Mod Error Mafia [TM2015] - Game Over

[Magua]

Vote Count 1.25

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Cabd (3): xRECKONERx, Cephrir, Iecerint
Katsuki (3): Lady Lambdadelta, TierShift, shos
shos (2): Rhinox, Katsuki
TierShift (2): T-Bone, copper223
Cephrir (1): notscience

Not Voting (2): Cabd, pirate mollie

V/LA: TierShift (April 12th), Katsuki (April 12th)

Deadline for Day 1 is Wednesday, April 15th, at 12:00 noon EDT (site time).
Countdown to deadline:

(expired on 2015-04-15 11:00:00)

Name	Change	Score
Cabd	-	49
Cephrir	-	48
copper223	-	50
Iecerint	-	50
Katsuki	-	49
Lady Lambdadelta	-	52
notscience	-	50
pirate mollie	-	50
Rhinox	-	47
shos	-	53
T-Bone	-	51
TierShift	-	49
xRECKONERx	-	52

[copper223]

@Mollie
You only have surface reads but are worried because you say my TS read is surface level? I don't know what kind of read you expect me to give D1 with a group of experienced players that are either being cagey or playing seemingly pro town and why did you call it bad then? Bad=/ worrisome /= scum indicative the last time I checked, you are also piggybacking off of Cabd's idea that my posts are shallow which I don't like, like for him to you: point to specifics.

@All
Not a fan of T-Bone's reaction to my vote on TS, if TS is town T-Bone possibly wanted to have a nice vanity wagon that went nowhere and is worried this gains traction, it could also be indicative of a bus I guess.

I have been thinking of Shos's motives and this kind of fuck you all I am going to figure out what the score does which looks scummy to most and is the main reason for his scumread is more likely to come from town in my opinion, scum has to consider if it's worth the heat to do so blatantly.

Icerint, the fact you haven't asked Mala about Mollie is noted.

[Iecerint]

Icerint, the fact you haven't asked Mala about Mollie is noted.

1. I didn't see your question; I've asked it now.

2. What on earth are you inferring to have been the scum motivation in neglecting to ask Mala about mollie?

[copper223]

1. You replied earlier that Mala hadn't given a read on Mollie in particular, so you did see the question, don't lie. I find it strange as she told me she knows Mollie's meta really well so I would expect that read from her to be a priority, I've been reading TTH for my teammates for instance as I have been playing with her a lot.

2. I am inferring you could be teammates.

[Iecerint]

1. Mollie wasn't even in the game yet when all of Mala's substantive comments about this game took place, so she obviously wouldn't be in a position to comment on her.

I suppose I did respond to it; I didn't remember it. I have no motive to lie about this as scum, so your inference that I am intentionally lying about this seems pretty weird to me. Mollie is relatively obvtown IMO.

2. This is a crappy inference for the same reason that inferring that I intentionally lied about having forgotten about you asking Mala about mollie is crappy.

[Iecerint]

Additional context here could probably clarify the chronology, but I'm not sure about how that's regulated.

I am conferring with Magua.

[copper223]

1. I said you lied, not that you lied as scum so you are the one making crappy inferences, I agree the lie was caused by not remembering about it but that is a small tell in of itself cause you are less likely to care about reading a teammate so it's something you are likelier to forget. At the time you did not say anything about Mollie just replacing in so I have no reason to take this clarification at face value now.

2. Again, like with Ceph, if you put statements in my posts from your imagination and then discredit them you don't change the contents of what I wrote, I explained above why you can infer that you and Mollie being teammates is more likely now.

[Iecerint]

1. I said you lied, not that you lied as scum

Is English your second language? Not being rude, serious question. A lie isn't the same thing as a mistake. It explicitly connotes intentionality (and scumminess).

You can confirm the timeline of Mala's comment by looking at my stuff with NotScience.

Taking it from your new/clarified intent (Iec forgot because he doesn't want to develop reads on a scumfriend), I don't really think I would be more likely to forget to ask Mala about my hypo-scumfriend if asked. That would probably stick out more and make me remember it better, if anything.

[copper223]

Yes english is not my main language, if intentionality has to be implied by definition that was not intended, the scum connection is all your own though because the two don't follow directly.

I disagree, I have often seen scum forget to interact with each other or had to prod my teammates to answer my questions as scum so that's a well established pattern I use to find scum, in this case giving a read on Mollie from soneone that can read her well if you are both scum is doubly annoying, so trying to sweep it under the rug I can also see as a viable tactic.

[Iecerint]

I agree that scum can sometimes interact awkwardly and/or not interact. That idea is kinda relevant to some of how I've thought about certain slots in this game (e.g., Reck's reference to Cabd when shos/katsuki were dominant).

IMO, that is pretty different than me and mollie this game because I have referenced her behavior multiple times (cf., my catch-up comments) and she has referenced me a few times (albeit mostly cuz NS asked her to IIRC). I am skeptical that the "ignoring-one-another" tell you're referencing applies when scum are explicitly ASKED to interact (as in the case if you asking me to ask Mala about mollie), but we can agree to disagree, I guess.

FWIW I don't have any personal insight into whether Mala reads mollie well. The only person I know of who I know has said he can read mollie well is Nacho. In the game I played with the two of them he intimidated her into making a crappy fakeclaim. I think the only game I've played with both mala and mollie was the Reckoning III invitational, and the only thing* from Mala's slot that I remember from that game is that she was I think hydra'd with Tammy, who had a total meltdown re: mollie and was grossly inappropriate. I don't even remember for certain that Mala was the other head of that hydra, though. It's the one that's named for Tammy's cat. This is relevant to the idea that I would feel awkward about asking Mala in particular.

* I now also remember that slot's very clever hypoclaim, which I later used in the game with Nacho and mollie. ^_^

[Iecerint]

I want to make sure I understand what you originally meant by "lying"

1. You replied earlier that Mala hadn't given a read on Mollie in particular, so you did see the question,

don't lie

.

To me, this reads like you are inferring intentionality on my part (like, it reads like you are scolding me for lying). Am I mistaken?

[Iecerint]

1. I didn't see your question; I've asked it now.

Thinking about this more, I think what happened is that I originally interpreted your question as a question about the status of Mala's commentary on mollie, which is how I answered it originally ("What did she say?" "She didn't say anything" vs. "Please ask her about it!" "This is what she said:").

Then you said that I never asked Mala about mollie, which confused me.

Then I looked at your iso, ctrl+f Mala, found the question without the context of my response, asked Mala, posted that I had missed it before (because your complaint that I hadn't followed-through had given it new context).

So, I "forgot" about it because I didn't interpret it as a request to ask her something originally (but instead as a "What did she say about this other thing at that time"-type question).

That's the result of my introspection as I sit waiting for MATLAB to finish running. D:

[pirate mollie]

wow

@Mollie
You only have surface reads but are worried because you say my TS read is surface level? I don't know what kind of read you expect me to give D1 with a group of experienced players that are either being cagey or playing seemingly pro town and why did you call it bad then? Bad=/ worrisome /= scum indicative the last time I checked, you are also piggybacking off of Cabd's idea that my posts are shallow which I don't like, like for him to you: point to specifics.

@All
Not a fan of T-Bone's reaction to my vote on TS, if TS is town T-Bone possibly wanted to have a nice vanity wagon that went nowhere and is worried this gains traction, it could also be indicative of a bus I guess.

I have been thinking of Shos's motives and this kind of fuck you all I am going to figure out what the score does which looks scummy to most and is the main reason for his scumread is more likely to come from town in my opinion, scum has to consider if it's worth the heat to do so blatantly.

Icerint, the fact you haven't asked Mala about Mollie is noted.

1. I only just got into the game soyeah it is kind of expected that my reads will be pretty surface at this point and time! that is why i am running around fosing anything that moves, questioning pple on their thought processes and trying to solidify reads. i have whined about how hard it is to do this since a bunch of players are being incredibly lurky cos it sort of interferes with that process!
2. can you plz tell me who you think is being cagey and who is playing protown? cos the 2 are not even subject for confusion since they are like comparing apples to camels in the sahara. like I don't even understand what your point is here. but something that I wld love from you is a readslist as to who is being cagey and who is being protown (reasons wld be fantastic but I am struggling to not be that hopeful) that way I can lock you into some reads so that you leave some kind of discernable trail and I don't have to add you to the outstanding questions from players itt pile.
3. bad = worrisome = scum indicative does not even compute. like where are you getting that from? bad/worrisome are not even remotely synonymous so i don't really understand why you wld try to piece them together in the way that you are doing. town have bad reasons for stating an opinion on the interpretation of things all of the time there is a reason the meme exists, "your reasoning is bad and you shld feel bad for having them". like my initial thought of notty's reasoning of thinking iceyrent was town cos iceyrent reads him as town was bad (he has fleshed it out a bit in a way that I liked) but notty is a very light townread like both opinions exist itt and the 2 can coexist so I am really unsure why or how they are even mutually exclusive in your mind for instance reck is worrisome but your reasons for voting tier for the reasons that you did were bad cos I was wanting a more in depth answer since you have been in the game longer than I have and so have more to work from IMO. like if I was worried about you I wld say, "copper is worrisome" not "your reasons are bad". I wldn't feel the need to mince words if I equated "worrisome" with "bad" but tbh here your whole angle here sightly worries me!
4. I didn't even see cabd's sus of you he is being utterly boring since I have joined the game but he is saying he is sick so meh. so I am not sure what "piggybacking" you are talking about unless you mean that we both are finding you being "surface" and "shallow" independently of each other's reads. I am waiting for cabd to dazzle me my vote on him was a pressure vote to get his head in the game and I wanted to support reck and see where that went but cabd is still sick so meh it went nowhere cos cabd is not really a strong presence in the game as far as I can tell.
5. the specifics are pretty easy to spot since I directly referenced your reasoning in post 735 by calling it "bad" and I quoted you.

tl;dr - your whole reasoning process is pretty tortured which makes me lean town cos it seems to come from a paranoid mindset which is "bad" but not "worrisome" since the whole basis for your argument seems to rest on the 2 being synonymous. <--- this is a "bad" argument.

[pirate mollie]

Yes english is not my main language, if intentionality has to be implied by definition that was not intended, the scum connection is all your own though because the two don't follow directly.

I disagree, I have often seen scum forget to interact with each other or had to prod my teammates to answer my questions as scum so that's a well established pattern I use to find scum, in this case giving a read on Mollie from soneone that can read her well if you are both scum is doubly annoying, so trying to sweep it under the rug I can also see as a viable tactic.

^ paranoid town, I think

[pirate mollie]

I agree that scum can sometimes interact awkwardly and/or not interact. That idea is kinda relevant to some of how I've thought about certain slots in this game (e.g., Reck's reference to Cabd when shos/katsuki were dominant).

IMO, that is pretty different than me and mollie this game because I have referenced her behavior multiple times (cf., my catch-up comments) and she has referenced me a few times (albeit mostly cuz NS asked her to IIRC). I am skeptical that the "ignoring-one-another" tell you're referencing applies when scum are explicitly ASKED to interact (as in the case if you asking me to ask Mala about mollie), but we can agree to disagree, I guess.

FWIW I don't have any personal insight into whether Mala reads mollie well. The only person I know of who I know has said he can read mollie well is Nacho. In the game I played with the two of them he intimidated her into making a crappy fakeclaim. I think the only game I've played with both mala and mollie was the Reckoning III invitational, and the only thing* from Mala's slot that I remember from that game is that she was I think hydra'd with Tammy, who had a total meltdown re: mollie and was grossly inappropriate. I don't even remember for certain that Mala was the other head of that hydra, though. It's the one that's named for Tammy's cat. This is relevant to the idea that I would feel awkward about asking Mala in particular.

* I now also remember that slot's very clever hypoclaim, which I later used in the game with Nacho and mollie. ^_^

mala was part of eaglekit (desp/mala hydra) who faked a cop guilty on me in the reckoning invitational, I think you are thinking of mina/tammy (waffles).

[copper223]

@Icerint
At the time I wrote the post I knew what you said was untrue, I did not examine whether it was deliberate or not beforehand because I thought the answer would be revealing, if asked I would have said probably unintentional depending on how likely you think I might forget about it. I think your reply is pretty thorough so I believe what you say about your thought process there.

@Mollie
You called the read on TS bad in 719 and surface level and like I am not sinking my teeth in the read in 735, those look like different concerns to me, or are you clarifying why it was bad, if so why do you think my read is bad here as town?

Seem pro town:
{Ceph, TS pre argument with T-Bone, Rhinox, Mollie, NS, Icerint and Reck when active}
These are players actively trying to make shit happen for the most part.

Cagey:
{Cabd, Katsuki, T-Bone, LLD}

weird:
{Shos}

[shos]

Is it like reck to lurk as either alignment? active lurk or something? my townread on him is starting to fade as the game progresses and he's just...not here.

@mollie - what question am I to answer..? must've missed it when drunk?

[shos]

copper, what does 'cagey' and 'weird' mean alignment wise?

I don't thinkt he mala thing stands against iecrint. this is just a mistake; the difference between a lie and an honest mistake is the intention, and I see no scum intentions here. could easily just have wrote somethng that supports their cause, if needed. But no; so I believe the mistake.

[copper223]

@Shos
In your case weird is more likely to mean town as I said cause your stubborness to setup fish the votecount information despite the heat you are getting I think is something a town that gives no fucks and is playing for himself is more likely to do rather than a scumplayers.

Cagey is not alignemnt relevant per se, I'd prefer for those players to be more active cause as is I have a problem reading them, case for case:

- Ambivalent on Cabd, as I said the read on copper seems to show genuine effort in trying to read me, on the other hand the whole sum of content from him being basically an OMGUS on town may also mean he just found a decent way to scumread me back, I need to see a readlist from Cabd, then I'll have a better idea.

- Katsuki I already explained, not the lynch for today.

- T-Bone, the reason for his push on TS is the only somewhat alignment relevant post I got from him, I can understand not liking people asking fir pressure on you without doing so themselves, on the other hand he is also OMGUSing left right and centre when his play has little to reccomend for, also as Three-Pronged-Trouser-God in the hydra they controlled the conversation a lot more but I don't know how much of that was T-Bone.

- LLD, I am not going to townread just because of her shenaningangs about being annoyed with the re-roll but many others are, she has been very mainstream with her pushes like shos, I am interested in her NS line if questioning because that is original content that should allow for a better read.

-

[shos]

Alright, legit. But, that means that, basically, you have no scumreads? at all? who are you voting? who would you lynch right now?

[shos]

You're voting TS right now - and yet he's in your 'seem pro town' list. intrigue me.

[pirate mollie]

@Icerint
At the time I wrote the post I knew what you said was untrue, I did not examine whether it was deliberate or not beforehand because I thought the answer would be revealing, if asked I would have said probably unintentional depending on how likely you think I might forget about it. I think your reply is pretty thorough so I believe what you say about your thought process there.

@Mollie
You called the read on TS bad in 719 and surface level and like I am not sinking my teeth in the read in 735, those look like different concerns to me, or are you clarifying why it was bad, if so why do you think my read is bad here as town?

Seem pro town:
{Ceph, TS pre argument with T-Bone, Rhinox, Mollie, NS, Icerint and Reck when active}
These are players actively trying to make shit happen for the most part.

Cagey:
{Cabd, Katsuki, T-Bone, LLD}

weird:
{Shos}

lets keep things in chronological order and not misrep what actually happened okay?

in post 719 I called your reasoning bad. twas in reference to the reasons you gave in post 718 in which you asked in post 722 why I thought they were bad and I clarified in post 735 as to why I thought they were bad. then I further explained in post 762 as to why I thought the reasons you gave might come from a town POV re: tortured logic. did you read that post?

glad we are clearing shit up! unfortunately you have dropped down a bit cos I am not why you are asking for details when it is evident in the last few pages.

@ shos

I asked you to cite examples of how you cld defo read tier like you claimed you cld!

cld you plz answer?

[copper223]

He seemed pro-town before he dropped off, as I wrote, and I explained why I find that drop-off potentially scum indicative together with a few other points in the post I voted him, Mollie asked me for those categories that are not directly mappable to alignment, I always seem or try to look pro town when I am scum for instance.

I have scum leans on TS, Cabd and potentially Rhinkx, I have a townread on Ceph, I am leaning town on NS, Mollie, Icerint, and Shos, I am fence-townreading Reck and T-Bone, I am nullish on LLD and Katsuki. The Rhinox read in particular is a problem because it clashes with what my other townreads are saying so I'd like to know why he is town if you are townreading him (question for everyone).

[copper223]

@Mollie
FFS the question is very easy, what do you mean with bad in 719 and superficial in 735, is that an alignment relevant statement yes or no?

By the way you wrote 735 I thought you implied bad as scum, when previously you said bad, but since you jumped on me for equating bad with scummy in your next post (which is what I thought you did) I then assumed you meant bas as town, there is no misrepping involved.

[shos]

@mollie - you're going to have to look for yourself, if you know what I mean