8:4 Vanilla Nightless [TM2015] - GAME OVER

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Post Post #1100 (ISO) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:54 am

Post by ZZZX »

Albert B. Rampage wrote:Don't rebel against me, Sonic, and zzzy. We are your town reads. Vote with us. Your team said zzzy, me and Sonic are town. All three of us are voting Nacho. What do you hope to achieve by competing against us?

I just perfer to check by my self because I can't trust anyone atm for clear reasons. But if you want me to follow using logic will convince me. Threating is an anti-town move that I don't yield to. Seeing you do it logically I might folloe you here. But I need to iso nacho one more time
Implosion: I see ZZZX was lynched. For shame, people. For shame.
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Post Post #1101 (ISO) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:55 am

Post by ZZZX »

Wait it seems I already moved to nacho a few posts back lol.
Implosion: I see ZZZX was lynched. For shame, people. For shame.
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Post Post #1102 (ISO) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:09 am

Post by wgeurts »

ZZZX, ABR is town. Don't doubt him, prove him wrong.
"
i agree we should have a rule against wgeurts
" -
Davsto

"
let's have 2 rules against wgeurts
" -
DeathRowKitty

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Post Post #1103 (ISO) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:10 am

Post by wgeurts »

(As in that we're town)
(And I think on Nacho)
"
i agree we should have a rule against wgeurts
" -
Davsto

"
let's have 2 rules against wgeurts
" -
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Post Post #1104 (ISO) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:22 am

Post by wgeurts »

If kagami flips town nacho's a possibility.
"
i agree we should have a rule against wgeurts
" -
Davsto

"
let's have 2 rules against wgeurts
" -
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Post Post #1105 (ISO) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:28 am

Post by ZZZX »

I know he is. I am just saying.
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Post Post #1106 (ISO) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:33 am

Post by ZZZX »

anyone back to nacho guys! go go go.
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Post Post #1107 (ISO) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:38 am

Post by ZZZX »

Kagami (4) -
GreyICE
,
Nachomamma8
,
Zar
,
wgeurts

Nachomamma8 (3) -
Albert B. Rampage, ZZZX, Metal Sonic
<< town block
Seraphim (1) -
Sotty7
<< idk

Not Voting (3) -
EddieFenix
,
Kagami
,
Seraphim

blue= town bloc nvr brk
green= town
red= scum
so lets make this into a list and data:
Town block:Me/Metal/ABR/ maybe wge? (gut mostly) (Stronger >> weaker)
Town: GreyIce/Eddie/maybe Zar? (Stronger >> weaker)
No clue: Sotty
Scum: Nacho/Kagami/Seraphim (most scummy>Less scummy)

At this stage I will NOT accept a town block lynch at ANY cost.
I would avoid town section lynches but I accept the possiblity that I can be wrong
anything below is free game.
Implosion: I see ZZZX was lynched. For shame, people. For shame.
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Post Post #1108 (ISO) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:40 am

Post by Nachomamma8 »

Hi, I have a laptop! I'm typing thoughts on the game as we speak: will be catching up with recent posts first, and then rereading second.
"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten

-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.
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Post Post #1109 (ISO) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:40 am

Post by ZZZX »

GreyICE wrote:
Hoopla wrote:UNVOTE:
VOTE: kagami

hehe

You're going to ask after this game "why was I lynched?"

And I'm just going to reply :facepalm:

You talk about bringing people together. The only thing this entire town is united in is the hatred of your posts.

Vote: Hoopla


You chose this. You fucking chose this. If you're town, you chose to waste a lynch. If you're scum you chose to fuck your team over.

My suspicion is you're town, but the number of fucks I give is literally zero. You are a jester, and I'll fucking yell when you green flip, but we're literally never going to get a wagon around here without you dead.

this is the post that somewhat dropped grey ice's position for me tbh
p-edit: mkay
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Post Post #1110 (ISO) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:41 am

Post by wgeurts »

Ok, here's why I'm town reading Sotty.

His first post () starts my town read on him. He's already starting to figure out the game, trying to see who's town and who's not.

Then there's the interaction with GreyICE which I believe is TvT. Although his defences are a little shoddy I believe that he's truely convinced that GreyICE is completely pushing him off "lies", much as I did when MetalSonic voted me. He's received the similar tunnel-vision type play I admit I then got after MetalSonic and is trying to show everyone ICE is completely wrong and is early on biased into thinking ICE is scum for all his upcoming posts.

Once he draws away from this in the bottom of and in the bottom half of he shoes a pretty town mindset showing thoughts on players which develop as the posts go along.

There's also the fact that he finds everyone that's voting him is scummy and opportunistic. This is something I do myself as town when I'm getting frustrated when a wagon forms on me. As when you're town you know at some point scum will join it, so you try to show the world that as you are convinced there are scum on your wagon. The problem is, people don't think you're town and therefore it makes arguing "scum are on my wagon" a really weak argument. This type of behaviour is something I'd expect from town, it doesn't really make sense as scum.
His blatant demanding explanation how GreyICE has any good points on him also fits this frustrated town view.

is a nice post of his.

And there's a little town cred that he resisted hoopla lynch, could be faked but hey.
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i agree we should have a rule against wgeurts
" -
Davsto

"
let's have 2 rules against wgeurts
" -
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Post Post #1111 (ISO) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:45 am

Post by wgeurts »

With sotty, look beyond the GreyICE trash. You'll find some pretty town stuff.
"
i agree we should have a rule against wgeurts
" -
Davsto

"
let's have 2 rules against wgeurts
" -
DeathRowKitty

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Post Post #1112 (ISO) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:45 am

Post by ZZZX »

quadz08 wrote:Hoopla (7) -
Seraphim
,
Metal sonic
,
EddieFenix
,
Kagami
,
ZZZX
,
Albert B. Rampage
,
GreyICE

Kagami (3) -
Nachomamma8
,
wgeurts
,
Hoopla

Sotty7 (1) -
Zar

Seraphim (1) -
Sotty7

I dont think all town were on hoopla's wagon but if there is scum it should be between Sera/Kagami/Eddie?/Grey? mostly the first 2
So after we get rid of scum nacho i guess we go for those 2

also is it in nacho's meta to bus?
Implosion: I see ZZZX was lynched. For shame, people. For shame.
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Post Post #1113 (ISO) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:46 am

Post by wgeurts »

A good example of the "finding people opportunistic and scummy for voting him" is when seraphim voted him.
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i agree we should have a rule against wgeurts
" -
Davsto

"
let's have 2 rules against wgeurts
" -
DeathRowKitty

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Post Post #1114 (ISO) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:46 am

Post by ZZZX »

wgeurts wrote:And there's a little town cred that he resisted hoopla lynch, could be faked but hey.

i find anyone who "resisted" that lynch mostly scummy action wise/
and anyone who just accepted it as fate scummy too.
Implosion: I see ZZZX was lynched. For shame, people. For shame.
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Post Post #1115 (ISO) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:48 am

Post by ZZZX »

You see white knighting / hard attacking easy lynches is not really uncommon for mafia esp for nightless games.

the thing is lets say someone defending me hard. it can be built of sometimes because well (I kinda am a bad player sometimes as proven by meta/It happened before with some players) but if someone randomly defended me that I clearly dont expect him to do. (like say... someone who isnt metal sonic most of the time? or someone I know enough) i would grow susp. and attack them.

thats how i find it personally.
Implosion: I see ZZZX was lynched. For shame, people. For shame.
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Post Post #1116 (ISO) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:51 am

Post by wgeurts »

Yeah, hence I said it could be faked. But Sotty has real natural reads which you can follow if you look beyond the ICE tosh.
The hoopla thing is minor.
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i agree we should have a rule against wgeurts
" -
Davsto

"
let's have 2 rules against wgeurts
" -
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Post Post #1117 (ISO) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:57 am

Post by Nachomamma8 »

Zar wrote:He really isn't fascinated by his scum block in 614 because despite he's said Seraphim is a good vote, but then called him town and said he was reviewing the thread after it, it looks more like keeping options open w/r/t Seraphim.

Seraphim seemed like a good scum pick to me for a majority of the game: the two major plays that Seraphim did that made me doubt that read a bit was the "fuck you" posts in responses to the push against him (here and here). It's been my experience in games that scum are less likely to respond to a mostly reasonable push on them with nothing but sheer aggression: the only purpose it actually accomplishes is pissing off the people pushing you even more (unless the people pushing you are really really reasonable), but when you believe your position is correct and righteous you tend you throw petty shit like "logic" out of the window. I also liked his suspicions: Hoopla seemed a strong suspicion, Sotty seemed a strong suspicion, Kagami seemed a strong suspicion. The fact he didn't vote for Kagami when the time was right lessens this towntell quite a bit, as does Hoopla's townflip.

Zar wrote:He also thought the Hoopla inclusion there while not mentioning her other than to state she liked her entrance based on play style was kind of fake, specially since Hoopla then was one of his top 2 scumreads in 620. In the end he feels conflicted about him and would like me to engage more with him as he feels he may be able to read him correctly.

When I thought I had the game pretty definitively solved, Kagami/Hoopla/Sotty were my BIG THREE and I just sort of figured that lynching any of them was good and fine and great. Everytime Hoopla posted, she ended up throwing a bit of a wrench in the BIG THREE and it's not like she had a whole lot of content to interact with, which is why I didn't comment much on her.

I like Empire prodding at those two reads because they were the two reads that I probably fleshed out the least yesterday. I'd still like to see more posts coming out of your slot and more interactions with you since that's the only way in hell I'll be able to read you, but this post does make me feel better about your slot.

Sotty7 wrote:
Nachomamma8 wrote:Kagami has a town read on Seraphim. Seraphim refused to compromise on Kagami yesterday. I'd like to lynch both of them. I don't understand why you're voting me when I'm your least preferred of the three options but also pushing them and probably not scum with them.

Why did you pick Kagami over Seraphim to lynch first?

Seraphim was the weakest of my scumreads thanks to the two things I outlined above.

EddieFenix wrote:@ABR and MS, got Mollie on my team reading Nacho as town. I'll see if I can get an update on that read from her. Oiiiiii. Been a long couple of days with college. Comin back a bit this weekend full force for sure.

I'm pretty sure she has more to say than that!
"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten

-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.
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Post Post #1118 (ISO) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:10 am

Post by Nachomamma8 »

Albert B. Rampage wrote:It's our scumread on Nacho that is strong.

Titus believes that he's aiming to be the most credible person rather than finding scum. The theory spec, the sudden unnatural confidence in Kagami scum, how he's not harassing anyone like his town self. I was also recently scum with Nacho. He always seems reasonable, and here, I think that I found the chink in the armor.

What theory spec have I provided to the game that makes it seem like I'm trying to be a credible person as opposed to finding scum? The theory speculation I remember providing is not really that excessive at all, I remember we should try to keep post counts low for the benefit in the game early, and I remember... maybe agreeing with some of Hoopla's comments? I'm a player that's very focused in on the dynamics of the game, so I comment on the dynamics of the game. This is about as scummy as Titus commenting on VCA early game: some of us scumhunt using unique or lesser used techniques, and bringing them up even though they are not straightforward/classic methods of scumhunting isn't scummy at all.

I'm not... harassing everyone? I'm not walling the shit out of anyone because this is the first time I've touched a laptop in about a month? or so. I've also been busy for life, pushing for a promotion, all that good shit. Despite that, I have scumhunted, I've read the game, I've commented on play, and I've harassed people where possible.

Let's compare that game to this one, shall we? Where did I demonstrate unreasonable confidence in anyone during Pick Your Poison? Contrast this with Curse of the Werewolves, where you played Nacho-town who had a pretty unnatural and complete turn around on mollie-slot (aka your scumbud) D2. That strong confidence I have when I believed I've sold the gamestate or found a portion of the game is how I push lynches, just like how you push lynches: do you think you got a wagon on me because your case was good, or because you found something fantastically special? No, you got a wagon on me because you have an unnatural confidence that certain people (SONIC) believe in.

Albert B. Rampage wrote:
GreyICE wrote:Zar? Sotty? Seraphim? Kagami?

That's off the top of my head people that Nacho has pushed and prodded at.


That's why I'm more suspicious of Nacho than Kagami. It's always harder to cut against the grain.

When Kagami started out the game, she wasn't cutting against the grain. She was cutting against GreyICE.
It's also not always the proper move to cut against the grain: sometimes, the tide is leaning a certain way for a reason and bucking against it for absolutely no idea isn't exactly the best play.

Albert B. Rampage wrote:I'm sure that Nacho is scum. He's participating elsewhere and avoiding this game, rationing his presence like if he said too much he might get suspected. That and the totally unnatural reversal on Kagami.

What reversal on Kagami are you talking about, exactly?

I'm not really able to post in every game every day, which means I end up focusing on some games some days and other games other games. I'm in a lot of games again. I always play on mobile. It's not exactly a cakewalk keeping up and posting in everything every time, and I'd rather be inconsistent and get in good posts occasionally as opposed to consistently posting underwhelming shit, but maybe you feel differently?

Albert B. Rampage wrote:You, me, and zzzy are the most widely townread players in the game. The fact that all of us are voting for Nacho carries a lot of weight.

Sure does!
That does not make it correct!
"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten

-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.
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Post Post #1119 (ISO) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:12 am

Post by Nachomamma8 »

And since VCA is actually god in this game, let's look at some votes!
{Metal Sonic, ABR, wgeurts, ZZZX} is our town block. Hoopla is flipped town. Votecounts are numbered to make commentary on them easier.

Spoiler: end of day votecounts
#1
quadz08 wrote:Sotty7 (3) - GreyICE,
Metal Sonic
,
Albert B. Rampage

Metal Sonic
(3) - Zar, Seraphim,
wgeurts

Kagami (3) - Nachomamma8,
Hoopla
,
ZZZX

GreyICE (2) - Sotty7, EddieFenix


#2
quadz08 wrote:Sotty7 (3) - Nachomamma8,
Albert B. Rampage,
GreyICE
EddieFenix (2) -
Hoopla
,
wgeurts

Seraphim (2) -
Metal Sonic
, Sotty7


#3
quadz08 wrote:Sotty7 (3) - Nachomamma8,
Albert B. Rampage,
GreyICE
Seraphim (2) -
Metal Sonic,
Sotty7
Kagami (2) -
wgeurts,
ZZZX

GreyICE (2) - EddieFenix, Kagami


#4
quadz08 wrote:Seraphim (4) -
Metal Sonic,
Sotty7,
Albert B. Rampage,
GreyICE
Kagami (3) -
wgeurts, ZZZX,
Nachomamma8
GreyICE (2) - EddieFenix, Kagami


#5
quadz08 wrote:Seraphim (3) -
Metal Sonic,
Sotty7, GreyICE
Kagami (3) -
wgeurts, ZZZX,
Nachomamma8
GreyICE (2) - EddieFenix, Kagami


#6
quadz08 wrote:Kagami (3) -
wgeurts, ZZZX,
Nachomamma8
GreyICE (2) - EddieFenix, Kagami
Sotty7 (2) -
Albert B. Rampage,
GreyICE
Hoopla (2) - Seraphim,
Metal Sonic


#7
quadz08 wrote:Kagami (4) -
ZZZX,
Nachomamma8, GreyICE,
wgeurts

Hoopla
(4) - Seraphim,
Metal Sonic
, EddieFenix, Kagami


#8
quadz08 wrote:
Hoopla
(7) - Seraphim,
Metal Sonic,
EddieFenix, Kagami,
ZZZX, Albert B. Rampage,
GreyICE
Kagami (3) - Nachomamma8,
wgeurts, Hoopla


My personal conclusions:

1) The way the Hoopla wagon actually formed is very, very important to me, namely the transition between #6 and #7. The Kagami wagon had existed at three strong for quite a while with two townblock members on it: if scum wanted to make a play on it, they most certainly could have unless there were already two scum members on the wagon (a chance that drops to pretty much nothing if I'm confirmed as town, so keep this in mind if ABR charisma lynches me). Then Kagami hits 4, and immediately, Hoopla counter wagon forms as the GreyICE wagon magically decides to compromise on Hoopla. This creates the only wagon with three non townblock members on it, which hasn't existed at all up to this point, which is important because I don't think scum are going to block vote until they are forced to: it's stupid to operate as a perfect unit the entire game, but it's important to come together when you need it.

2) Despite Seraphim's lip service to Kagami and Sotty wagons (IIRC), he only ended up on Hoopla and Metal Sonic wagons.

3) Zar ending up in the "Not Voting" pile sucks and is really garbage, but it also seems a pretty horrible play if he's scum, considering the whole strength in numbers thing.

4) People 2 or more townblock members ended up voting before the lynch:
-Sotty
-Kagami
-Seraphim
-EddieFenix

This is coincidentally my top choice for a scumteam at the moment, except I'm gonna need a lot a lot more interaction with Zar and EddieFenix to confirm this is the case. I'm having some really serious difficulty seeing GreyICE as scum (and townread has been confirmed by Llamarble several times), and, if I'm lynched, I fully fully expect full control to be handed over to him: we are only likely to have room for one lone wolf if I'm dead today (which will invariably be ABR): if you are town and you don't listen to GreyICE if I am mislynched this game, you are the reason that the town lost.
"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten

-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.
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Post Post #1120 (ISO) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:31 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

TL;DR version: Nacho is scum. Vote him.
Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards.
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Post Post #1121 (ISO) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:56 am

Post by Nachomamma8 »

Did you miss the change in atmosphere or something? It's going to take a hell of a lot more than shitty rhetoric to get me mislynched now.
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Post Post #1122 (ISO) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:02 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Sonic and I agree. You are scum. End of discussion.
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Post Post #1123 (ISO) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:03 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

My team and I are absolutely convinced you are scum. That's a lot of people that have made up their mind about you.
Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards.
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Albert B. Rampage
Albert B. Rampage
Illogical Rampage
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Albert B. Rampage
Illogical Rampage
Illogical Rampage
Posts: 27261
Joined: April 8, 2007
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico

Post Post #1124 (ISO) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:06 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

I'm not changing my vote today. You guys come up with all the cases and theory in the world as you please, from this moment on, this game is on pause for me until Nacho is lynched.
Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards.
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