Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Cheetory6]

@mastin, you think that scum was trying for a quicklynch here?
:/

[Cheetory6]

Also, mastin, can I get more on your read on marquis right now?

[Gammagooey]

this is probably a bit rambly

So to me bulba's early posts just feel really empty. I don't like that all of his early posting about mastin could easily be something that he legitimately thinks and believes to be true as scum, his early certainty in his cheetory read feels overly confident for how early in the game it was at the time, and his early townread on Titus doesn't feel justified to me at all and felt like a fabricated read when I think Titus could definitely be convinced/talked through her mastin read the way she was as either alignment.

I also think his read on vezok was pretty garbage, that his discrediting way of going after Deas and I using wording like this-

Do you have anything more substantial, or are you going to just dance around the surface.

is a minor scumtell, that his vote on me coming right as he might think the little wave of suspicion around me might show up to back him up without actually giving anything on why he thinks I'm scum, and don't see any reads based on his own thought processes that stand out as something that shows that he's likely town- pretty much all his scumreads I can see that aren't about fairly to highly talked about players seem to be based on their reactions to him as opposed to being from reading over them and seeing something that strikes him as being scummy.

It feels a LOT like an enormous chunk of the talking he's doing here is for the sake of arguing as opposed to actually getting scumreads and getting them lynched.

Admittedly I don't have a ton of other solid reads since I just haven't really been able to keep a handle on 50 pages of this many players and he has had a few little chunks of things that have looked town but I think that pretty much all of them aren't hard to fake as scum (including the posts about mollie, if bulba is scum I doubt mollie would go look up all of his scumbuddies instead of just giving him legitimate looking reads to post) and my gut feeling about him early game was AWFUL and I'm pretty sure I'm still going to want him dead by the end of this day.

[Gammagooey]

yeah I missed a few words in that paragraph after the quote but I think the meaning is still pretty clear

second line should be "on why he thinks I'm scum is bad, and I don't see any reads based on his own thought processes"

[singersigner]

I feel horrible doing this, but I have to say it.
Empire's replace-out wasn't a town one.
singer's content is not town content.
That read's not a holdover of a read on Empire. I mean that singer's content simply isn't town, in addition to her slot not having been town in any of its iterations.

I have the same feelings regarding the TTH wagon as I did with the Shos wagon in Unbalanced 2. It's a bad lynch.

Then you should have the same feels about Esp as you did about Toon!

1. Why do you feel horrible for voicing your opinions/reads?
2. I'm not really going to argue how town or scum my content is as I don't really have any content to contribute right now with what little I've read and how far behind I am. If you'd like to read more into my posts than there is, I suppose that's your prerogative.
3. I need to interact with people to figure out the game and I don't see you positioning yourself in a way I can do that with you having shut down that flow of communication before it even started. Was this on purpose?

@Titus...I'm not really sure what you mean with your last post. Are you trying to suggest that I was saying "let's pressure more people" as opposed to deducing your motivation for not putting a blanket pressure vote on people producing low activity?

You're also going to have to explain "mean Titus" to me, since I don't recall ever actually playing in any games with you, and as far as I can tell, nothing in the last page should've been provoking enough to warrant any sort of aggressive response.

[Cheetory6]

Meh. Sure.
There's a lot of weird interactions in the Esp ISO wrt Empire. Gonna be lazy and sheep this for now because it seems decent and my reads are muddly now anyways so weeeeeeeeeeeeee.
VOTE: Espeonage

TTH should still start posting more and being more townish because stubbornness and I don't want to just sheep mastin [though I'm honestly kind of feeling tempted to]. q.q

[singersigner]

I do acknowledge I've noticed Aronis receiving pressure lately, and don't negate the overall pressure people with low activity have gotten this game. My point was questioning Titus in particular, since TTH was the only vote Titus ever placed for pressure due to inactivity based on her ISO. My only goal was to clarify why.

[Titus]

omfg. im dumb.
I didn't realize there are two lynches.
Okay yeah, midcycle lynch makes a lot of sense to me @Titus.

Good. Ok.

[Titus]

Will review the rest tomorrow. Good night.

[Cheetory6]

Singer what do you think of Espeonage?

[fferyllt]

@FFery,

Do you think my idea to lynch at middeadline and then lynch at the end of the day is a good one?

I don't have a lot of double day experience, and the experience I have involved a set deadline for the first and second lynches iirc.

Anyway, my feeling is that where we go after the first lynch is highly dependent on the first flip. And that we'd benefit by spending more time on the first. my gut says 2/3 to 3/4 of the available time, probably closer to 2/3.

I'm going to run this question by my team because they may have more experience to draw on than I do.

[Bulbazak]

@Bulba, who do you think the people justifying their vote on TTH as more than pressure were? Why?

I'd be looking at the ones trying to push TTH on the basis of the switch with Antihero. That was a crap line of reasoning and seemed thrown together to not seem as if they were sheeping. Aronis and CDB come to mind here (one on, one off), but I think there was another as well. Pushing based on an informationless switch seems like something scum would do.

So how many people on it do you think are scum hoping to get a quicklynch on TTH?
2? 3?

I don't know. I'd have to look at the wagon again. I'm thinking at least two, with one off the wagon but supporting it.

I think most of the wagon would have been on anyone's case if they hammered, so why are you acting like "oh man no one will look at it twice" when that's blatantly just not what would happen if a quicklynch were to go through.

In this case, I'm pretty sure a hammer would have been from a town player. My point is that no one would be looking at where scum actually were on the wagon. Everyone would dismiss it as a bunch of town being hungry for a lynch after the minor day, citing TTH's lack of posting to justify their push, but no one would look at who was actually on the wagon. Essentially, it would be an embarrassment that town would want to sweep under the rug and pretend didn't happen.

And and looking at how fast wagons grow is a shitty way of determining whether it's full of scum or not, especially in a game with this many people and so few scum.

Normally I'd agree with you, but I'm looking at the speed at which that wagon took off, and I'm having a hard time seeing that as being a naturally town driven one. Sometimes if the progress of something seems off to you, you trust your gut and put up the caution sign.

I feel horrible doing this, but I have to say it.
Empire's replace-out wasn't a town one.
singer's content is not town content.
That read's not a holdover of a read on Empire. I mean that singer's content simply isn't town, in addition to her slot not having been town in any of its iterations.

Let's just be more specific here Mastin. The not town content coming from Singer is her attempt to try to limp wristedly push the TTH wagon back into the spotlight based on "information". As I've said, the TTH wagon was a clusterf-, and using it for information will probably lead to more mislynches if scum are pushing that angle. I could see Singer trying to promote lynching those nervous about the speed of the wagon, rather than those on the wagon pushing for crap reasons. Besides, if she really wanted to lynch someone based on interaction and who would give the most information, she'd be angling for my lynch.

I have the same feelings regarding the TTH wagon as I did with the Shos wagon in Unbalanced 2. It's a bad lynch.

Then you should have the same feels about Esp as you did about Toon!

I'm torn on Esp and am trying to get that all figured out. Personally, I'm not liking some of CDB's stances. They seem way too strategic.

I don't like that all of his early posting about mastin could easily be something that he legitimately thinks and believes to be true as scum

But if I were scum, wouldn't I

know

it to be true?

his early certainty in his cheetory read feels overly confident for how early in the game it was at the time

Talk to Titus or Mastin about how confident I tend to be on my reads during the game.

his early townread on Titus doesn't feel justified to me at all and felt like a fabricated read when I think Titus could definitely be convinced/talked through her mastin read the way she was as either alignment.

So you don't see at all where I interact with Titus and try to understand if she's coming from a town or scum place?

I also think his read on vezok was pretty garbage, that his discrediting way of going after Deas and I using wording like this-

Do you have anything more substantial, or are you going to just dance around the surface.

is a minor scumtell, that his vote on me coming right as he might think the little wave of suspicion around me might show up to back him up without actually giving anything on why he thinks I'm scum

Okay, so now we've reached the meat of the entire read: You don't like that I was suspicious of you, your town read, or that I didn't bow down to the obv. town DV when I interacted with him. If you're town, you need to majorly reset here.

and don't see any reads based on his own thought processes that stand out as something that shows that he's likely town- pretty much all his scumreads I can see that aren't about fairly to highly talked about players seem to be based on their reactions to him as opposed to being from reading over them and seeing something that strikes him as being scummy.

Definitely reread or start to back this up.

It feels a LOT like an enormous chunk of the talking he's doing here is for the sake of arguing as opposed to actually getting scumreads and getting them lynched.

If you think I'm not actually getting scum reads from my lines of questioning/interaction, then you really need to reread the game.

[GuyInFreezer]

Will

re

view the rest

tomorrow

later. Good night.

[fferyllt]

Mastin, usually you and I don't do a lot of direct interaction in games.i

I think the rest of this game day could benefit by being an exception.

I'm not sure how to go about thisl, but I'm going to start with a revised reads list sometime tomorrow.

[fferyllt]

Will

re

view the rest

tomorrow

later. Good night.

:/

[GuyInFreezer]

As I said earlier, I'm probably gonna switch with one of my teammate bc I think my situation makes me incapable to follow this.
But it's not set so I'm gonna try to catch up whenever I have a time.

[GuyInFreezer]

I could switch with ika but he wants to make sure titus know that if he replaces in he's not gonna do jack for 4 game days and maybe do shit in lylo.

[singersigner]

Singer what do you think of Espeonage?

Uh, he hasn't posted since I started reading from the beginning (page 20), and the few posts he made in the last couple of pages were pretty negligible?

This might've been addressed already, but according to my team (Regfan), there's no role that justifies visiting one of the more universally town-read people in the game that can be proven the next day, etc. with regards to TTH. (Mina) It looks more like he's trying to save himself another day, and based on how many actions we can assume scum have, could use those to lie.

@Bulb...I'm not really sure what you're trying to say about me here. We have two lynches, but if you're arguing that your lynch would give us more information right now, then I'd be willing to look further into you. Someone specifically asked me about TTH, so that's where my attention landed. You're more than welcome to point me in a different direction, but until then, don't act like I made up what to comment on out of no where.

[Cheetory6]

I'd like your updated thoughts on him once you're caught up. tia.

[Marquis]

i know i've been in a mafia slump lately but i just keep thinking "i need to get back into this game" prob bc it's team mafia and i can't let them down when they're practically just trusting me with the biggest part and i want to play this naturally but then i don't want to vi again and like... presssssssure. endless pressure. i know i keep complaining about this too but i have to explain because literally fucking everyone seems to be saying "this isn't normal for marquis" and guess what i knoooooooooooooow. god

like originally my plan was to enter day lynchtime with a big reads list and try to establish myself as something other than lynchbait for once but then i just got kinda busy but mostly lazy af and sheeping the tth wagon felt good - also i don't get why bulba is so quick to call it a pressure wagon/votes when it should be really obvious by now that it isn't at all and not just for me - but now i'm just stuck here not really knowing what to do because the wagon just melted away and i don't get why because there's nothing particularly appealing either way about esp except he seems to be the one catching flak for earlier tammy paranoia (which while i guess i'm glad people aren't senselessly yelling at me for it i don't really like how it seems like the "blame" for that seems to have settled wholly on esp. not to mention how it even feels like a whole blame shame and name game anyway).

[Marquis]

also i suppose this is the part where i drop these little grains of salt all around me seeing as i feel like i might be misremembering something from my last skim wrong but it's too late and too mobile for me to care rn sorry not sorry

[Marquis]

@Singer,

I started that wagon on TTH with the intent of dragging him back into the game and getting involved. I'm not a big fan of actually lynching him. I'd rather focus on getting stable townreads and lynch whoever isn't actually in said group. Then we can take what we learned. I don't think much would be learned from lynching TTH. Lynching someone people are actually pushing as scum seems to be a better idea.

We also have two lynches today if we fit them both in by the day deadline.

oh

so you're one of those people too

before we potentially get into a discussion i don't want to make last any more than 1 post

please tell me why tth is not someone who "people are actually pushing as scum"

because this is a very clearcut statement and i want to know how far i can try and think about titus things before i get any repeats

also fun fact i just found out it's double day? i get townpoints for that right

[Bulbazak]

This might've been addressed already, but according to my team (Regfan), there's no role that justifies visiting one of the more universally town-read people in the game that can be proven the next day, etc. with regards to TTH. (Mina) It looks more like he's trying to save himself another day, and based on how many actions we can assume scum have, could use those to lie.

I like how you go with "proven". It's like you know what he is and are trying to get him lynched so that you don't have to worry about his ability during the major night.

also i don't get why bulba is so quick to call it a pressure wagon/votes when it should be really obvious by now that it isn't at all

I'm not. Cheetory is. My point was that the wagon was being heavily pushed by scum.

[Marquis]

scratch that it's more like triple day!

i was just complaining to my team about how this game is probably going to last into the fall but wow! revelations
(preemptive "sorry hito")

[Marquis]

hey bulba let's play a game it's called name the scum and if you say "marquis" and not "tthteam themselves" or [some other person i don't remember who exactly was on the wagon atm but who i could see as/think might be scum if given the name] you lose hard ready set go