Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[mastin2]

Hi.
I'm here.
I basically am not in the game aside from blind flailing.
I wake up in 4.75 hours (it's 1 AM and I get up at six), so no promise of getting caught up, but my life IS looking like it's FINALLY, FINALLY getting into the clear, so I should be able to make sense of this stuff soon.

[mastin2]

So I'm here, but I'm not really here, you could say.
I certainly don't have the strength of four players at my back.

I'm going to be the sorry soul who did absolutely nothing but got nightkilled early-on via policy alone.
(Yes, I will try to fix that.)

[Tammy]

Lim kinda interested in people clamming their detects and traces. We my hot catch someone in a lie and we can hold them accountability

We who reached could out are chih

My sleeping kill just kicked in and I literally happen go

No.

Is anyone else concerned that the wagon on TTH took off so fast?

@Tammy: Also, Mollie just told me you're scum. What do you have to say to that?

Vote Gammagooey

I have no idea why she would say that, but it fits with the topsyturvey theme that's going on thus far.

I think there's enough in the thread not to get weird on me on, so this feels like a reaction test and I'm just going to *shrug*.

[Tammy]

vote tth

why did you detect dv?

Well and this is why I'm voting tth, but Oversoul wanted me to keep quiet about who she detected until later.

[Tammy]

@Bulba, I'd like to pick your brain on some of the places where we disagree on reads. If you could take for instance Vezok and state a simple case about why you're scumreading him and I'll state a simple case on why I'm townreading him and we can see if we can figure that out or not. You're my biggest townread in the game at the moment, and I don't like how your scumread by a lot of players. I also don't get it.

I'm reevaluating Vezok at the moment. I've asked Mollie to look over his ISO and let me know what she thinks, but her statement that Tammy is scum is making me consider that I've been off not only there, but also on Empire, which would put Vezok square in "most likely town". I may have just had a bad knee jerk reaction to him. I still hate the last post of his from the minor day, though.

P-edit: Why is your approval for TTH essentially Aronis's reason word for word?

Um that was serious?

[Tammy]

Hey Bulba. Can you ask mollie if she thinks that Tammy's tone is town frustrated or scum default? She's seen both recently, they are both similar.

Why don't yu ask the confirmed fucking town that is actually playing in this game, has played more games with me, and can read me better.

[Tammy]

Cdb - regarding 1399 and the zar switch. That would have made a whole lot of sense 3 years ago, since then we've been rather amicable in games and out. Off the top of my head, he's played faradays adwd and wire game with me, and most recently MASTIN'S unbalanced game with me. He's also played/modded several games with me at westeros, so that read kinda weird to me. It also comes in response to my reaction to him clearly insulting me. And yeah it does feel weird that empire didn't bother apologizing for insulting me but instead turned it around on me that my reaction pissed his team off.

[Tammy]

mod - I'll be v/la until April 20th.

I will be able to post, but it will probably be kinda spotty. I'm defending my dissertation next week then submitting my manuscript of all goes well. Cross your fingers for me!

[Tammy]

Hey Bulba. Can you ask mollie if she thinks that Tammy's tone is town frustrated or scum default? She's seen both recently, they are both similar.

Why don't yu ask the confirmed fucking town that is actually playing in this game, has played more games with me, and can read me better.

And to spell this out a bit more clearly, you are asking someone of unknown alignment when we have confirmed town who has been my scum partner, seen me as scum while she's town - in one of my better recent scum games - and modded me as scum, played more and more recent games with me who also has a back up in nacho who can also read me quite well. ( I can fool nacho sometimes for a little while but I have to tailer my game specifically to him in order to do that)

It's weirding me out that the people who should be able to read me by now ARENT and are avoiding ffery and their team's read on me like the plague. Shouldn't there be some conversation there? Find out why you're wrong or get her to see where they're wrong? I mean if these are actual real concerns you people are having. If not carry on with your "paranoia".

[Espeonage]

Hey Bulba. Can you ask mollie if she thinks that Tammy's tone is town frustrated or scum default? She's seen both recently, they are both similar.

Why don't yu ask the confirmed fucking town that is actually playing in this game, has played more games with me, and can read me better.

See Tammy, the thing is that mollie has played with scum you very recently, I have a rapport with mollie as of recent and I don't have a good rapport with the confirmed town.

Now with that out of the way.

I'm getting more and more happy in my read that you're scum. Truth be told I found myself unapproving of the tth wagon simply because you were on it which took me by surprise tbh. Your tone here doesn't read to me like the frustrated got irl stuff tone as far as I can tell, which is about the only explanation I have for the amount of scumminess I am feeling from your posts. And even if that is the reasoning for your tone it still doesn't mean you're town, it takes it to null, at most. I don't have the most experience with you but I'm going off what I do have. And your responses to people here for the most part aren't looking town.

I'm pretty sure you're scum.

Vote: Tammy

gots a preedit come up

[Espeonage]

Hey Bulba. Can you ask mollie if she thinks that Tammy's tone is town frustrated or scum default? She's seen both recently, they are both similar.

Why don't yu ask the confirmed fucking town that is actually playing in this game, has played more games with me, and can read me better.

And to spell this out a bit more clearly, you are asking someone of unknown alignment when we have confirmed town who has been my scum partner, seen me as scum while she's town - in one of my better recent scum games - and modded me as scum, played more and more recent games with me who also has a back up in nacho who can also read me quite well. ( I can fool nacho sometimes for a little while but I have to tailer my game specifically to him in order to do that)

It's weirding me out that the people who should be able to read me by now ARENT and are avoiding ffery and their team's read on me like the plague. Shouldn't there be some conversation there? Find out why you're wrong or get her to see where they're wrong? I mean if these are actual real concerns you people are having. If not carry on with your "paranoia".

I have my own reads, am capable of making my own reads and capable of making my own decision. Fery will post herself, she doesn't need promting like someone not in the game does.

[Tammy]

That's nice, I'm not.

Well when you are flat out fucking wrong, you should.

[Tammy]

People who cannot read me on tone clearly shouldn't try.

[Tammy]

eerious question is serious espeonage. Have you bothered reading my posts yet?

[Espeonage]

Nope. Not all of them.

[Espeonage]

I am going to ask though. What is the relevancy of my having read all of the posts for the purposes of getting a read when I have sufficient information from what I have read? It has never been an issue before and it's been my MO for catching scum sometimes int he past with a decent success rate.

[fferyllt]

I will flip a million tables over this Tammy bullshit.

Nacho and I talked over our Empire read overnight and we're leaning town there now, but still can't fathom the Tammy misread.

We also went back through the game to see if there's something we missed that justifies the scumreads and indicates maybe we're wrong about her.

And that was a big huge nope.

Other thoughts right now:

Nacho thought the interactions between DV and Marquis felt off. But the offness seemed mostly from the Marquis side. Which is a comfort to me because I was on my own in not liking Marquis in Gestalt.

I think Aronis and TTP both are good targets for clarification.

[ChannelDelibird]

We're not lynching Tammy.

[ChannelDelibird]

Nacho thought the interactions between DV and Marquis felt off. But the offness seemed mostly from the Marquis side. Which is a comfort to me because I was on my own in not liking Marquis in Gestalt.

Is! This! Not! Just! Because! Of! The! Off-putting! Punctuation! And! Shit?! Otherwise I don't really see it.

[DeasVail]

It's unnerving that he's not playing in a manner that he knows most players would town read him if he's town.

Why do you think he wouldn't do this if he's scum?

I am against a TTH lynch because of reasons.

How good are these reasons in your opinion? (This is a genuine question and not meant to be sarcastic)

Empire saying that DV doesn't care about his image is off. DV has been talking a lot in this game about his being Paragon, what people expect from that, how he thinks he plays and how he expects his play to change in relation to that. He's very self-conscious. I don't think that's necessarily a scummy thing if he's only just won the title (first game since?) but i think you have to say he's massively image-conscious.

For what it's worth this isn't something I have a problem with from them, but I'll let Empire respond before elaborating. I'd also be interested in examples of where you came to the conclusion that I care about my image. It's true, and I do way more than I should, but I'm pretty sure the paragon stuff is kind of irrelevant so you mentioning that as the reason is .

Regarding Bulbazak, I think you're right that I did over-react, especially regarding Ceph's read on Cheetory. I'm still worried about being too emotionally invested in scumreading him, so I'll have another look through his posts before voting him or anything like that (this'll take a while to happen though). However, there are many things about him that still bother me, including in the post I over-reacted to.

--

Espe, I think you're town and I think Tammy's town. Please tell me where I/others have gone wrong in our reads of Tammy. I'm not saying it's impossible, but with my team thinking Tammy's town and ffery & co. thinking Tammy's town, it's hard to be doubtful about my own read.

Regarding TTH, my impression of her was (and still kind of is) scum, but I need to hear more from her. Detecting me is more (or perhaps not more) interesting than you may expect, but I'm not entirely sure what to make of it right now.

[fferyllt]

No, it's not. I talked about stuff that bothered me late yesterday.

Still not liking Bulba, btw.

[Espeonage]

Oh man those reasons are shit. Don't even worry about them.

[fferyllt]

Oh man those reasons are shit. Don't even worry about them.

What is this about?

[Espeonage]

That was in reference to DV's question.

[Marquis]

Nacho thought the interactions between DV and Marquis felt off. But the offness seemed mostly from the Marquis side. Which is a comfort to me because I was on my own in not liking Marquis in Gestalt.

I can kind of see where I was trying too hard for the snark even beyond the !!! but I just really want to be able to both like and townread DV but one of those things makes me super uncomfortable to death as of late!

I just want a super strong townread or two that I can rely on as things inevitably go to shit further down the line and it bothers me that I can't think of anything significant off the top of my head rn other than Tammy and DV who are still scaring the shit out of me, mostly the latter. whether that's an issue of the game so far or on my own personal issues end idk but either way I have a distinct lack of clingable townreads and an excess of incident-driven mild suspicions/scumreads :/

also re: tth, it's not a policy lynch at all. the switch earlier and huge differences in meta expectation from both sides of the team make the wagon ~work~!! oh and the result too mmm