Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

For Team Mafia 2015 Games and Information
Forum rules
User avatar
ChannelDelibird
ChannelDelibird
He/they
Card Czar
User avatar
User avatar
ChannelDelibird
He/they
Card Czar
Card Czar
Posts: 10601
Joined: March 18, 2006
Pronoun: He/they
Location: Nottingham, UK
Contact:

Post Post #1325 (ISO) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:51 pm

Post by ChannelDelibird »

Empire wrote:(and I certainly don't believe for a second that CES would only think my replacement is "less skeevy", I think town-CES would have been a lot more unequivocal in that read).


I think this is an example of how it's difficult to scumhunt someone through the translations of their team-mates. CES didn't believe that it was a strategic move at the time and he doesn't believe it now. "CES is less leery than I am" was an accurate statement, but I'm trying to paraphrase from our chats (and it's possible that - unconsciously, I mean - I paraphrased in a way that emphasised less his conviction there because I was, as I say, more leery of the move).

He also says that he didn't do a great deal of analysis on his team's other games last time he was in TM. A lot of his chatting with chamber came after CES himself had died in his game, which he seems to recall zoraster mentioned in the post-game (something that he thinks might excuse you for thinking he was more active than he was).

CES still thinks I should trust you so I'll probably vote for somebody else when we finally get to the Major Day. But I'm far less happy than he is.
#greenshirtthursdays
User avatar
ChannelDelibird
ChannelDelibird
He/they
Card Czar
User avatar
User avatar
ChannelDelibird
He/they
Card Czar
Card Czar
Posts: 10601
Joined: March 18, 2006
Pronoun: He/they
Location: Nottingham, UK
Contact:

Post Post #1326 (ISO) » Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:17 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

ChannelDelibird wrote:CES still thinks I should trust you so I'll probably vote for somebody else when we finally get to the Major Day. But I'm far less happy than he is.


Correcting this because I misunderstood CES: he "still" trusts you even though he recognises that there are good reasons why he shouldn't. We've been talking, for example, about my feeling that reaching past me to scumhunt him specifically is something that you might do if you'd replaced into an in-danger Zar slot as a way of looking invested and knowledgeable, while the fact that you're essentially arguing through a third-party translation gives you more leeway to wilfully misinterpret as scum. It's clearly inherently flawed for you to focus on him as much as you are.

Other things that are bugging me include your focus on me and not on, say, the Antihero/TTH swap. You have a team-mate in the other game. I'm surprised that you've mentioned it only as much as 'does TTH like being scum?'.

I know that you
can
get sidetracked on misreading me because of our experience in The Wire, but it's like you can't decide whether or not you're paying attention to that experience when you read me here. That I find strange.
#greenshirtthursdays
User avatar
T S O
T S O
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
T S O
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 16301
Joined: February 11, 2013

Post Post #1327 (ISO) » Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:22 am

Post by T S O »

Well, vezok is happening. I'll hammer whenever.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
-Marquis
User avatar
Cheetory6
Cheetory6
MS Painter
User avatar
User avatar
Cheetory6
MS Painter
MS Painter
Posts: 7397
Joined: September 21, 2014

Post Post #1328 (ISO) » Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:00 am

Post by Cheetory6 »

@mastin
, can you give me your thoughts on Bulba right now?
User avatar
Cheetory6
Cheetory6
MS Painter
User avatar
User avatar
Cheetory6
MS Painter
MS Painter
Posts: 7397
Joined: September 21, 2014

Post Post #1329 (ISO) » Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:03 am

Post by Cheetory6 »

CDB wrote:I didn't bring up Empire's slot before that post. CES popped up and said that Empire shouldn't be Baned and I agreed.
Why would you say the Black Goo instead of just saying CES?
User avatar
ChannelDelibird
ChannelDelibird
He/they
Card Czar
User avatar
User avatar
ChannelDelibird
He/they
Card Czar
Card Czar
Posts: 10601
Joined: March 18, 2006
Pronoun: He/they
Location: Nottingham, UK
Contact:

Post Post #1330 (ISO) » Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:05 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

Cheetory6 wrote:
CDB wrote:I didn't bring up Empire's slot before that post. CES popped up and said that Empire shouldn't be Baned and I agreed.
Why would you say the Black Goo instead of just saying CES?


Variety, I guess. I'm a subeditor by trade; repetition is to be avoided. Plus it's always fun to say 'the Black Goo'. I didn't really put a lot of thought into it.
#greenshirtthursdays
User avatar
Cheetory6
Cheetory6
MS Painter
User avatar
User avatar
Cheetory6
MS Painter
MS Painter
Posts: 7397
Joined: September 21, 2014

Post Post #1331 (ISO) » Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:14 am

Post by Cheetory6 »

Heh. Okay.
Can you walk me through how and why your vezok read has adjusted through this cycle?
User avatar
ChannelDelibird
ChannelDelibird
He/they
Card Czar
User avatar
User avatar
ChannelDelibird
He/they
Card Czar
Card Czar
Posts: 10601
Joined: March 18, 2006
Pronoun: He/they
Location: Nottingham, UK
Contact:

Post Post #1332 (ISO) » Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:26 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

Cheetory6 wrote:Heh. Okay.
Can you walk me through how and why your vezok read has adjusted through this cycle?


For most of the game I barely noticed him, apart from him repeatedly and regularly saying that Empire is town. Didn't really know where to file that because I know neither vezok nor Empire very well.

CES suggested him as someone hard to read but who didn't contribute much so we could probably live with it if scum used his Baning to kill him. Worked for me.

Around the time when ffery volunteered him as her only suggestion for our Booning, I did a little look over vezok's iso, which is when the stuff that I mentioned here struck me. So for now I am townreading him.
#greenshirtthursdays
User avatar
Cheetory6
Cheetory6
MS Painter
User avatar
User avatar
Cheetory6
MS Painter
MS Painter
Posts: 7397
Joined: September 21, 2014

Post Post #1333 (ISO) » Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:33 am

Post by Cheetory6 »

Oh nifty. I actually had the exact same thought on the Marquis wagon analysis when I looked through vezok's ISO.
I wasn't aware that you and Empire didn't really know each other that well. Gonna try to motivate myself to read through your interactions again at some point with this in mind. I think I'm feeling closer to null with you after these interactions. I'd like to see where your head goes once we can start voting for lynches though.
User avatar
ChannelDelibird
ChannelDelibird
He/they
Card Czar
User avatar
User avatar
ChannelDelibird
He/they
Card Czar
Card Czar
Posts: 10601
Joined: March 18, 2006
Pronoun: He/they
Location: Nottingham, UK
Contact:

Post Post #1334 (ISO) » Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:40 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

Cheetory6 wrote:I wasn't aware that you and Empire didn't really know each other that well. Gonna try to motivate myself to read through your interactions again at some point with this in mind.


We've played maybe two or three games together at most but, as you might have gathered, CES knows him and his team much better than I do.

FYI, I currently have you as null-town. You seem natural enough and the post on which I pulled you up was probably nothing important.
#greenshirtthursdays
User avatar
fferyllt
fferyllt
She
Titan of Trajectory
User avatar
User avatar
fferyllt
She
Titan of Trajectory
Titan of Trajectory
Posts: 19412
Joined: December 28, 2012
Pronoun: She
Location: Left Coast

Post Post #1335 (ISO) » Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:51 am

Post by fferyllt »

Empire, curious if/how your reads have evolved.
Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.

On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologist
Idic
User avatar
Titus
Titus
She/her/hers
Moon Walker
User avatar
User avatar
Titus
She/her/hers
Moon Walker
Moon Walker
Posts: 75991
Joined: May 3, 2013
Pronoun: She/her/hers
Contact:

Post Post #1336 (ISO) » Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:31 am

Post by Titus »

@TSO, why are you willing to hammer a boon on a player you are scumreading? I really want a boon but I don't trust you to hammer it.

Anyone just hammer this day.
Show
The scum had the misfortune of Titus being absurdly accurate on day one.Really quite impressed by that.~Drixx

You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin

GTKTitus Part 2
Titus Academy

Friend, Enemies, and That Other Person is now in signups. Click here to sign up.

VLA Friday nights until Sunday morning.
User avatar
hitogoroshi
hitogoroshi
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
User avatar
User avatar
hitogoroshi
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 3450
Joined: February 24, 2008
Location: shiftless layabout

Post Post #1337 (ISO) » Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:40 am

Post by hitogoroshi »

VC 36 (Minor Day 1, VC 36)


Boon:
This Minor Night, in addition to using a Minor Night action, target player may learn the Sign of any other player. This does not interact with any abilities in any way.

(9)
vezokpiraka:
Gammagooey, Espeonage, Shadoweh, ChannelDelibird, Titus, GuyInFreezer, Aronis, DeasVail, vezokpiraka [L-1!]

(4)
T S O:
T S O, Cheetory6, Marquis, Bulbazak
(vezokpiraka)

(3)
Tammy:
GuyInFreezer, DeasVail, Untrod Tripod
(GuyInFreezer, Bulbazak)

(2)
Marquis:
Aronis, TellTaleHeart
(1)
Shadoweh:
ActionDan
(Aronis)


(3)
No Boon Vote:
Empire, mastin2, Tammy

With 19 votes in play, it takes 10 to Boon. Deadline is Sunday, April 5th at 9 PM CST.

Minor Day One Deadline(expired on 2015-04-05 21:00:00)


Less than twelve hours until deadline.

GuyInFreezer is V/LA until April 6th.
"Don’t buy a dozen eggs if you just want a hardboiled egg. Don’t buy a head of lettuce if you just want a salad. Don’t buy eggs and lettuce if you want egg salad because those are not the right ingredients." -Julius Bloop
User avatar
Marquis
Marquis
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Marquis
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 11276
Joined: June 23, 2013
Location: EST (−6?)

Post Post #1338 (ISO) » Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:55 am

Post by Marquis »

happy busy su day
Boon: vezok
link in bio
User avatar
hitogoroshi
hitogoroshi
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
User avatar
User avatar
hitogoroshi
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 3450
Joined: February 24, 2008
Location: shiftless layabout

Post Post #1339 (ISO) » Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:59 am

Post by hitogoroshi »

VC 37 (Minor Day 1, VC 37)


Boon:
This Minor Night, in addition to using a Minor Night action, target player may learn the Sign of any other player. This does not interact with any abilities in any way.

(10)
vezokpiraka:
Gammagooey, Espeonage, Shadoweh, ChannelDelibird, Titus, GuyInFreezer, Aronis, DeasVail, vezokpiraka, Marquis [Decided!]

(3)
T S O:
T S O, Cheetory6, Bulbazak
(Marquis)

(3)
Tammy:
GuyInFreezer, DeasVail, Untrod Tripod
(2)
Marquis:
Aronis, TellTaleHeart
(1)
Shadoweh:
ActionDan

(3)
No Boon Vote:
Empire, mastin2, Tammy

With 19 votes in play, it takes 10 to Boon. Deadline is Sunday, April 5th at 9 PM CST.

Minor Day One Deadline(expired on 2015-04-05 21:00:00)


GuyInFreezer is V/LA until April 6th.
"Don’t buy a dozen eggs if you just want a hardboiled egg. Don’t buy a head of lettuce if you just want a salad. Don’t buy eggs and lettuce if you want egg salad because those are not the right ingredients." -Julius Bloop
User avatar
hitogoroshi
hitogoroshi
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
User avatar
User avatar
hitogoroshi
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 3450
Joined: February 24, 2008
Location: shiftless layabout

Post Post #1340 (ISO) » Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:17 am

Post by hitogoroshi »

Spoiler: The force between minds becomes real.
There was much discussion, in those first nascent days.

The power of the Signs was a new and strange thing. Old methods had to be unlearned, new ones discovered. Like flowers opening for the first time to the rays of spring, the assembled minds had to learn how to interact with each other. How to interact with the group mind between them.

But how wonderful and strange it was when they did. When they could force a sign burning into the daylight. When they could give someone a bit of the true sight, just by thinking of it. When they could change the fundamental rules of what happened when the Signs clashed.

When the fatigue become too much to bear and they marched off one by one to sleep, they felt exhilarated and humble and vulnerable all at once. They were a ring of ghosts, their physical forms half-formed, suggestive things that only persisted from the memory of their persistence. But in exchange for that, they existed in a different plane, standing brazenly tangent to the real.

They sleepwalked in the world of the signs.


The
Boon's
target has been decided.

This Minor Night, in addition to using a Minor Night action,
vezokpiraka
may learn the Sign of any other player. This does not interact with any abilities in any way.


The First Minor Day has ended. The First Minor Night has begun.


Remember, fferyllt is not a living player in this game and so is not a valid target for Trace or Detect.

Don't forget the templating clarification from post 4. If you use Detect, you must also submit a Sign with your Detect.

Minor Night One will end Tuesday, April 7th, at 7PM CST.

Minor Night One Deadline(expired on 2015-04-07 19:00:00)
"Don’t buy a dozen eggs if you just want a hardboiled egg. Don’t buy a head of lettuce if you just want a salad. Don’t buy eggs and lettuce if you want egg salad because those are not the right ingredients." -Julius Bloop
User avatar
hitogoroshi
hitogoroshi
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
User avatar
User avatar
hitogoroshi
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 3450
Joined: February 24, 2008
Location: shiftless layabout

Post Post #1341 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:12 am

Post by hitogoroshi »

The following reminder PM has just been sent to relevant parties:

If you're receiving this PM, you have at least one available Minor Night action and I don't currently have a Minor Night action on the books for you. Deadlines in just under 12 hours.


No metagaming on timing/wording, nerds.
"Don’t buy a dozen eggs if you just want a hardboiled egg. Don’t buy a head of lettuce if you just want a salad. Don’t buy eggs and lettuce if you want egg salad because those are not the right ingredients." -Julius Bloop
User avatar
hitogoroshi
hitogoroshi
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
User avatar
User avatar
hitogoroshi
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 3450
Joined: February 24, 2008
Location: shiftless layabout

Post Post #1342 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:41 pm

Post by hitogoroshi »

Spoiler: Morning brings a new reality.
The distant, dreamlike quality of that first day was gone. More than gone.

They surged with a strange, impossible vitality. The power of the Signs. They could understand why the void had been unable to resist the call.

This was a force intimately tied with visualization and analogy, and wielding it required a metaphor. Lynching had been the one that stuck.

But of course there was no noose. Fortified as they were with the Signs, they couldn't be undone in such a mundane way. Instead, the executioner was the insane crescendo of force in the space between their minds. It was a raging bull of creation, an monolith of
is
against which one couldn't help but
not be
. The matadors each did their part to direct it, and when enough reached consensus - well, it hadn't happened yet, but it was clear what that force would do.

It was an inevitable monster, birthed and directed by their selves. They could only pray they pointed it correctly.


The First Minor Night has ended. The First Major Day has begun.


With 19 players alive, it's 10 to lynch.

Major Day One will end Saturday, April 25th, at 9PM CST.

Major Day One Deadline(expired on 2015-04-25 20:00:00)
"Don’t buy a dozen eggs if you just want a hardboiled egg. Don’t buy a head of lettuce if you just want a salad. Don’t buy eggs and lettuce if you want egg salad because those are not the right ingredients." -Julius Bloop
User avatar
Gammagooey
Gammagooey
Glad Hatter
User avatar
User avatar
Gammagooey
Glad Hatter
Glad Hatter
Posts: 7562
Joined: October 24, 2009

Post Post #1343 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:45 pm

Post by Gammagooey »

VOTE: Bulbazak
User avatar
Titus
Titus
She/her/hers
Moon Walker
User avatar
User avatar
Titus
She/her/hers
Moon Walker
Moon Walker
Posts: 75991
Joined: May 3, 2013
Pronoun: She/her/hers
Contact:

Post Post #1344 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:46 pm

Post by Titus »

Ok I propose that we use half the deadline for each lynch.

VOTE: TellTaleHeart

Come out to play.

@Gamma, that's probably going to be lynch one but I just think it's wrong and I don't get why anyone finds him scummy at all.
Show
The scum had the misfortune of Titus being absurdly accurate on day one.Really quite impressed by that.~Drixx

You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin

GTKTitus Part 2
Titus Academy

Friend, Enemies, and That Other Person is now in signups. Click here to sign up.

VLA Friday nights until Sunday morning.
User avatar
Empire
Empire
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Empire
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1530
Joined: September 9, 2012
Location: Hamilton, ON

Post Post #1345 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:50 pm

Post by Empire »

Vote: TTH
User avatar
Espeonage
Espeonage
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Espeonage
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 11586
Joined: December 17, 2009
Location: Galar Maybe?

Post Post #1346 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:52 pm

Post by Espeonage »

Going to say this now before someone claims the trace on me.

I detected last night, correctly guessed and therefore got a positive effect. I don't get told what the effect which is annoying. But I figure it should clarify any issues someone that traced me might have.
Don't @ me.
User avatar
Tammy
Tammy
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Tammy
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 15361
Joined: January 13, 2012

Post Post #1347 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:53 pm

Post by Tammy »

VOTE: tth
I am in the top 90% of scumhunters onsite!
User avatar
hitogoroshi
hitogoroshi
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
User avatar
User avatar
hitogoroshi
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 3450
Joined: February 24, 2008
Location: shiftless layabout

Post Post #1348 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:53 pm

Post by hitogoroshi »

VC 38 (Major Day 1, VC 1)


(3)
TellTaleHeart:
Titus, Empire, Tammy [L-7]
(1)
Bulbazak:
Gammagooey

(15)
Not Voting:
Actiondan, Aronis, Bulbazak, ChannelDelibird, Cheetory6, Deasvail, Espeonage, GuyinFreezer, Marquis, mastin2, Shadoweh, TellTaleHeart, T S O, Untrod Tripod, vezokpiraka
(Gammagooey, Titus, Empire, Tammy)


With 19 votes in play, it takes 10 to lynch. Deadline is Saturday, April 25th, at 9PM CST.

Major Day One Deadline(expired on 2015-04-25 20:00:00)
Last edited by hitogoroshi on Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Don’t buy a dozen eggs if you just want a hardboiled egg. Don’t buy a head of lettuce if you just want a salad. Don’t buy eggs and lettuce if you want egg salad because those are not the right ingredients." -Julius Bloop
User avatar
Empire
Empire
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Empire
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1530
Joined: September 9, 2012
Location: Hamilton, ON

Post Post #1349 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:54 pm

Post by Empire »

Something I wanted to respond to but the thread got locked:

fferyllt wrote:Empire, curious if/how your reads have evolved.

Aside from second guessing the initial scumreads in my big catch-up (including CDB, whom I actually liked his response to my case), not at all. Regfan and I are still discussing our reads and we're disagreeing about some of them a lot more than I am used to so that's undermining my already low confidence. I'm hoping I can just start at square one here and repair my ability to actually read mafia games.
Locked