Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Titus]

Pick a read and go afyer it.

[Cheetory6]

I mean, I'm voting for Esp right now.
Are you convinced that his obtuseness is fake? Do you have experience with Espeon as either town or scum?

[Titus]

Sure enough to wagon D1 which means I don't have a solid tiwnread.

I want to reasses Espy after ongoing for the latter.

[Gammagooey]

hey cheet, why are you still voting esp? the tone of your posts seems to suggest that you're at least not particularly confident in him faking the obtuseness as scum.

Leading the player..ewww

You're more or less right in that I'm only kind of scumreading Esp after this last exchange. I just don't really know who I'd want to vote for right now alternatively.
I have a bunch of slight scumreads, and if I felt particularly strongly about someone else I'd probably switch, but as of right now it'd just be kind of a vanity vote which I'm not really a huge fan of outside of RVS.

haters gon' hate

[Titus]

Ok. I think you didn't understand my objection Gamma as Cheetory's response doesn't help.

I will watch for more of the same.

How confident are you in Espy town?

[Gammagooey]

^Treating everything as a trap for scum waiting to be sprung isn't actually beneficial if you want to just get more information on why people are thinking what they are.

and about espy I'm confident enough to push for him not getting lynched today.

[Titus]

@Gamma, Why are you confident about Espy town?

I'm still scumhunting even while coordinating. Your question didn't try to obtain information from Cheetory, it practically forcefed him the answer.

[Gammagooey]

^just read my iso, I literally just went over it with cheetory.

and yeah it did, it's just why he feels the way he does instead of how he feels.

[DragonQueen]

@Gamma, And you know his reasons why are genuine because??

[Titus]

@Gamma, And you know his reasons why are genuine because??

Mine.

[Titus]

Espy sounding smooth is actually more of a problem to me.

[Espeonage]

wat can i do

[Titus]

@Espy, Do you seriously expect me to answer that?

Be townie.

[Espeonage]

Living on the edge.

[Gammagooey]

@Titus:

@cheet-Mostly gut but the way he responded to people when Tammy was a boon possibility feels pretty likely to be town thoughts and motivation to me

Just because of the timing of it and going against the grain of all of the townreads on Tammy sort of dealio? Or something more subtle than that?

his comments regarding tammy's boon feel purposeful and like he's trying to affect the game for the better in a way that I think makes more sense coming from town than scum.

like I went into about as much detail as I can explain here, already said it's mostly a gut read.

[Titus]

@Gamma, then why are you standing in the way of a wagon, if it's all a "gut" read. We need wagons with reasons right now, and if you're wrong, you can tear the reasons to shreads.

[Gammagooey]

gut read doesn't mean particularly weak read.

it means a read based on the tone of how he's been posting and the way I think he's been playing, and how I think that matches up with a town mindset. If you want to disagree with those specific posts I'm talking about coming from a town mindset then go look them up and tell me why you think I'm wrong about them, otherwise we're probably just not going to see eye-to-eye for approximately the millionth time and I'll be happy hoping that what I've said about him will convince other people of it instead of cluttering up the thread talking to you for another 10 posts.

Also I legitimately have no idea what you're talking about with 'tearing reasons to shreds'.

[Titus]

@Gamma, You can't really disagree or argue gut. I just think you're gut read is too strong for not being able to articulate it.

*I meant to say if we're wrong, you can actually provide reasons as to why.

It just looks like to me you're just standing in the way of any reason based analysis.

[Untrod Tripod]

holy shit guys

holy shit we have nothing to go on

can we just lynch someone bad and move on

[Espeonage]

I defy reasoning. I am that mighty.

[Titus]

holy shit guys

holy shit we have nothing to go on

can we just lynch someone bad and move on

Really? Nothing.

We had enough to bane and boon.

Why can't we just cooperate? *bats eyes*

[Marquis]

@Singer,

I started that wagon on TTH with the intent of dragging him back into the game and getting involved. I'm not a big fan of actually lynching him. I'd rather focus on getting stable townreads and lynch whoever isn't actually in said group. Then we can take what we learned. I don't think much would be learned from lynching TTH. Lynching someone people are actually pushing as scum seems to be a better idea.

We also have two lynches today if we fit them both in by the day deadline.

oh

so you're one of those people too

before we potentially get into a discussion i don't want to make last any more than 1 post

please tell me why tth is not someone who "people are actually pushing as scum"

because this is a very clearcut statement and i want to know how far i can try and think about titus things before i get any repeats

also fun fact i just found out it's double day? i get townpoints for that right

No, no townpoints for you. And the bluster doesn't get you any either.

There's two ways you can interpret vezok's results on me. You can either think I'm a town special that wants to use my role on DV or you can think I'm scum gathering intel for a kill / some other nefarious purpose. You have a distinct and very clearly stated "not town" read on DeasVail himself, so the former conclusion should come much more naturally to you. Yet, you don't unvote and you actually go so far as to subtly push me to claim more information. Both these are scum motivated and completely inconsistent with your read on DV.

You are scum, sir.

are you kidding me

[Bulbazak]

Tth ia scum because anti replaced out of here.

Um...no.

@Bulb...let's not pretend TTH didn't heavily imply that it was a proveable role. I can't tell if you're confbiasing me by reading into that, white knighting the shit out of TTH, or just really trying to defend someone...

Was there a question hidden in there? I just don't like the way you're pushing against that slot. It started as "let's lynch him for information" and now it's down to the argument of "well, he can't

prove

that he's something useful, so we should lynch him anyway.". Both arguments ignore any real cases on the slot of why it might be scum and instead focus on just pushing through a lynch. That's what I find unnerving and unnatural, and I remember playing with town you and that not being the case.

-You would know that Titus is town, but that doesn't stop you from believing that the posts she was making SHOULD make her likely or clearly town based on what you legitimately believes looks like or are towntells in her play. I definitely try to match up a lot of my reads as scum to what I think I'd actually say and believe as town and I think that most not-brand-new players do the same thing.

I thought we were talking about Mastin. That's a pretty big jump if so, so the argument that I could have made the same logical leap as scum is inconsistent, because it was quite a leap and would have been predicated off of foreknowledge and not conjecture.

-Saying that my entire read is based on your vote on me is not only a godamn WORTHLESS combination of only seeing what's convenient for you to see and an attempt to discredit my read on you, it's also clearly not true considering that I've been scumreading you since FAR before your vote on me and have been posting about it since pretty early on in minor day 1.

True or false. Your scum read of me materialized after my disagreement with DV. If false, explain where it materialized and why that is scummy. If true, explain why I would pick a fight with a universal townread as scum, since that seems pretty counterintuitive to me.

-I see you attacking Marquis for his reaction to you and you commenting on the big posters and players of the game, and then voting Aronis of the wonder-lurker posse instead of making a stand on any of them. What I don't see is any commitment to pushing on a scum-read that might put you in danger of being widely disagreed with or you having any visible likely-town thought processes that are resulting in any of your reads here.

Again, if you don't think I'm making a stand, then you're not reading the game. Heck, the whole reason why I voted Aronis was because I said he was a good vote regardless, and I stand by that. I'm still mulling through things, and I haven't seen anything to make me want to abandon that vote as of yet (although being sheeped by Vezok is unnerving me a bit).

Actually, while you're at it, can you please come at me with something more substantial, because this just feels vague. What are you having a problem with specifically?

We need to get a wagon going based on more than pressure. Please.

You could always join me on the Aronis wagon. It's not pressure, just policy and a likely scum lynch. Or we could change things up and vote UT.

P-edit: Actually, changed my mind.

Unvote

Vote Marquis

[Marquis]

ok so 1) my dv read is nowhere close to a "distinct and very clearly stated 'not town' read"; i have dv as town, but kind of warily because of how strong my townread on him was when he was sk last game, but i do expect this kind of play from him as town so i'm pretty much holding him up there because there's no point in doubting that this early. and i'm pretty sure i've repeatedly said this at least like 5 different times today and yesterday.

2) even if i

was

scumreading dv i'm not an idiot. unlike ~certain other players~ i'm able to recognize that just because i have a scumread on a player it doesn't mean the rest of the game does/has to agree with me. even if i was scumreading dv i'm not fucking blind, throughout the whole game he's been pretty much a universal townread. you're calling on some sort of nonexistent contradiction to misrep my opinions the other way around and discredit me and it's complete and utter bs

[singersigner]

Hi I'm back for a while, and this post by Shadoweh caught my eye. It's the same thing she did recently where she says something that resembles a stance, but doesn't actually commit to it. It's like she's waiting for it to gain traction first.

Now, I'm the first to admit that I'm very uncomfortable with my reads sometimes, but if it becomes a habit throughout the day (which from the post I linked, to most recently, seems to be), then it's indicative of another problem.

@Titus...did you still want to address any of my previous statements or my question about your motivation for pressure-voting TTH but no one else?

Preview Edit:
@Bulb...you're right! I don't really see any strong cases for anyone being scum right now. UT actually said it the best: it's day one and we have hardly anything to go on. We have no assumptions of interactions or motivations because *surprise* there's no flip to work with! There are only a few mild soft-claims with regards to Minor Night One actions, and that's about it. As far as I can tell, everyone has just put out the ~feels~ or the ~bad vibes~ based on 40 people trying to play one game at a time, which guarantees dissonance.

To be honest, Gamma has been the only one to articulate anything substantial since I joined and I actually really like what he has to say based on my most recent interactions with you. Reminds me of when you were an SE in that one game with the newbies and things like such as.

Also @Titus...do you typically drunk post in games, particularly on demand or as a specific alignment?