8:4 Vanilla Nightless [TM2015] - GAME OVER

[Nachomamma8]

ok

[quadz08]

Votecount 2.5

Kagami (4) - GreyICE, Nachomamma8, Zar, wgeurts
Nachomamma8 (3) - Albert B. Rampage, ZZZX, Metal Sonic
Seraphim (1) - Sotty7

Not Voting (3) - EddieFenix, Kagami, Seraphim

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

GreyICE is V/LA through 4/11.

Deadline is 4/18 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-18 18:00:00).[/color][/b]

[Kagami]

back.

[Metal Sonic]

Many posts will destroy

[Metal Sonic]

Eh nacho a warning. If I successfully destroy #1129 and other of your recent walls you are going down the hatchet


I just woke up so blehh

[Metal Sonic]

I think that an appropriate analogy for the current situation is:


"Your town credit has expired."

Like you're going at it worse than Zar. At least for day 1

[Metal Sonic]

Sonic and I agree. You are scum. End of discussion.

Correction: I was ambivalent. Abr was absolutely convinced.

I place vote to support the cause + GreyICE is away

[Kagami]

This ended up longer than I thought it would be. =\

Spoiler: wall

Cabd asked me if I wanted to replace when the game was about 10 pages in, I did a very quick skim-through, then accepted the replacement. On my initial read, it looked like hoopla-GI was a thing, and yes, I was biased against hoopla initially because he had a bad vote on SW.

I didn't like several minor points on GI initially, one of the biggest points being the town-blocking business. His opening in the game is essentially dumping on sotty a lot, and then throwing some townreads out in 261. In addition to wqierts, ABR, nacho, ZZZX for town, there was my wagon, which seemed like a stealthy way of adding Hoopla to the list. A few posts later he explicitly adds hoopla, for evidently a completely different reason.

I asked him about the hoopla thing later. He gives a rubbish response, when there were multiple reasonable responses he could have given, and ultimately ditched the townread before the day is over. So yeah, I found that pretty damning.

Then there was the theory discussion. That's a separate post from me that I'll make next. Short story is that Hoopla's vengeful suggestion was good, townblocking is reasonable after there's a scumflip, and that townblocking early is the optimal scum strategy.

Game continues, GI jumps on eddie for chainsawing. People go back to sotty. I suggest that we start vengeful day one, which is by far the best way to get to GI, since it looks like sotty would declare a venge on him, and I know that lynching GI is going to be like pulling teeth otherwise. Obviously, I don't expect people to actually go along with it, but I thought it might yield some reaction.

Seraphim is the one who intercepts, asks for why, and I oblige. This is where scum-seraphim votes kagami; it's a perfect alternative wagon for divided votes that ensures town lynches stay in the lead. I don't think I had votes at the time, but had plenty of negative sentiment, which is the juciest jump of all. He doesn't, and I see no scum motivation to change direction on GI regardless of grey's alignment. (I didn't really think of it in such depth initially, but it's worth being out there)

Rest of the day, you're largely correct that my opinion wasn't getting changed. I don't like any of the rest of GI's behavior. GI jumping on seraphim was bad. GI explicitly says that vengeful is pro-town (but not kagami's weak-sauce stuff) was bad. A lot of his argument is in dismissing what I'm saying as "throwing everything at him," while accusing me of the silliest things like the reads-list reordering.

The tl;dr is that yes, it's accurate to say that my greyICE read didn't really evolve, but was there something that you think should have changed it? I call him out for his rubbish, and he mostly ignores it or says that it's terrible. I don't understand why I should be expected to change my mind here. Sure, I can think of semi-viable scumsets that doesn't include GI, but those all seem very improbable.

The only interesting thing that has happened to influence my GI read is the hoopla flip, which destroys the hoopla-GI theory. That doesn't change the fact that GI's play has been independently scummy, and he's the most viable lynch of the players I actually think are scum with reasonable confidence.

[GreyICE]

Alright, I'm going to try to get back into this. The above made me shit my pants laughing though. Let me highlight it for those who missed it.

Now, point by point so a certain someone can't say I'm ignoring him:

1) His opening in the game is essentially dumping on sotty a lot, and then throwing some townreads out in 261. In addition to wqierts, ABR, nacho, ZZZX for town, there was my wagon, which seemed like a stealthy way of adding Hoopla to the list. A few posts later he explicitly adds hoopla, for evidently a completely different reason. I asked him about the hoopla thing later. He gives a rubbish response, when there were multiple reasonable responses he could have given, and ultimately ditched the townread before the day is over. So yeah, I found that pretty damning.

My opening to the game was indeed to push a player that I thought had a high probability of being scum based on game mechanics. And Kagami approves of that approach.

"The best point [GreyICE] makes is the token thing"

is a direct quote from Kagami. So by all evidence he should approve of this approach. The other point here is that I was apparently stealthily adding

Hoopla

to the town block. I won't even comment on how dead that is, except it comes up later. So lets note it here.

2) Seraphim is the one who intercepts, asks for why, and I oblige. This is where scum-seraphim votes kagami; it's a perfect alternative wagon for divided votes that ensures town lynches stay in the lead. I don't think I had votes at the time, but had plenty of negative sentiment, which is the juciest jump of all. He doesn't, and I see no scum motivation to change direction on GI regardless of grey's alignment. (I didn't really think of it in such depth initially, but it's worth being out there)

Seraphim strongly scum. Interesting given what's coming up in a bit.

3) Rest of the day, you're largely correct that my opinion wasn't getting changed. I don't like any of the rest of GI's behavior.

GI jumping on seraphim was bad.

GI explicitly says that vengeful is pro-town (but not kagami's weak-sauce stuff) was bad. A lot of his argument is in dismissing what I'm saying as "throwing everything at him,"

Catch that? Me jumping on scum-Seraphim is bad. And is more likely to make me scum. With Seraphim.

while accusing me of the silliest things like the reads-list reordering.

Remember the reads list, friends? This reads list? Lets fucking quote it:

Scum

GreyICE (TBD)
Hoopla (Confectionery Animals)

Zar Empire (The Westeros Circlejerk)
wgeurts (Young and Beautiful)
Metal Sonic (team nocaps)
Nachomamma8 (Gestalt)
ZZZX (TEAM WITH NO NAME)

EddieFenix (The Leftovers)
Seraphim (The Unviggable Vegetables)
Sotty7 (The Kliq)
Albert B. Rampage (Blue, Meth, Blade and Associates)

Town

Kagami is literally just dodging this.

But lets be clear, ABR, scum need three mislynches. Wanna see them?

Seraphim is the one who intercepts, asks for why, and I oblige.

This is where scum-seraphim votes kagami; it's a perfect alternative wagon for divided votes that ensures town lynches stay in the lead.

...

GI jumping on seraphim was bad.

Nachomamma8 (3) - Albert B. Rampage, ZZZX, Metal Sonic
Seraphim (1) - Sotty7

And moi.

You really think that Kagami is honestly reading the game and believes that Seraphim is scum and that I am scummy for jumping on Seraphim? Nah. That's not an actual read given by a townie trying to figure out the game. Kagami quickly ISOed me to try and explain all the "scummy" things he did, and forgot his "scumread" on Seraphim.

[GreyICE]

Lets see, lemme review.

- ABR has a scum list with at max two scum on it. Max
- Wguerts making sense. Don't agree on Sotty, but c'est la vie
- Eddie literally waiting like a vulture to be "convinced" due to previous stances, because this is like Christmas.
- Nacho is definitely town
- Zar is making wallposts. Make sense though.

Has anyone noticed the lack of stance Sotty has taken on her good friend Nacho? Which is to say they've played a TON together, and she's literally said nothing.

Seraphim is living up to his name. Which is to say he has to be in heaven, because there's no earthly explanation for his lack of posting. Quadz, mind prodding him again? He hasn't posted since before I started my VLA

[Kagami]

2) Seraphim is the one who intercepts, asks for why, and I oblige. This is where scum-seraphim votes kagami; it's a perfect alternative wagon for divided votes that ensures town lynches stay in the lead. I don't think I had votes at the time, but had plenty of negative sentiment, which is the juciest jump of all. He doesn't, and I see no scum motivation to change direction on GI regardless of grey's alignment. (I didn't really think of it in such depth initially, but it's worth being out there)

Seraphim strongly scum. Interesting given what's coming up in a bit.

You have to be doing this on purpose and I don't understand the motivation as either alignment. Do you think you're not going to get called on it?

[GreyICE]

Hey Kagami:

- Why is Seraphim scum, but I am scummy for jumping on Seraphim?
- How do you explain your reads list?

Can you answer?

[Kagami]

Read the post.

[Kagami]

Or just look at your (2) again. I'm not saying that seraphim is scum in that paragraph.

[GreyICE]

You know I actually line-by-line responded to you just to cut out the whining that I "only respond to weak points". And here we are.

Why does anyone think Kagami is town? Because "meta" says he'd be playing better than this?

Pedit:

This is where scum-seraphim votes kagami;

Do explain, Kagami. Do explain. Perhaps I have not grasped your genius, what convoluted explanation is there for how Seraphim is actually one of your town reads?

[Kagami]

did seraphim vote kagami?

[Metal Sonic]

oh hi you're back

[GreyICE]

Yes.

Unvote
Vote: Kagami

My vote should be here, it didn't registered for whatever reason.

I don't have one fucking clue what you're talking about at this point.

[Kagami]

That was back at 291 and can't possibly be confused as a vote associated with

"Seraphim is the one who intercepts, asks for why, and I oblige. This is where scum-seraphim votes kagami; it's a perfect alternative wagon for divided votes that ensures town lynches stay in the lead. I don't think I had votes at the time, but had plenty of negative sentiment, which is the juciest jump of all. He doesn't, and I see no scum motivation to change direction on GI regardless of grey's alignment. (I didn't really think of it in such depth initially, but it's worth being out there)"

This is a paragraph about seraphim being town. Not scum.

[GreyICE]

I... what?

Is English your first language?

[Kagami]

294*

[GreyICE]

No, that doesn't help...

[Kagami]

I... what?

Is English your first language?

Let's clarify it a bit, though I struggle to think of how else you could have interpreted this. It looks like you just read to the semicolon.

Seraphim is the one who intercepts, asks for why, and I oblige. This is where scum-seraphim

would vote

kagami; it's a perfect alternative wagon for divided votes that ensures town lynches stay in the lead. I don't think I had votes at the time, but had plenty of negative sentiment, which is the juciest jump of all. He doesn't VOTE: , and I see no scum motivation to change direction on GI regardless of grey's alignment. (I didn't really think of it in such depth initially, but it's worth being out there)

[Kagami]

I guess it's a little convoluted, but I was typing as thinking.

[GreyICE]

Okay, so basically... Seraphim is town for voting Hoopla, and for not trying to lynch you. Even you admit that's a backfill reason that you thought out right now, although apparently it was "in your subconscious" or something like that when you were copy-pasting that reads list.

I suppose that now explains Seraphim and Sotty. Oh and Hoopla was scum because I was scum with Hoopla. Right. Well, that's three names on that list. Great explanations too. Planning to circle around to the rest later?

Oh and I had an odd thought since you reminded me. Cabd's title is "Every Breath You Take" because he reads like... every game on site. He's famous for knowing the metas of even obscure people who have played in only a handful of games. Given that, and given that your entire game revolves around me, how is it that it takes NACHO to tell you basic facts about things I find scummy?