8:4 Vanilla Nightless [TM2015] - GAME OVER

[Nachomamma8]

Who does Kagami align herself with? Does she bus her deadweight partners and take away all chances of winning?

[GreyICE]

Why would Kagami, a person who has been away from mafia for quite some time and only replaced into the deadweight SilverWolf slot as a favor, play optimally?

It might be an unconscionable blunder for scum. But it's a NONSENSICAL STATEMENT from town.

[Nachomamma8]

Kagami's strategy to align himself with Sotty, Seraphim and Eddie is a tactical blunder that is unconscionable for scum.

It wasn't clear that Sotty was going down when Kagami aligned herself with her initially. Aligning herself with the lurkers allows her to better control lurker town's vote, which is also crucial to winning this setup.

[Nachomamma8]

There's not really much she can do alone to turn the tide: scumteam all needs to play well or the game is lost. When her partners aren't putting
in work, what options does she have?

[Albert B. Rampage]

He was willing to lynch Sotty for a while to get a mislynch on me, which is warning bells level of play for basically anyone. Both Shadoweh and LLD commented on how bad it was, LLD wanted me off the Sotty wagon then and there (I'm not so sold on it as her, but it was bad juju).

It's misguided more than scummy if you ask me. It's like shooting yourself in the foot with a shotgun.

I'm more interested in giving Kagami a chance to come around and rectify his views than outright getting rid of an active player that isn't as scummy as Seraphim or Sotty.

Why would Kagami, a person who has been away from mafia for quite some time and only replaced into the deadweight SilverWolf slot as a favor, play optimally?

It might be an unconscionable blunder for scum. But it's a NONSENSICAL STATEMENT from town.

He played with me in MTG not that long ago. He wasn't like, retired or anything. SW might have replaced out due to the pressure of having a team rely on her as town, we can't discount that. There simply isn't enough to go on here, I maintain that it's a high risk lynch.

Who does Kagami align herself with? Does she bus her deadweight partners and take away all chances of winning?

Again, you're doing it. You're coming from the premise that the game is figured out. It's day one. You don't know who's scum. I certainly don't. Your surge in confidence is threatening my town read on you. It doesn't seem natural.

Kagami's strategy to align himself with Sotty, Seraphim and Eddie is a tactical blunder that is unconscionable for scum.

It wasn't clear that Sotty was going down when Kagami aligned herself with her initially. Aligning herself with the lurkers allows her to better control lurker town's vote, which is also crucial to winning this setup.

Yet he continued to place her at the top of his town list (after me) as of a few pages ago. I want to give him an opportunity to correct his thinking and adjust his views. If he's inflexible, fine, we lynch him.

[ZZZX]

you knwo his readlist has one thing scum always has: faking readlists.

the good thing about this game so far is that obv town/scummy people are set. there are minor differances in read lists. but when someone comes and gives you something that looks... inversed without explination its clear that its a case of fake scumhuntingt

[ZZZX]

He was willing to lynch Sotty for a while to get a mislynch on me, which is warning bells level of play for basically anyone. Both Shadoweh and LLD commented on how bad it was, LLD wanted me off the Sotty wagon then and there (I'm not so sold on it as her, but it was bad juju).

It's misguided more than scummy if you ask me. It's like shooting yourself in the foot with a shotgun.

I'm more interested in giving Kagami a chance to come around and rectify his views than outright getting rid of an active player that isn't as scummy as Seraphim or Sotty.

Why would Kagami, a person who has been away from mafia for quite some time and only replaced into the deadweight SilverWolf slot as a favor, play optimally?

It might be an unconscionable blunder for scum. But it's a NONSENSICAL STATEMENT from town.

He played with me in MTG not that long ago. He wasn't like, retired or anything. SW might have replaced out due to the pressure of having a team rely on her as town, we can't discount that. There simply isn't enough to go on here, I maintain that it's a high risk lynch.

Who does Kagami align herself with? Does she bus her deadweight partners and take away all chances of winning?

Again, you're doing it. You're coming from the premise that the game is figured out. It's day one. You don't know who's scum. I certainly don't. Your surge in confidence is threatening my town read on you. It doesn't seem natural.

Kagami's strategy to align himself with Sotty, Seraphim and Eddie is a tactical blunder that is unconscionable for scum.

It wasn't clear that Sotty was going down when Kagami aligned herself with her initially. Aligning herself with the lurkers allows her to better control lurker town's vote, which is also crucial to winning this setup.

Yet he continued to place her at the top of his town list (after me) as of a few pages ago. I want to give him an opportunity to correct his thinking and adjust his views. If he's inflexible, fine, we lynch him.

I dont mind if he comes and explains his top 2 scum./town reads. Would you rather explain them kagami?

[Albert B. Rampage]

when someone comes and gives you something that looks... inversed without explination its clear that its a case of fake scumhuntingt

That's a good point.

If Kagami doesn't come in today and say "hey guys I was completely wrong in my read list and I admit it, after conferring with my team, we agree that Sotty and Seraphim are extremely scummy and I'm willing to lynch them today and here's my vote", then he's given up on this game and deserves a lynch.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Who will help me lynch Nacho if Kagami flips town?

[ZZZX]

when someone comes and gives you something that looks... inversed without explination its clear that its a case of fake scumhuntingt

That's a good point.

If Kagami doesn't come in today and say "hey guys I was completely wrong in my read list and I admit it, after conferring with my team, we agree that Sotty and Seraphim are extremely scummy and I'm willing to lynch them today and here's my vote", then he's given up on this game and deserves a lynch.

I would settle for any decent scumhunting based case personally.

[Albert B. Rampage]

ZZZX?

[ZZZX]

ZZZX?

some people might have reads stubid enough that it seems scum crafted. as long as I see something that proves that its an actuall read i might look at the person as not scum-slipping literraly. however that doesnt prove the reads are even close to being good.

[ZZZX]

meanwhile my vote is staying btw

[Albert B. Rampage]

ZZZX, you're not blindly buying what Nacho is selling, are you?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Are you going to help me lynch Nacho when I call upon you, ZZZX?

[GreyICE]

Who will help me lynch Nacho if Kagami flips town?

Not I. Kagami is terrible, his play is trash, his reads are inconsistent, and he seems to have zero awareness of what's a good argument, what's a bad argument, whatever. It's sheer throwing shit at the wall to see if it sticks. I swear unto fucking god there is zero evidence that he has read this game. He vanished after his initial replace in just to show up yesterday saying the same bullshit he did on day 1. Silverwolf posted two terrible posts and is in two other games that she didn't replace out of. These are all GREAT REASONS to lynch someone. Hell, SilverWolf alone would be a great reason to lynch that slot!

Seraphim and Sotty are good votes, but if you want me to lynch Nacho based on that, hells no.

Now if Sotty flips scum, you've had my support since this post, it's saved in our team topic. Because that was some wonderful misdirection. But without that flip, fuck no.

Oh fine fuck it.

Vote: Sotty

I'm sure I'll get ANOTHER call for inconsistency from Kagami, but the number of fucks I give is actually literally zero.

[Nachomamma8]

...

[Nachomamma8]

Grey, it's torture getting a wagon together. Why are you jumping off the wagon of someone you are pretty damn sure is scum when it has finally built to a pretty good size and the person on it whose alignment is most in question is me?

[Nachomamma8]

I don't give a fuck how many scum bodies I have to drop in thread before ABR/Titus stop suspecting me because I know that my picture of the game is right and I know it's only going to get easier from this point because 3/4 of the town block is moving together and scum don't have an easy alternative. But when you hop off a strong wagon onto a weaker one despite strong wagon composition and despite having scumreads on both wagons, you're splintering the vote for absolutely no reason.

[GreyICE]

Nacho, all I want for Christmas is a scum lynch. Give me a gun with 4 bullets, I will shoot Sotty, Kagami, Seraphim, and Hoopla. This will result in a minimum of two scum flips, I swear to you. Like quit mafia for being a shitter levels of swear here.

If you think I didn't notice you undercutting my pressure you forget that I really do actually give a fuck about the game.

I FUCKING WANT DEAD SCUM

Also the "what choice did Kagami have" post was shitty. Like, Kagami could have done many things. What he actually did was so amazingly fucking poor that it baffles the imagination, that's why he has an enormous wagon on him. I'm aware the philosophy of spaghetti logic when you're trying to get a lynch on scum, but that one was WIFOM as fuck. It looked like he tossed together a reads list in 15 seconds to appease me (his fucking first choice for scum, apparently) which would have been a much BETTER thing for you to highlight. Why you are painting Kagami as having a plan? That reads list was the most checked out of the game thing I've ever seen.

[GreyICE]

Like, go back and look at the reads list. It has the team names in it! He browsed to the front page and reordered the list!

Team Mafia 2015: Vanilla Nightless

1. Albert B. Rampage (Blue, Meth, Blade and Associates)
   
2. EddieFenix (The Leftovers)
   
3. GreyICE (TBD)
   
4. Hoopla (Confectionery Animals)
   
5. Kagami
   Silverwolf
   (The Hitmen)
   
6. Metal Sonic (team nocaps)
   
7. Nachomamma8 (Gestalt)
   
8. Seraphim (The Unviggable Vegetables)
   
9. Sotty7 (The Kliq)
   
10. wgeurts (Young and Beautiful)
    
11. Zar
    Empire
    (The Westeros Circlejerk)
    
12. ZZZX (TEAM WITH NO NAME)

Scum

GreyICE (TBD)
Hoopla (Confectionery Animals)

Zar Empire (The Westeros Circlejerk)
wgeurts (Young and Beautiful)
Metal Sonic (team nocaps)
Nachomamma8 (Gestalt)
ZZZX (TEAM WITH NO NAME)

EddieFenix (The Leftovers)
Seraphim (The Unviggable Vegetables)
Sotty7 (The Kliq)
Albert B. Rampage (Blue, Meth, Blade and Associates)

Town

He didn't even bother to remove Empire's name next to Zar's.

That's not the post of some mastermind. There ain't one ounce of shit given anywhere in that post. Were you just playing rabble rouser for ABR?

[Nachomamma8]

WE HAVE THE SAME SCUMPOOL. I HAVE A WAGON WITH NOT ONE, NOT TWO, BUT THREE PLAYERS WHO ARE OBVIOUSLY TOWN ON THE WAGON WITH ME. WHY ARE YOU VOTING ANYWHERE ELSE BUT HERE?

[GreyICE]

Fine.

Vote: Kagami

[Seraphim]

Unvote
Vote: sotty

I've mulled things over. All things considered, I still want a Hoopla lynch; her being scum is a sure thing for me at this point. But I figure that's something we can do in the future, I think.

Here's my concise rationale for my vote. No way are GreyICE and Kagami scum together; same with GreyICE and sotty. A scumflip from either of them means a cleared GreyICE. The reason I want sotty over Kagami is that sotty-scum almost certainly implicates Kagami but vice versa does not hold up as well. Sotty is actually distancing away from Kagami's defense and the subsequent smackdown with GreyICE in some of her posts, as she does not respond to them at all. (Take a look back thru ISO) I could imagine Kagami as scum trying to start noise to defend her scumbuddy and push the wagon onto GreyICE. Frankly, this is not something I would expect Kagami to do unless they were scum together or Kagami was town. I can explain this more if people want but I don't have time now.

I also resent being told that I'm lurking when I have a perfectly respectable post count thank you.

[Albert B. Rampage]

MS, read what GreyIce and I wrote regarding Nacho in the last two pages.

Tell me what you think.