Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[singersigner]

UNVOTE:

TTH wagon effective. No need for it anymore. If he vanishes again with no vla, my vote is going back.

We need to talk on some of those reads Mastina. Espy entered as a "need to sort" read. Also, your reads on me/GiF/DV suck. CDB gives me bad vibes because I am 95% sure his votes on towI get he has to do his own investigation and shoving GiF as town is really antitown since I cannot prove it.

So looking back, can you explain why your vote would only go back with another bout inactivity, if it was a pressure vote in the first place? Seems to me that would be more indicative of consistent inactivity, rather than scummy "oh shit better not get lynched" behavior. What makes it not scummy "oh shit better not get lynched" behavior now, especially in light of vezok's claim?

I agree that the TTH wagon shot up pretty quickly, but I haven't really seen anyone explain why that's such a bad thing right now, especially given the opportunity to have two lynches.

[Cheetory6]

omfg. im dumb.
I didn't realize there are two lynches.
Okay yeah, midcycle lynch makes a lot of sense to me @Titus.

[Bulbazak]

I agree that the TTH wagon shot up pretty quickly, but I haven't really seen anyone explain why that's such a bad thing right now, especially given the opportunity to have two lynches.

It wasn't just that it shot up quickly. It was that it shot up quickly early. Even with two lynches, that is unusual behavior, and I'm not seeing the town push behind the wagon, especially since the reasoning given at that time was crap and very surface. And yes, I even think Vezok's reasons, while understandable, are not airtight reasons to lynch him, given as I can think of a couple of town reasons for detecting DV.

[Cheetory6]

Again, with this notion that everyone on this wagon is trying to quicklynch TTH.
It's baffling to me that you're acting like this is anything but a pressurewagon.

[Titus]

UNVOTE:

TTH wagon effective. No need for it anymore. If he vanishes again with no vla, my vote is going back.

We need to talk on some of those reads Mastina. Espy entered as a "need to sort" read. Also, your reads on me/GiF/DV suck. CDB gives me bad vibes because I am 95% sure his votes on towI get he has to do his own investigation and shoving GiF as town is really antitown since I cannot prove it.

So looking back, can you explain why your vote would only go back with another bout inactivity, if it was a pressure vote in the first place? Seems to me that would be more indicative of consistent inactivity, rather than scummy "oh shit better not get lynched" behavior. What makes it not scummy "oh shit better not get lynched" behavior now, especially in light of vezok's claim?

I agree that the TTH wagon shot up pretty quickly, but I haven't really seen anyone explain why that's such a bad thing right now, especially given the opportunity to have two lynches.

It was a pressure vote to get activity from TTH. He's pretty adept at catching scum when I play with him, so I want him around. Yeah, I know that's like all of you, but I don't like smart people lurking especially. The votes were pressure to get him to contribute so I could read him. If he's here and contributing, the votes did their purpose. I wasn't in a hurry to lynch him and I'm surprised it took off.

[Titus]

I didn't like the composition of the Shos wagon. I felt it was a bad wagon that built up too fast and was being championed by scum. I feel the same way about the TTH wagon. There were only two people with good reasons for being on that wagon, and neither of them are pushing it now.

Ok that makes sense, so I take it you were referring more to the day 1 wagon. Got it.

[ActionDan]

Since lm behind on this game due to my hiatus Im going to try a simple approach that doesn't possibly feel like I'm a wet log

There are two major wagons on TTH and espionage atm. I haven't a clue on either. So for of you who think you do, please give concise reasons why or why not I should vote either or none of them.

Thanks

[Titus]

@AD, TTH wagon sucks. Espy wagon has cool people on it. Don't get it though.

[singersigner]

Again, with this notion that everyone on this wagon is trying to quicklynch TTH.
It's baffling to me that you're acting like this is anything but a pressurewagon.

To be honest, it's starting to look like the resistance to it is scum motivated, because scum think/know that's the

right way

to react to a wagon like that one. For clarification of how I'm describing "that one": quick and with limited interactions before doing so.

Preview Edit:
@Titus...I'll look back at more context, but when you say "I

wasn't in a hurry

to lynch him" that strays away from the idea that it was simply for pressure. Are you still surprised it took off given the circumstances with Antihero's replacement, Vezok's result, and your own pressure vote? They all seem like pretty varying reasons to vote the same person at the first sign of the opportunity to do so.

What about pressure voting anyone else...like ActionDan for example? From an activity overview perspective, Aronis also has that few posts, and Shadoweh, Gamma, mastin, vezok...all on the low end of posting.

[Aronis]

UNVOTE: tth

Copper thinks tth's catchup stuff is indicative of town.

[Titus]

@SingerSinger,

I'm not the most clear or unawkward when I post. When I meant I wasn't in a hurry to lynch him, I meant lynching him based on what we have is not a good idea. I vote someone, say it's a pressure vote and it takes off when it takes miracles when I'm confident on a scumread the town agrees on... hell yeah I find that wagon suspicious. I'm nicer but I didn't suddenly become a persuasion god overnight. (see Bulbazak still scumread).

Pressure voting AD and Mastina is likely to lead to nothing, as they've lurked across the site due to VLAs (at least that's what I think it was). Aronis is under pressure. Shadoweh is pretty town, same with Vezok so pressuring them would just be assholey. Gamma has also had pressure.

I don't want any more pressure votes or bullcrap. You want someone lynched, say why they are scum or what you're hoping to achieve. Scum will take an opportunity to jump on a pressure vote.

You want to push that TTH wagon, you're going to have to bring reasons. The ones Empire promised will be a start.

I'm feeling not nice Titus coming out.

[hitogoroshi]

VC 44 (Major Day 1, VC 7)

(4)

TellTaleHeart:

singersigner, Tammy, Marquis, Cheetory6

(Aronis)

[L-6]
(3)

Espeonage:

mastin2, Titus, ChannelDelibird
(3)

Aronis:

Bulbazak, vezokpiraka, Espeonage
(1)

Bulbazak:

Gammagooey
(1)

Marquis:

TellTaleHeart

(7)

Not Voting:

Actiondan, Deasvail, GuyinFreezer, Shadoweh, T S O, Untrod Tripod, Aronis

(Espeonage)

With 19 votes in play, it takes 10 to lynch. Deadline is Saturday, April 25th, at 9PM CST.

Major Day One Deadline

(expired on 2015-04-25 20:00:00)

Tammy is V/LA until April 20th. CDB is V/LA until April 17th.

T S O has been prodded.

[Titus]

Alchemist Inital Bulbazak and TTH thoughts

He jumped into the mid 50s and got to page 60 - 61. He'll be on LA this weekend, but he wanted to get these thoughts out, since the other game ended so he didn't forget.

He liked Bulba and Mollie's interaction as positive for the both of them. Bulba asking Mollie for reads seemed initially protown if Mollie knew Tammy better. Mollie's response did read like a reaction test to Alch, so he agrees with Bulba's assessment.

Alch wants Bulba to hi to Mollie by the way.

Alch states that he liked TTH's catchup, but his reads are eerily similar to Mastina's. He'd like to see TTH's reads fleshed out before saying a definite townread but it's a good lean.

[Bulbazak]

Again, with this notion that everyone on this wagon is trying to quicklynch TTH.
It's baffling to me that you're acting like this is anything but a pressurewagon.

That's a pretty blatant misrepresentation of what I'm saying. I was saying that the wagon was most likely heavily scum pushed, with some on and some not on the wagon. I think the speed and composition of that wagon should be giving people pause. I was not saying that everyone on that wagon was trying to accomplish a quick lynch, just that the scum pushing the wagon were. It was quick, easy, and such a clusterf- that no one was going to look at it twice. And don't even try to pass it off as a pressure wagon. Titus may have been trying to pressure TTH, but there's no way everyone on that wagon was, especially when several tried to justify their vote in other ways that equaled not pressure.

[Titus]

@Bulba, who do you think the people justifying their vote on TTH as more than pressure were? Why?

[Titus]

Ugh TSO prodded...just after he lost that boon he really wanted...

[Cheetory6]

So how many people on it do you think are scum hoping to get a quicklynch on TTH?
2? 3?
I could see vezok being town who wants a quicklynch there.
Other than that, you have at least four votes which are just there to get some pressure on TTH to respond to things and get into the game.
I think most of the wagon would have been on anyone's case if they hammered, so why are you acting like "oh man no one will look at it twice" when that's blatantly just not what would happen if a quicklynch were to go through.
And this is all assuming that TTH is town.
And and looking at how fast wagons grow is a shitty way of determining whether it's full of scum or not, especially in a game with this many people and so few scum. In all likelihood at least 60+% of the wagon was town. And that's being generous to your whole argument of 'the entire purpose of that wagon is scum trying to befuddle the game!'. It just feels like you're grossly oversimplifying the situation in an unrealistic way.

[Cheetory6]

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding you, but like man it feels like you're trying really hard to discredit everything about the wagon and everyone who's on it for reasons that are wayyyyyyy too general to be realistic.

[mastin2]

I feel horrible doing this, but I have to say it.
Empire's replace-out wasn't a town one.
singer's content is not town content.
That read's not a holdover of a read on Empire. I mean that singer's content simply isn't town, in addition to her slot not having been town in any of its iterations.

I have the same feelings regarding the TTH wagon as I did with the Shos wagon in Unbalanced 2. It's a bad lynch.

Then you should have the same feels about Esp as you did about Toon!

[Cheetory6]

Bleh. Bulba might be town.
I think I'm doing a dumbtunnel, which makes me feel like I'm getting caught up on gratey townthings rather than things that are scummy. q.q

[mastin2]

For those who don't get it, yes, I am saying Esp is scum, like Toon was scum. The push there seems good.
The push on TTH is horrible, and yes, Bulb is right in his reasoning, too. (Incidentally, it increases the townread there, so IF--and this is becoming an increasingly HUGE if--Bulb's scum, his defense is a smart one.) His reasoning is (almost) my reasoning. The push is just bad, and the people that supported the wagon are mostly bad.

[Titus]

@Cheetory, Why do you think there are few scum? Is there something I missed about the mods confirming the number of scum?

@Mastina, I am leaning that way. I could kinda tell when mean!Titus started coming out. That whole, let's pressure more people was really anti-town.

I am trusting you on that Espy read.

[Titus]

The let's pressure comment was referring to Singer Singer.

[Cheetory6]

It is a conflict between sixteen Creation aligned players and four Annihilation aligned players

[Titus]

Oh ok...I didn't see or recall that.