doing that again
I probably wouldn't have made the same choice again, but I don't think the result OR the intention was bad.

[Toon Fighter]

mod and all, VLA till Tuesday

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

Explained by himself. If you townread BC, believe him and that he claims a very pro-town role that hinders town investigations.
I, on the other hand, need evidence to suggest cop proof town is as common as the other base roles which are BPs, trackers, cops, roleblockers, masons, vig/vengeful, commuter, whatever else I missed. Although modified, these base roles are extremely common that even I have exposure to almost all of them so far (first time playing in a game with masons, and pre-set neighbourhood although I've played in a game with neighbourizer before).
I can't even google it to see how common it is because I don't know what it's called.

So, still going with bullshit, and not even able to think it over properly, are you?

We're a

Reflexive Jailkeeper

. If we're targeted, we jailkeep the person who targeted us. So yeah, not this "investigative proof" bullshit. Bet you were trying to get an easy lynch on us.

Vote: Deathfisaro

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

Oh, yeah, this is Ivy, btw.

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

@Death, I am not inclined to believe you. I was and still am townreading Bulba. I want you to answer Cerebus's question before I explain why.

So, 'bout this, Titus.

[Titus]

#4207

[Titus]

And #4021

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

More referring to the townread part, but okay.

[Titus]

I am not exactly thrilled with how many people are kill immune. Bulba, Drixx, Action Dan (by the way where is he).

[Titus]

More referring to the townread part, but okay.

There's not a reason to scumread you being paranoia IMO. Open, transparent, aggressive, acts based in reason. Short version.

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

Sure.

Also, Dan's being replaced, I think. No, wait, taht's Om and Ozgin. Dan's just been prodded.

Can we get votes on Death, plz?

[God of Power Outlets]

Also, what the fuck is up with the constant insults coming my way after I revealed my gambit and the fight with Drixx? Your mason status feeling threatened by little old gambiting Titus?

Not even a little. It's the fact that you're consistently pushing terrible arguments while acting smug as fuck. "If you had quoted the mod, you'd have been modkilled." First off, that wouldn't be considered a direct quote by any stretch. Second, it's extremely well-known among all mods that FAKING communication from the mod is also mod-killable in order to prevent exactly this type of argument. You're seriously questioning that based on what? A period? The phrasing? Come the fuck on. And this isn't the first instance of you using shitty logic to try and "Just askin' questions" or whatever the fuck you're doing. Your piddly little sniping at everyone and everything is pointless.

So when I see you saying things like that, I have no choice but to question either your play or your alignment.




Counter-claim looks good and I'm more than happy to rope this scumfuck, though.

Unvote
Vote: Deathfisaro

-kuribo

[Drixx]

That's a very convincing counterclaim. I don't see the BC hydra faking for a 1-for-1 at this point.

VOTE: Deathfisaro

My initial thought is that this increases the likelihood that Boonskiies' claim was honest, although it was an odd claim since we've had mafia flip and so he had no real reason to claim without results? I'm still confused by how out of his usual meta Boonskiies is playing.

Also, Cerb has now passed beyond the point where I'm willing to write off his inactivity. Please consider me to have de-vouched for him and I'm close to an FoS, depending on when he pops in and whether he gives us anything of any substance at all.

[Cerberus v666]

That's a very convincing counterclaim. I don't see the BC hydra faking for a 1-for-1 at this point.

VOTE: Deathfisaro

My initial thought is that this increases the likelihood that Boonskiies' claim was honest, although it was an odd claim since we've had mafia flip and so he had no real reason to claim without results? I'm still confused by how out of his usual meta Boonskiies is playing.

Also, Cerb has now passed beyond the point where I'm willing to write off his inactivity. Please consider me to have de-vouched for him and I'm close to an FoS, depending on when he pops in and whether he gives us anything of any substance at all.

Inactivity? There's been nothing to react to except these recent claims, and I did react to deathfisaro's...and he answered a question I had, without really answering it. He actually completely ignored the real substance of the question, which was to determine whether he had actually received the exact results he said he did, or if he had made that assumption, because the result was something like "no effect."

[Drixx]

That's a very convincing counterclaim. I don't see the BC hydra faking for a 1-for-1 at this point.

VOTE: Deathfisaro

My initial thought is that this increases the likelihood that Boonskiies' claim was honest, although it was an odd claim since we've had mafia flip and so he had no real reason to claim without results? I'm still confused by how out of his usual meta Boonskiies is playing.

Also, Cerb has now passed beyond the point where I'm willing to write off his inactivity. Please consider me to have de-vouched for him and I'm close to an FoS, depending on when he pops in and whether he gives us anything of any substance at all.

Inactivity? There's been nothing to react to except these recent claims, and I did react to deathfisaro's...and he answered a question I had, without really answering it. He actually completely ignored the real substance of the question, which was to determine whether he had actually received the exact results he said he did, or if he had made that assumption, because the result was something like "no effect."

You know I love you like a brother my friend, and you also know you could be running this game if you wanted to. You're the smartest person I know.

[deathfisaro]

Lol I must be scum for targeting an unconventional JK. Perfect argument, I can't win against that, let's get the wagon going everyone, whoever's not voting is scum.
VOTE: deathfisaro

I miss copper, who has the brain to reason. Drixx used to be such too, but not in this game. I wonder why *hint hint*

[Drixx]

That's a really bad play deathfisaro. Town should never self vote as it screws up any analysis of the wagon afterward.

Also, you got counterclaimed and the situation is an either/or. Either you are lying or the BC hydra is lying. If you were town, you should be thrilled to trade 1-for-1 to get scum yeah?

[Cerberus v666]

Town - ChriVi (Chrimi & Viomi)-Neighbor with Cerberus, who claims ChriVi is confirmed town
Town - Three Pronged Trouser God (Untrod Tripod & kuribo & T-Bone) - Mason with Toon Fighter
Town - Toon Fighter-mason with TPTG
Town - Narninian - Kill redirector, claims to have targeted BBMolla>Marquis N1. Admitting said play feels more town than scum. Scum are unlikely to call attention to a bad play like that
Town - deathfisaro-???? Has people feeling like he's scum from D1 play, iirc D2 felt town to me, read back on D1 cases. Claimed "Town Skeptical Paranormal Investigator" D1 target Bulbasaur, received "Investigation immune", D2 target vonflare, received "not a werewolf"
Town - Cerberus v666-Neighbor with ChriVI
Town - BRantz - 3 shot removal from town, has used twice. More likely town than scum.
Town - Drixx-Faction Specific BP. Silver Lining. Werewolves??? Leaning town, scumdrixx wouldn't have made his play on Titus D2, scumdrixx would have just left titus alone and shot them eventually, knowing nobody would waste their time protecting, or waited until D4 when the double votes popped up again and let someone else notice in the smaller pool of players.
Neutral - Ozgin - COP+BP for night if target is scum+dies that day. Fairly likely town. Forgot to submit an investigation N2, dropped him from town to neutral.
Neutral - PeregrineV-lurking
Neutral - vonflare-lurkingish <<< people think he's scum. Remind self why.
Neutral - LucianRoy -Vig/Venge - Shot and hit scum after cop guilty from ozgin. Doesn't prove alignment, only townie play possible to scum.
Neutral - Om of the Nom-???? <<< That. Pushed case on Drixx using completely meaningless points. Confirmation bias or scum? Getting replaced.
Neutral - Reubus Swagrid/Titus - Treestump with vote revival, lied about the role, really bureaucrat, odd days no vote, even days double vote.
Neutral -BBmolla - Second Most Votes Miller Night Skipper
Neutral - Oranje Crush (BROseidon & wgeurts) - Amnesiac commuter, claim seems like BS, but not unreasonable. Brought up a reasonable case vs Lihin, who turned out to be town. Only up here because I don't like the push against him. Scummy play, but I'm thinking it's more "bad" than actually scummy.
Scum - ActionDan-Faction Specific BP, WTF has he even done D2? ISO reminder. Mechanical call, by virtue of multiple bulletproof presence and the feeling that Drixx's play has been townier. SK? If the orbit kill was his kill, the flavor fits. Could be a stretch.
Scum - Bulbasaur Commonwealth (Bulbazak & mastin2 & Voidedmafia) - neutral, moved to scum after claim. Lots of WoQ type posts, but IIRC, not much PRESSURE on people, in spite of taking the time to isolate things which interest them and reference back to said things. Feels like specious participation, without active hunting. Claimed "Reflexive Jailkeeper" Jailkeeps anyone who targets them.
Scum - Boonskiies-lurky nonsense spewer? Unpressured, claimed town skeptical cop, at a point when his skeptic was guaranteed to never come into play. Did not investigate N1, investigated copper N2. Leaning scum.

Dead people:
26. copper223 - Facebooker. Scum? ISO in context. valid points or opportunism? Flipped town. Reread(ugh)
2. pirate ika (pirate mollie & ika) - Davy Jones's Locker - roleblocker, targeted OC N1, no effect - Shot D2 with a shot claimed by LucianRoyBerlin Undercity Mafia Modified Roleblocker, Shot through the heart flavor.
24. Dani/Lihin- Can make a player hated for a day(hidden modifier), and cuts prod/replace time limits in half for that day. Role is scummy, but could be town. Usage was super scummy, didn't use the power D1(which is a town move, unless 1)limited shots, or 2)plans to use the confirmable claim to gain empty town cred), but when confirmed, targeted an active thoughtful player who they did not state a scum read on(Bulbasaur). Seems more concerned with survival and confirming their power than doing the townie play of forcing lurkers to post more. Flipped town
19. Soren Magua-???? Voting for me...because...I don't remember. I think it was silly and I responded to it. Could be wrong.Killed end of D2, "nukes from orbit," flipped town forgetful watcher.
20. VysePresident-Feels townish. Could be bias due to agreeing with my thought that copper is scum. Flipped Berlin Undercity Mafia(????)
17. Never-melt-ice Marquis- Neighbor Day Cop, dead N1, did not flip as claimed, but was town. Flipped "New Kid on the Block", incinerated and eviscerated flavor N1.
10. Jackel98- Town Tracker - Dead, lynched D1, flipped town PUBLIC tracker

The top list is in rough order of likelihood to be said alignment.

An interesting thing that I"m entirely too lazy at this moment after compiling and formatting this(poorly, but still getting it done) to actually check out, is the mentione of Pika as a double voter immediately after the flip. They just flipped as modified roleblocker, NOT as a double voter. Curious to see who brought that up.

Reflexive Jailkeep is probably bulbasaurs real role, but definitely feels like a scum role. Nice balance to ActionDan's BP as well possibly. Lot of setup spec there though.

4 cops(assuming Marquis actually had cop powers)
1 watcher
1 super tracker
1 public tracker
3 kill immune
1 limited kill immune.
1 scum roleblocker.
2 masons
1 one sided mason

Can you mix and match those powers into a balanced game? If you can, the odd things out might speak strongly as to who our scum can be. I recommend doing it in your free time though, and not taking up the thread talking about it until some fully fleshed theories exist.

Vote: Boonskies

BC's claim isn't a counter claim. It's admitting a reason why his power didn't work, and was also a fairly terrible play in a no pressure environment(again) of someone with a role that makes them immune to a kill just outing themselves, and thus creating more WiFoM for us when they don't die. It was terrible, and not a town play.

[Cerberus v666]

Ugh. Bolding

Vote: Boonskies

[deathfisaro]

That's a really bad play deathfisaro. Town should never self vote as it screws up any analysis of the wagon afterward.

Also, you got counterclaimed and the situation is an either/or. Either you are lying or the BC hydra is lying. If you were town, you should be thrilled to trade 1-for-1 to get scum yeah?

1) It's not a counterclaim, BC's claim has nothing to do with my role, my night action targets history, and the results.
It just explains by my night action target why I saw him as investigation proof and he IS investigation proof, so what's wrong regarding the claims? BC's argument that I was trying an easy lynch on him is a far better argument and I indeed was trying to get an easy lynch on him because I genuinely believe he's scum.

2) I would be lying if I said I have a guilty on BC, but I came out saying he was cop proof. If I had a guilty I would have nobrainer claimed D2 easy.
If BC was lying, I would have gotten a result positive or negative. So why are you saying either of us has to be lying?

3) As for the last sentence, yeah that's why I'll pursue him even with my own death. Don't tell me self-voting will ruin your VCA when it requires 9 other people to achieve the lynch. 9 too few for you?
Self-voting is no different from Titus' role existing in this game. Titus will throw the VCA off by one every day, one day by guaranteed not being on any wagon (or having no effect), and another day preventing one person to be on a wagon if it's the lynch wagon because the vote counts for two.
Do you have a serious problem with mods decision to put odd/even votecount flipper in the game?


Also, since no town has suffered any negative effect from non-town powers I see no reason for town to have a reflexive JK. I mean, what you gonna roleblock? Reflex roleblock Pika's roleblock? Given the number of investigatives, it's far pro-scum and at best anti-town. And it also doubles as permanent everything BP which is AD and Drixx's roles combined into one and plus more. Does town need all of mafia BP + SK BP + OP BP? Surely the last one is too OP to justify other roles.

[deathfisaro]

It just boggled my mind I had to come back.
BPs are shot limited, probably 1 shot. So when it comes to worst, scums just have to shoot them twice over two nights, or let them live but kill everyone else for the win.
With 1 scum from each faction gone, you need 2 or fewer town alive for scum endgame. How are they going to kill 2 NK resistant and 1 NK proof and win? If all three are town, this game was broken from the design and we all wasted our time by actually playing it.

Also, looking at cerb's last post not everyone's made up their mind as to which kill flavour belong to which faction (as in scum or SK). I think my role suggests a clear setup, and I don't know why Drixx hasn't made up his mind yet because he supposedly has the same amount of info to work with. Heart not in the game?