Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Bulbazak]

Since when were we going to policy lynch someone?

THAT'S what you took out of everything I said?

[Aronis]

Yep. So earlier you seemed to indicate a scumread on me, but now you've switched to just wanting to policy lynch me. What changed? And why are you advocating a policy lynch over lynching your scumread?

[Bulbazak]

Oh, I still scum read you, but I don't think you're a bad lynch even if you're town. You bring nothing to the table and will do more harm than good in the long run. That the policy part. The scum part comes from your fluff posts, thrown together reads, and opportunistic stances, which is a trademark of scum you. Personally, I think your lynch would be a win-win.

[Aronis]

Can you please point out where I have been opportunistic? And when did fluff become a scum tell?

[Bulbazak]

Can you please point out where I have been opportunistic?

Shallow read list that copies the current consensus. Votes (and yes, I include banes and boons here too) that are only on the most popular wagon. Your entire vote/read history is "let's do what everyone else is doing".

And when did fluff become a scum tell?

Are you serious?

[Espeonage]

Vezok bringing in the good stuff.

[hitogoroshi]

VC 39 (Major Day 1, VC 2)

(6)

TellTaleHeart:

Titus, Empire, Tammy, Aronis, Marquis, vezokpiraka [L-4]
(1)

Bulbazak:

Gammagooey
(1)

Gammagooey:

Bulbazak

(11)

Not Voting:

Actiondan, ChannelDelibird, Cheetory6, Deasvail, Espeonage, GuyinFreezer, mastin2, Shadoweh, TellTaleHeart, T S O, Untrod Tripod

(Aronis, Marquis, Bulbazak, vezokpiraka)

With 19 votes in play, it takes 10 to lynch. Deadline is Saturday, April 25th, at 9PM CST.

Major Day One Deadline

(expired on 2015-04-25 20:00:00)

[Aronis]

Can you please point out where I have been opportunistic?

Shallow read list that copies the current consensus. Votes (and yes, I include banes and boons here too) that are only on the most popular wagon. Your entire vote/read history is "let's do what everyone else is doing".

And when did fluff become a scum tell?

Are you serious?

Maybe it's because those people are obvtown and stuff, has that ever crossed your mind? If everyone had a different perception of how scum are how the hell are we supposed to come to an agreement and lynch anyone? There's been 3 votes so far, vezok was a compromise bc of the deadline plus the innocent child supported that, I announced both of my other scumreads prior to voting them so it's not like I just jumped on each wagon as it came along.

[Bulbazak]

Except that there's no progression in any of your reads. For example, why are you voting TTH?

[Aronis]

According to my teammate, antihero doesn't like playing as scum and tth isn't living up to town meta expectations.

Actually reading my posts would be a start.

The antihero replace out + tth's boon vote without explanation.

[Bulbazak]

Yep. That doesn't look phoned in at all.

[Bulbazak]

Unvote

Vote Aronis

[Titus]

@Bulba, I'd like to pick your brain on some of the places where we disagree on reads. If you could take for instance Vezok and state a simple case about why you're scumreading him and I'll state a simple case on why I'm townreading him and we can see if we can figure that out or not. You're my biggest townread in the game at the moment, and I don't like how your scumread by a lot of players. I also don't get it.

I'm leaving for the night, but I'm leaving you something to discuss so worst case scenario my reads may improve.

[Aronis]

You think vezok os scum bulba? Lol.

[Espeonage]

I am against a TTH lynch because of reasons.

[ChannelDelibird]

I approve of the TTH heat - Antihero doesn't like being scum and literally never posted anything 'in-character' in this thread and TTH's contributions have been well below what I think should have been expected (still want her to answer these questions) - but I am also interested in how quickly this wagon has sprung up given that she did not receive very much heat during the Minor Day. I'd like those who are voting her to talk about when and how they got to the point of scumreading her.

I have a few thoughts to get out! I got up to page 41 in a full thread reread during the Minor Night, which I think helped me a lot, and I should be finishing that this evening. Similarly, Patrick and Fenchurch started full reads but didn't have the time or sanity to finish but I'll collate what input they have so far when I write up some of my notes, which will happen soonish (just starting work this morning, we'll see how busy it is). The main headline is that I got a better handle on the Tammy/Zar stuff than I did on first read and my current read on Empire is now in the 'leaning town' pile, even though I still have some problems with the slot's approach to things.

Also, seeing as

Aronis

has been around without paying attention to it, I'd like to remind him that I made this post.

[Bulbazak]

@Bulba, I'd like to pick your brain on some of the places where we disagree on reads. If you could take for instance Vezok and state a simple case about why you're scumreading him and I'll state a simple case on why I'm townreading him and we can see if we can figure that out or not. You're my biggest townread in the game at the moment, and I don't like how your scumread by a lot of players. I also don't get it.

I'm reevaluating Vezok at the moment. I've asked Mollie to look over his ISO and let me know what she thinks, but her statement that Tammy is scum is making me consider that I've been off not only there, but also on Empire, which would put Vezok square in "most likely town". I may have just had a bad knee jerk reaction to him. I still hate the last post of his from the minor day, though.

P-edit: Why is your approval for TTH essentially Aronis's reason word for word?

[ChannelDelibird]

P-edit: Why is your approval for TTH essentially Aronis's reason word for word?

Because it's fucking true? The fact that I made the most that I linked before the end of Yesterday should be proof enough that I've been thinking about this, at least. I also don't know why you think I'd randomly come in and start sheeping Aronis's reads of all people at 7 in the morning.

[ChannelDelibird]

EBWOP: "...made the post..." not most

[Titus]

@Bulba, When you get your reads settled, particularly Tammy scum as that's shocking, let me know why.

Also what is that other thing your talking about.?..Aronis could not have used the same reason precisely as me...but all the votes for the most part are TTH lurking votes.

[ChannelDelibird]

Also what is that other thing your talking about.?..Aronis could not have used the same reason precisely as me...but all the votes for the most part are TTH lurking votes.

The PEDIT was to me.

[Bulbazak]

@Bulba, When you get your reads settled, particularly Tammy scum as that's shocking, let me know why.

I've actually asked Mollie to explain that one, because I had her as town. When she gives me a reason, I'll share.

[Espeonage]

Hey Bulba. Can you ask mollie if she thinks that Tammy's tone is town frustrated or scum default? She's seen both recently, they are both similar.

[Bulbazak]

If that isn't part of her explanation, sure.

[ChannelDelibird]

Some things that I want to talk about. Mostly a collection of reread notes; if there's a lot or if my read isn't clear, I'll put a little tl;dr at the end of each to get across where I currently stand.

Spoiler: Zar/Empire

Why does Zar seem to expect Tammy to have gone back through all the post-game of the last Team Mafia to develop a read re: token usage on a person whom she already thinks she knows quite well? Ridiculously high standards.

Tammy's meta read of Empire comes across as something I could believe but then I don't have enough experience of Empire.

However, I think I must have missed this from Zar on first read, his last post in the slot which talks about how he would generally avoid Tammy etc. Generally, he comes off a lot better than I remembered and I'm now much happier about how the switch with Empire came to be, which was a sticking point earlier.

I wonder if Empire has a problem with this from Marquis, who has a good team but says they're all too busy to help out significantly in this game.

Empire saying that DV doesn't care about his image is off. DV has been talking a lot in this game about his being Paragon, what people expect from that, how he thinks he plays and how he expects his play to change in relation to that. He's very self-conscious. I don't think that's necessarily a scummy thing if he's only just won the title (first game since?) but i think you have to say he's massively image-conscious.

tl;dr

I have a lot of problems with the slot, most of which now are covered by my posts at the end of Minor Day One, and don't think I want those glazed over because Empire's brief response this Morning does not seem appropriately extensive. But I'm much happier about how the switch with Zar came about, which gives me more of a neutral-to-town baseline on the slot rather than it already looking bad when I was doing most of my previous reading on it. I'm now with CES in as much as, if you put a gun to my head, I'd say the slot is town playing a pretty flawed game, but we both have our issues. For example, CES can't understand why Empire wasn't more apologetic about the 'reading your angry posts is funny' thing. Patrick preferred Empire's first big reads list to his late-Minor Day case on me and has used the word "trainwreck" about the slot.

Spoiler: Supplementing vezok & Marquis townreads

I think scum would like to encourage confusion about their nightkill plans, so vezok reaching out to ffery to (it looks like) get a confirmed town's hypothesis on how best to counter scum seems like a pro-town thing to do.

Marquis talking about UT seems like genuine scumhunting.

Spoiler: DeasVail and Bulbazak

DeasVail's preference for Choice 1 strikes me as pro-town because it was what I was thinking.

This does sound weird about Bulba.

Bulba putting down a read on mastin who literally hadn't posted yet is what-the-fuck-worthy, even if trying to be a smartass is prrrrobably not alignment-indicative here.

DeasVail seems to have overreacted massively to what looked like a reasonable, if uninteresting, expression of support for Cephrir's read from Bulbazak. However, I do agree that Bulbazak saying he "looks lost" isn't reflected in DV's posts. Not sure whom I come out of this post agreeing with more.

"Okay Mastin, I think I see where you're coming from. It's how Cheetory's approaching the game, right?" - this is the most meaningless sentence ever. Every read is about how a player approaches the game. This feels like buddying from Bulbazak.

tl;dr

Leaning town on DeasVail (though I am always inclined to townread him on presentation alone, so this isn't as strong as my other townreads) and I am kinda unhappy with Bulbazak. He's in my pile of scum suspects, though Patrick (before I wrote up these notes, btw, and circa page 33 in his read) wasn't very interested in a scumread on him.

Spoiler: Man, my Cheetory read goes up and down like a yo-yo

Just gonna post my notes in sequential order and it should become obvious that I am going back and forth hard on this slot.

Cheetory asking Shadoweh to talk about the Fantasy Camp reference sticks out to me. Seems like the sort of fillery scum question that I hate, except it even has the potential to make widely townread Tammy look bad.

Cheetory encouraging Tammy to sleep on Zar read either reads town or Zar-buddy, can't decide which. Obviously more likely to be town of the two if Empire is town.

I know I just told him it's probably not important but I'm still not completely happy with this. If anyone's opportunistically jumping on UT forgetting that ffery is confirmed town, it's Cheetory.

This seems town from Cheetory.

tl;dr

Stuff still bothers me, I go back and forth, but my best guess at the moment is that Cheetory's likely to be town whom I just don't quite 'get'.

Spoiler: Still not a fan of GiF

This is in theory a good question from GiF but it seems like Cheetory should answer it after Tammy wakes up in the morning and either does or doesn't reconsider like she was asked. That would allow Cheetory to better make up his mind. So I don't know the best way to put this but I'm put off by GiF asking it now.

C'mon, Gif, really? Way too certain. Plus, if you are sure that town couldn't forget, why are hyper-sensitive scum (because they are) more likely to forget? If I were scum I'd be on eggshells around the confirmed town. And if he didn't forget, if he knew what he was doing, what is the benefit for either alignment doing that? This just feels like Gif is hoping to get UT mislynched in the near future.

Also just generally I think GiF's had a very minimal impact despite having circa 100 posts. I'm not impressed.

Spoiler: Quick point on Gamma, who is a very null read for me right now

Kind of weird to have no Tammy-Zar comment from Gamma here.

Spoiler: Uncomfortable with Espeonage

This from Espeonage feels like an attempt to get information to the scum about people's wanting/not wanting to be booned. I'm not a big fan of this as a get-out clause.

The stuff early in this Major Day is annoying in that it doesn't feel like he's taken the time to figure out how the fuck his role works which, like, c'mon, you just had two days to figure out all that basic stuff, but I guess it seems kinda genuine? I certainly

wish

that town would care enough to figure things out overnight but that's probably not as true as I'd like. Maybe Espeonage just refuses to give enough of a shit.

tl;dr

Has pinged me a bit but stuff Today seems maybe genuine. If you're town, shape up a bit.

---

So this is me once again acknowledging that I think the TTH wagon is a good thing but I'd like to hear more from both her and those involved. In the meantime, I'm going to vote for another scumread because we have time to work on more than one wagon.

VOTE: GuyInFreezer