We Didn't Playtest This | Game over, everyone loses

[Boonskiies]

Why would he make up a faction cop on werewolves? Makes no sense from a scum perspective. Mine will be confirm-able. Also, unless he's a Role Cop and Role Cop'd me in an attempt to eventually mislynch me, I find it highly unlikely he is scum, due to us basically having the same role, but for different factions. The fact that he's not even pushing for my lynch pretty much confirms him as Town for me.

[LucianRoy]

Did you mention that earlier? @Molla

He did, at the beginning of the game.

Then that was long before Drixx's claim...
Drixx, your bullet proof is immune to a certain faction? Yes.
Is it immune to town shots as well?

[God of Power Outlets]

Why are those claims unbelievable then? Setup-wise, it seems to make sense.

Setup wise, it's plausible.

You forgot and then checked the dead guy. That's not to me.

Death, we got no confirmed werewolf faction, and his ISO does not support a bulba check.

Despite Titus being mostly nonsensical, this really should put away all doubt as to Death's alignment.

[Titus]

@Cerebus, I would strongly recommend investigating BBMolla with your claim.

Now that he's revised to be Volcano specifc, we know that he has to be in the same game with Vyse. We know then which faction the Masons are supposed to balance against.

[House]

@Cerebus, I would strongly recommend investigating BBMolla with your claim.

Now that he's revised to be Volcano specifc, we know that he has to be in the same game with Vyse. We know then which faction the Masons are supposed to balance against.

He didn't revise, it was in his full claim.

[House]

Oh fuck, forgot to bookmark this

Alright elaboration

I'm a Town Miller One-Shot Conditional Nightskipper

If I have second most votes at the end of the day, the next night will be skipped. I was thinking it might be good to use day 1 to give us a double day, but now I'm thinking it may be better after an investigative role claims in a future day.

ALSO, it specifies that I will appear as a member of the Tropical Volcano Lair Mafia upon investigation.

[Titus]

For fucks sake, this game makes me wish I was dead already but then Drixx would never be lynched.

[Titus]

Why are those claims unbelievable then? Setup-wise, it seems to make sense.

Setup wise, it's plausible.

You forgot and then checked the dead guy. That's not to me.

Death, we got no confirmed werewolf faction, and his ISO does not support a bulba check.

Despite Titus being mostly nonsensical, this really should put away all doubt as to Death's alignment.

Well, symbolic sending of my vote here if you agree. We'll work together on this for now. I'll shut up about Drixx and you investigate BBMolla. Narnian redirects away from you and onto Drixx. House doesn't specify who he's investigating so he won't be a threat.

Investigating BBMolla lets us know which mafia faction is which game.

[Cerberus v666]

Why are those claims unbelievable then? Setup-wise, it seems to make sense.

Setup wise, it's plausible.

You forgot and then checked the dead guy. That's not to me.

Death, we got no confirmed werewolf faction, and his ISO does not support a bulba check.

Despite Titus being mostly nonsensical, this really should put away all doubt as to Death's alignment.

Well, symbolic sending of my vote here if you agree. We'll work together on this for now. I'll shut up about Drixx and you investigate BBMolla. Narnian redirects away from you and onto Drixx. House doesn't specify who he's investigating so he won't be a threat.

Investigating BBMolla lets us know which mafia faction is which game.

Drixx or ActionDan, actually. WiFoM.

[Titus]

Fair enough. Drixx or ActionDan.

[Titus]

@House, we aren't getting Drixx until I can double vote.

Vote Death with me.

VOTE: Death

[God of Power Outlets]

I don't investigate anyone? Or do you mean in-thread?

[Titus]

Derp meant that for Cerebrus. God my fucking brain is rebelling. I need to get away from Drixx. He got it though.

Let's lynch Death today.

[LucianRoy]

Actually, a death lynch would help with my read on The Bulbasaur Commonwealth, as well as OC.
I like it.

VOTE: Deathfisaro

[Cerberus v666]

Why is death more likely scum than boon?

[LucianRoy]

House, we've got to form the hat buddy block.

[God of Power Outlets]

Because death has been consistently scummy since Day 1 and we can only lynch one at a time.

[Titus]

Right and while Boon is improbable (no investigation and the dead guy), Death getting an investigation immune and not even hinting at it is ridiculous.

[God of Power Outlets]

Honestly they can both be scum, which might solve some issues for you set-up specers that we can stop worrying about so much.

[Cerberus v666]

I like Boon scum A LOT more than death scum. skeptic cop has no reason to claim since scum have already flipped. Death, on the other hand, had a good reason to claim, because no werewolves had been found for him, and he becomes a VT if one doesn't show up tonight or we do a night skip(as we should)

[Titus]

[Redacted]

My D1 target

was

Bulbasaur Commonwealth

and he was

investigation proof

.
Why in the world would town be cop proof? Either it's BC's power or their teammate has a power where s/he can choose a person to be investigation proof every night or something.
The only scenario where I might possibly reconsider BC is that Pika roleblocked me and lied about roleblocking Oranje as a means of distancing, so Oranje's Berlin Undercity Mafia flip could influence this.
In any other cases, I'm hard committed to BC (funny how I'm SK cop and I'm pursuing scum in exhcange for losing my power),
[REdacted]

Spoiler: Death's Day 2 ISO

@mod:

Do you only announce role name as a part of game specific feature or is it possible to get the role descriptions too?

My neighbor hasn't claimed

on purpose

because unlike you

morons

we realize that having scum know who all the neighbors are is a shitty idea.

Both scum factions shot neighbourhood cop. Is it wrong for me to think the neighbourhood contains 1 of each? Or do you think it's more likely that both scum factions mindgamed hardcore and shot Marquis on purpose to lead us (at least me) to believe that the neighbourhood contains at least one?

1. Scum can't coordinate the kills and are probably against each other, based on what Drixx said I assume with have werewolves and a second faction, I assume mafia goven the usual factions, werewolves probably eviscerate.

The incinerated would be "Volcano mafia" from Molla's miller part then? I mean, volcano and incinerated, werewolf and eviscerated makes sense to me.

@All, anyone realize Marquis did not flip cop though?

When I saw the role name, he's a new kid on the block so he gets to know people on the block, so with a little stretch I took it as neighbourhood cop. He was town, what would he have gained by fakeclaiming and sticking to it when it would be verified D2?
I wonder if revealing role powers breaks the game and that's why it's not announced?

@Bulbasaur: Jackel DID claim plain vanilla tracker. 1553 1569 1599. He did hint Public Tracker in 1689 but never actually admitted it.
So with all the evidence in your face, are you still saying as town investigator being in a highly likely lynch situation not honestly full claiming and eating the lynch was a pro-town good play?

@Narninian: I can see why you drove the shot to Marquis, but because Marquis got shot twice you kinda jumped to the conclusion that one faction shot Marquis and the other shot Molla. But both factions could have shot Marquis, because redirector doesn't necessarily get "failed" even if you flop?

@Chrivi & Cerberus: So entertaining the possibility of both factions targeting Marquis for the fear of each faction's member in the neighbourhood getting investigated, why does outing your neighbours hurt town? Don't you have a separate thread, because you knew Cerberus had 1-way mod conftown info on you before that talk surfaced on this thread. I'm inclined to believe there's scum in the hood and that's why Marquis had to die (although I'm not saying Marquis investigating Cerberus and you two basically becoming confmasons is BS). Finding scum in the small pool of the hood I guess would be easier?

@Titus: You say there's likely no SK and yet you still say "if multiball" when Marquis death had 2 flavours. As for whether my PR can be found on the wiki, half and half.

@Drixx: So are you strictly inferior to AD in terms of PR power? Actually I'll change the question. Why is AD's PR so OP? Cop's limited to neighbourhood, BP's limited to 1 faction, and yet AD is enjoying global protection.
Or you could be SK-immune scum. But what merits the SK to shoot Marquis?

@Ozgin:

Well, I'm glad I survived.

I've said this as scum but never as town, reasons I think is quite obvious.

VOTE: Ozgin

Well, I'm glad I survived.

VOTE: Pirate Ika

Will reason soon.

OK I think I perhaps combined your reply and someone's comment, I was replying to the last 3 pages or so. My apologies.

If AD's not OP but regular powered, then why is Drixx's underpowered? Now that Drixx said he's werewolf specific, he's either underpowered town BP or crosskill-immune Volcano?

Oh sorry about that quote this board is silly. Above is @Bulbasaur

@AD: I remember you saying there must be 2 mafia factions from your role PM (and werewolf must be a separate faction). More accurate wording please? Does it say like "both mafia factions" or "2 mafia factions" or the like? Or is it more like "all mafia factions"

Titus, are you saying like ~2 people obvcounterwagoned to save their buddy and it rolled that fast?

Bulbasaur, if I may ask, what play of mine was stupid? Or at least, stupid in a way that it should be mentioned in the same breath as

narninian choosing to redirect a kill to a cop rather than to a treestump/BP

in an attempt to prevent the kill completely.

OK I'm actually sold on this.
There is no certainty that a protective role exists in this game (because a 13p vanilaless I played had none). And BPs weren't playing to draw in NKs. Now that AD and Drixx claimed BP, there's little merit for scums to risk shooting them. So if Narninian redirected kill from Marquis to Drixx (who claimed werewolf-BP or eviscerateproof) for example, then we have the information volcano wanted Marquis dead which leads to a very high chance of volcano existing in the neighbourhood.
Redirect could have killed the cop if neither scum actually targeted him (you know, if you expected Marquis to be protected, wouldn't scums too?)

If there's a town bus driver now might be a good time to at least crumb it.

If there's a town bus driver now might be a good time to at least crumb it.

omg if you are town I have words to say in post game

So you think town bus driver should stay silent, let you get lynched, and Ozgin get all the suspicion? If you have something to say, just say it now. If you can't, that's kinda scumclaim to be honest.

@Ozgin: if I redirected PI and someone and you claimed guilty on PI, I'd have hard claimed with who the owner of Berlin Undercity Mafia role is. Town Bus Driver takes skill to be pro-town, I don't think I have such skill, I'd trade 1 to 1 with scum if I were one.

If there's a town bus driver now might be a good time to at least crumb it.

omg if you are town I have words to say in post game

Hmm actually.
How does Berlin Undercity Mafia incinerate? Surely doesn't eviscerate as we linked that to Drixx's werewolf faction in his role PM. If werewolf is SK instead of mafia2, I don't understand Marquis' double shot death, so I was leaning heavily on "Volcano Mafia" and "Werewolf" as 2 scum factions.
Something somewhere is not right.
UNVOTE:

Argh those lingering quotes!!! Ignore those.

Why the fuck are we assuming bus driver over shit like framer btw

I do consider framer because that mafia doesn't seem to be flavour related to incinerating or eviscerating.
The difference is, I expect town bus driver would claim if he successfully redirected, whereas I really don't see framer claiming.

It's the lack of flavour in the result that is slightly annoying.

I'll wait one day for a shenanigan claim since about 10 people haven't posted anything in regards to the guilty result.

Oranje: if Lihin flips scum, you would very likely be seen as not the same faction as Lihin as you are initiating a hard push but how were you proven not in the same faction as Pika? If anyone, it was Ozgin.

As for Lihin and PV, I don't know why they are still in the game. Let's draw them out.
VOTE: Lihin

@Lihin
Claiming without a role name when the mod only gives out the role name with a flip.
Also Your power can be confirmed but the power is so neutral confirming power doesn't confirm alignment.
You'll need to convince everyone why as town you played like how you played so far.
And how did disappearing and showing up at a nice opportune moment to claim a very neutral power and proving it to hopefully destroy your wagon lead to town victory?

Oh Double Day Foreman is a title? I missed it being all in lower caps. Anyway, my other points unaffected.

@fisaro
Did you read what he said about confusing the silver reference with mining? I buy it.

That explains having 15 posts in a 3000 post game with a fluffy power role?
Flying so under the radar he must have gone underground by now.

Also do you think scums have obvscum powers that are also easily confirmable? Of course easily confirmable powers given to scum will be fluffy. I wouldn't say every fluffy power is scum's but my main question is the first one.

@Copper
Fair point.
1) Replacement happened 2000 posts ago.
2) Jackel? PV? It wouldn't be tunnelling if I'm pursuing multiple targets simulatenously since I can vote only one at a time and leaving the others unpressured is kinda meaningless in terms of pressuring with votes to draw them out of hiding?
3) Don't recall anyone at L-1 who he could have silent hammered by giving hate status.
4) Besides buying his "silver" thing, source of townreads?

@Lihin

oh man the ability to force players to post more and possibly give them a conditional hated modifier, what an incredibly reasonable scum role

So you think forcing lurking players to post more is pro-town (or anti-scum).
Then why didn't you use it on PereV D1 to either force him to post more which helps town, or get him replaced fast which leads to the replacement posting more than PV ever has which would help town?

Now the easy answer is "oh it's only 1 shot". As town, your best use for that 1 shot was to use it on a random Commonwealth who is likely going to pick up the prod (as stated by yourself), to confirm your power to hopefully dismantle your wagon?
Would other people who receive this role PM think "oh I'm going to use this to save myself because town wincon is simply out-surviving scum and I'll be super useful as VT in a vanillaless game"? Quite the opposite.

And if you actually say it's 1 shot, I'll find you extremely scummy because

i am a town double day foreman. i can select a player and cut their prod/replace deadlines in half (reduced from 72/24 to 36/12) for the rest of the day phase effective immediately. if they get prodded any time during a day i select them, they gain hated modifier for said day. confirmation is coming in the form of the commonwealth being prodded.

This is like the most detailed role claim ever and ZERO mention of how many shots, meaning not shot limited. If it was shot limited, I'm pretty sure someone who is nice enough to do a simple math like 72 / 2 and 24 / 2 for us would have written 2 self explanatory words "one shot" in a claim that covers the entirety of the role.

With 1 shot case covered, moving on to unlimited shot (every day phase or something) case (which I find far more likely given the effectiveness of the power and missing shot limit in the claim)
What incredibly reasonable town benefit did you find in not using that power on PV D1? On anyone, really. As town, your mindset is "meh, I'll just not use my power today, other people will probably carry me while I disappear and do my own things"?


I'm very unhappy with Lihin's reaction to his wagon, as much as Jackel's.

Actually drawing attention to the vote count was a poor move because it was not too hard to guess who had the double vote once you realize that there's a double voter.
If someone noticed before you, and no discussion came out of it, probably have been good to just let it slide.
If that person made a scene about the vote numbers not matching, it'd be his problem. But you made it your own.

@Lihin still waiting for your answer to deathfisaro.

I actually wish his power was global, including self. Then he wouldn't be able to lurk so much. If his next post is a mere prod dodge we should lynch him for implicit scumclaim and tomorrow wagon people who didn't join the wagon

Lihin (8) -

Cerberus v666

,

Om of the Nom

, Boonskiies,

deathfisaro

,

Oranje Crush

,

Bulbasaur Commonwealth

, Narninian,

Drixx

Jackel98 (13) - Bulbasaur Commonwealth, BBmolla, Ozgin, Magua, Lihin, copper223, Om of the Nom, Drixx, Marquis, LucianRoy, Oranje Crush, VysePresident, Cerberus v666

This is why the Lihin wagon makes me a bit unconfortable.

Because I lynched Jackel? Hmm... I thought I voted for PV and my basis for going after Lihin was not using his power on PV D1?

With 1 scum dead, how does 5 people overlap on a wagon make you uncomfortable?
If anything people who lurk and allowing the game to play itself make me far more uncomfortable because that's exactly what I did last game as scum, intentional or not.

Drixx's personality splitting is a little bit concerning. Do you need... counselling?

"There is scum on this wagon" is not a good enough reason to not lynch someone in multiball. There's scum on the wagon even on a scum lynch, and until we can link a kill flacour with Berlin Undercity there is likely people from 2+ non-town faction players on any wagon regardless of the wagonee's faction. Depending on why we're wagoning, heck even 3 non-town factions could make up a scum lynch wagon.

If you think Lihin's wagon consists of both scum factions, then it's a completely different ball game and I'm all ears.

Also "but he's not around to answer" being a reason behind a wagon dismantle basically encourages lurking in a game that already is suffering from having too much.
Of course we can't force replaceouts and such, but when players themselves declare the willingness to replace out if they fall too far behind and still stick around when they're significantly far behind leads me to hardcore guess that they drew a sick scum power and would love to use it for maximum bang despite not really playing the other parts of the games.

I still don't get why we're lynching an inactive.
It's just bad play to do so.

I think Lihin's still alive because he's inactive.
Nobody's found any slightest townread from him and the resistance to the wagon is actually Lihin lurking too hardcore to be around to interact at all.

Shot through the heart (Lucian)
Incinerated
Eviscerated
Nuked from orbit

I'm not quite certain the last is a faction kill flavour or an ability flavour of a delayed kill (there's really nothing significantly delaying about an orbital strike?) but it makes sense for scum to utilize delayed kill in N1 as it reveals 1 fewer flip for D2.
But then if people are underground and stay underground, nuking the surface is both convenient and safe...?

I don't know what's up with people's impatience. If you two didn't claim masons I would go after you hardcore for silencing and minimizing involvement of Lihin in this game post-wagon.
Even Lihin admitted getting people to post more is pro-town, and I added if someone's lurking, getting that slot replaced has the same result. And for some reason the game's driven to prevent such, when it would have seemed unlikely that Lihin would have convinced 14 people to change their minds anyway?

how the fuck do you silence someone with a hammer in a game that has extended twilight?

While you're so certain Lihin's going to show up in twilight to give us all the details we ever needed,

this is happening:

Anyways, lihin! Show up again and tell us what you think!

What was the risk involved in waiting for Lihin to come back and telling us what he thinks FIRST and THEN hammering?

If he does, then fine. I'll admit that apparently expecting a 4 day MIA to post exactly in twilight doesn't have a nil chance.

Like really? How long did you want to wait?

Next time let's another day. No. Two days! Fuck it, let's just go to deadline and never lynch anyone.

Man the fuck up and lynch your scum reads instead of bitching about it when other people do.

-kuribo

Actually since he was prodded yesterday, today he'd either have to show up and post something useful (and if we accept the implicit scumclaim and hammer), or be force replaced and we'll get SOMETHING out of it.
See how Magua's sticking around twilight and doing all he can? And yet you don't want Lihin doing the same for some reason I can't possibly comprehend.
I hope you get shot tonight, that'll practically mod confirm Toon as town and hopefully Drixx will come back to normal with negative influence not around.

pedit;
@Narninian
Whoever your initial target is going to be, the redirect is best on BP, no? I mean, BPs should be playing to draw in NKs on themselves but with open claims early game they are doing the opposite and spreading the bullets around people who don't have vests. Unless your receipt tells you whether it failed because your initial target received no night action or it failed because you tried redirecting it to scum. I don't remember the details but you mentioned something in that regards.

I still have no technical problem with Lihin lynch because he gave me zero posts to townread him combined with all the lurking and very poor use (or one of the worst possible) of his power.
It's just how people went about hammering him, I still wanted to know what Lihin was thinking, who he used his power on D1 if he did, etc.
Because IF HE FLIPS SCUM, what he said before death could have led us right to another.
I stress this point because Pika death resulted in an obvious double scum kill D2, clearly Lihin lynch pre-comeback must have led to another D3. /sarcasm

@Copper
Pika, who flipped Berlin Undercity Mafia, scumread me so I must be Volcano Mafia. That's some mysterious detective skill you have. If you called me Pika's partner that would have been more convincing.

@Copper
Oh I'm sorry I didn't expect multiple experienced players to miss such basic idea of why we wait before a hammer.
And if you want to frame me, you can come up with a frame regardless of whether I stay on the wagon or jump off, whether I display concern or not.

Now, then, answer me. You repeatedly posted that you were waiting for Lihin's answer to my questions. Where were you when the rest of town was clamouring for a hammer, when you were still waiting for Lihin's answers. Forget about the people you suspect, but to your fellow towns it didn't cross your mind that they're being played and you should warn them? By simple math, the wagon is still 50%+ town regardless of how scums vote, especially more so since the town powers are not OP to justify shifting balance in scum favour in terms of headcount.
I'm not really blaming you, I just find it interesting you're calling me black.

wgeurts, when you don't pay attention to the game it really detracts from any credibiility you may have.

Also Brantz is pretty fucking town straight from a role perspective. The role is too powerful for scum.

I disagree.
13 player game scum wincon = let ~7+ town die before ~3 of you get wiped out.
13+13 player multiball game scum wincon = let ~20+ players die before ~3 of you get wiped out.

The easy (very hopeful) scenario is Ozgin keep busting scums to survive the nights and simply checking BRantz once his power runs out. I don't see how staying safe and letting someone else die is a very powerful pro-town power?

pedit;
@Copper
I didn't know they wanted my guts D1. I think it's fine if they did and I died, if Mollie looked suspicious after my townflip I could have been traded 1 for 1, if TPTG looked suspicious I could have been traded for a, with the information so far if truthful, conftown. And the opportunity to inspect the motive behind all the other people on that wagon.

And if you did tell players to hold off and TPTG and Toon all got bonered and hammered it anyway, that tells you how they REALLY perceive you despite saying they like and trust you publicly in the thread.

if Vyse is town probably scum but since I am still leaning scum on Vyse

What

PV is still in this game?
Well his last post says Pika soft defended vonflare therefore they're of the same faction. Is 5 vote count a good time to publicly defend your buddy despite potentially gaining associative clues later on? At 1/3 of the lynch requirement, it's plausible.
I don't know how close night is and I don't know if I want to bother diving in. I think PV should do the work for us and present all the evidence nicely quoted or referenced into a one coherent post. I think he should have found some more evidences between posts ~1200 and ~3600.

pedit;
But in multiball how does it work like that? Like even if both scumteams wanted to cooperate and kill a few town before they start killing each other, they don't know who's town and who's the other faction so one wagon winning with that much gap between the two isn't necessarily a sign of scum's doing. Or you think they have a more primitive mindset like "hey it's not one of us, let's just lynch him and get D1 over with"?

Let's find the mention of BC... oh waiiitt...

[Titus]

The only way Death investigated Bulba and got that result is as a scum rolecop.

[God of Power Outlets]

Well Titus I'll take blaming people for Jackel's lynch for 200....and rolefishing for 300...

[Titus]

The mention of investigating Bulba I meant. There's nothing that suggests that Death investigated Bulba. Maybe you can find it.

Cerebus, try to look.

If not, this lynch should be fucking easy.

[God of Power Outlets]

No, I thought we were doing a sketch, or a bit. Work with me dammit!