Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Aronis]

A pagetop!

[hitogoroshi]

VC 48 (Major Day 1, VC 11)

(3)

Espeonage:

mastin2, ChannelDelibird, Cheetory6 [L-7]
(2)

TellTaleHeart:

Tammy, Marquis
(2)

Marquis:

TellTaleHeart, Espeonage
(2)

ChannelDelibird:

Bulbazak, Titus
(1)

Bulbazak:

Gammagooey
(1)

Aronis:

vezokpiraka

(8)

Not Voting:

Actiondan, DeasVail, GuyinFreezer, Shadoweh, T S O, Untrod Tripod, Aronis, singersigner

With 19 votes in play, it takes 10 to lynch. Deadline is Saturday, April 25th, at 9PM CST.

Major Day One Deadline

(expired on 2015-04-25 20:00:00)

Tammy is V/LA until April 20th. CDB is V/LA until April 17th. T S O is V/LA until April 17th.

[Espeonage]

You were being pretty widely townread, wanted to get us something good.

What did you expect? This makes no sense. What did you think would happen if you detected cheetory?

been over this. I thought something good happened if you guessed correctly and something bad happened if you guessed wrong.

Why did you choose a universal town read to detect if you thought there was a possibility of something bad happening if you misguessed?

Because it would probs happen to me.

[Shadoweh]

Well...ok...not really sure where you're going with this post but let me see if I can parse it out...
1. What question?
2. I do not have Titus is my scum reads because I felt like there was too much clouding my judgement that I wanted to sus out first. She was also the only one to really engage with me consistently at the time I was reading last night, so I would think that's why it looks like there's a lot of attention there, wouldn't you? Unfortunately, Mastina is gone on the weekends and hasn't been back to respond to my posts.
3. Let me be clear...I will 100% support a lynch on you when I'm done reading up on the game. I don't need to "see if there's support" for it. If there's none, there's none, but I'm not hiding behind a thinly-veiled wall of "well what do

you

think we should do..." which can also be interpreted as buddying.
4. Um, well, I tend to let people stroke my ego so when someone disagrees with my alignment through no fault of my own, I tend to think they're scummy for it!

1- I asked you a pretty simple question in my first post, why would Titus pressure vote vezok, the person everyone, including Titus, voted to be Booned? I also implied you threw his name in there because you were half-assing the shit you were throwing at Titus. You know, just spelling it out for you.
2 - 'looks like there's a lot of attention there'?

You're also going to have to explain "mean Titus" to me, since I don't recall ever actually playing in any games with you, and as far as I can tell, nothing in the last page should've been provoking enough to warrant any sort of aggressive response.

@Titus...do you often rely on your inflated sense of authority to control the direction of the game? This is the third time you've done so since I joined, while at the beginning of the game you claimed to not want to do so. Not gunna lie, it vaguely reads as scum who's losing control and is trying to bully people into "the right way."

There's a saying that the more content a person puts out, the more there is to pick at to make them look scummy. That's what your exchanges with Titus looked like, a steady progression of picking at inane things to call her scum. Things like wanting to get her own way and getting more frustrated with disagreements. This is the first time I've ever seen it painted as a scumtell. Since you've had time to 'suss it out' do you disagree with your past crazy obviously didn't read anything in the game self?

3 - I buddy all the time. You might not know that since we've never played together. I'd say to ask Empire but :V I'm not really a confident person to be honest. Proposing to do something no one else agrees with makes my stomach turn and I start to see colors. On top of it being pointless when there are so many dissonant opinions. In the early game it's my belief that people should be doing their best to work together and sorting out the fallout of that afterwards. This is all game theory stuff so etc. My alignment is immaculate and pure, and I'm pretty sure despite how I'm in the bottom pools of a few people's We Forgot Shadoweh Was In This Game's lists that you cannot flip me today.

4 - I'm pretty sure this was a joke. Marquis just quit this gimmick, don't pick it up for him.

[Aronis]

VOTE: singersigner

I just didn't feel like her scumreads were legit or genuine and after reading Shadoweh's last post it solidified what I was thinking.

[singersigner]

1. Ah, that. Well, I did say I put everyone who had less than 50 posts on that list. I felt the only one who wasn't explained very well was Mastina, but then the clarification was sufficient enough for me.
2. I don't understand your last sentence, but I think you can appropriately infer by my stronger scum reads that I'm not interested in lynching Titus. I am in uncharted territory with many of you, so I'm really confused by your reaction to my testing the waters with Titus. That being said, somewhere on page 30 or 31 she mentions again how she doesn't want to be relied on, so it'd be nice if you could explain where exactly I'm out of line in saying she seems to think people have some sort of dependency on her.
3. Um, ok. Well, it's not like I have some crazy way of making people see the light, but I can say what I can to direct them towards where I think the light is. It's true, by the end of my read, when I've said my peace, I might not be convincing enough with my ultimate preference. I think it would be foolish and anti-town not to express those thoughts anyway.
4. Not that this is going to help from your perspective, but the last game I played (with Ffery), I admitted I dropped suspicion on people who were willing to trust my alignment, which ultimately stemmed from a couple of previous games I was disappointed by my near-sightedness. It's not a gimmick and I'm not really sure how it relates to Marquis yet.

[singersigner]

VOTE: singersigner

I just didn't feel like her scumreads were legit or genuine and after reading Shadoweh's last post it solidified what I was thinking.

Not legit scumreads?!?

Lol.

Walk me through this. What about my reads are disingenuious?

Who do you think is scum (ignore your current vote on me for a hot second)?

[singersigner]

@Ffery...Regfan would like me to remind you to clarify your town read on Titus.

He would also like me to pass along his reads list...I'm not really sure how to do that without actually C/Ping it, so...

Let's just say that these reads more or less go in descending order of towniness:

Vezok ***
DV ***
Cheer ***
[Gap]
TSO ***
Tammy ***
[Gap]
Aronis
Bulb
GIF *
Marquis *
Esp.

Titus *
Mastin
UT *
CDB ***
Gamma *

AD
[Gap]
TTH
Shadoweh ***

[Gap] = a significant difference between the strength of those reads
bolded = conflicted/null reads of no particular order
* = how strongly I personally agree with both the read and the placement of the read

[singersigner]

Also, Ffery/Tammy, could you comment particularly on those in bold?

[Shadoweh]

1 - I don't think you said what the standard was in-thread. It does legitimately explain why you did that, as much as it disgusts me.
2 - It's me saying I don't think you're trying. Why are you not interested in lynching Titus when you keep bringing up reasons you think she's doing scummy things? That's what I'm pressing you on. If you don't think she's scum it shouldn't matter to you if she thinks people are dependent on her, or that she doesn't want to be in charge. There is nothing scummy about that.
4 - The unnecessary exclamation to make it sound more exciting. That sounds like a bad habit that you should stop.

Ugh. I kind of feel like this is going nowhere. None of this looks like case-making material. This day phase is also slowly going nowhere, without TTH's momentum apparently the city died. Even if he's not going to be here to reply, I'm going to add to my number one dude's wagon and post a fuller list of reasons tomorrow. The most notable of them of course being he forgot about his scumread on me </3 Though it's a serious reason. I expected at least to know whether he got over it one way or the other, but it just dropped away without comment.

VOTE: ChannelDeliBird

[mastin2]

I don't want to just sheep mastin [though I'm honestly kind of feeling tempted to]. q.q

Hey, worked in Drawn on Arrival! (Admittedly every time I get arrogant and

think

my play is great it ends up only being mediocre, and right now I'm feeling arrogant and think my play is great therefore it is almost certainly mediocre and not great, butstill, can't help but feel like I'm doing well. But if I had to choose a game this'd be closer to, DoA would be closer than Sabotage. I'm probably not right on everything. But I can feel I'm right on more than I'm wrong on.)

@mastin, you think that scum was trying for a quicklynch here?

No, I think that wagon has one or two scum on it and no more. I'd need to check the names on it to be sure, though.

1. Why do you feel horrible for voicing your opinions/reads?

Because calling someone scum after they replace out including thinking their replace-out post was scumposting is a horrible, horrible thing and yet here I am?

I don't really have any content to contribute right now with what little I've read and how far behind I am.

On the contrary. You gave plenty of content. It just all screamed scum to me. (Also, tangent, but I got a read on things in four pages.)

If you'd like to read more into my posts than there is, I suppose that's your prerogative.

Oh, there's certainly more to your posts than you think there is.

I need to interact with people to figure out the game and I don't see you positioning yourself in a way I can do that with you having shut down that flow of communication before it even started.

On the contrary, the one, and ONLY discussion I shut down is talks of lynching TTH. (For good reason.) Other than that, I've actually done more in 48 hours for opening talks up than the rest of the playerlist.

Let's just be more specific here Mastin. The not town content coming from Singer is her attempt to try to limp wristedly push the TTH wagon back into the spotlight based on "information". As I've said, the TTH wagon was a clusterf-, and using it for information will probably lead to more mislynches if scum are pushing that angle. I could see Singer trying to promote lynching those nervous about the speed of the wagon, rather than those on the wagon pushing for crap reasons. Besides, if she really wanted to lynch someone based on interaction and who would give the most information, she'd be angling for my lynch.

Well, my reasoning basically goes like this:
Zar when he was playing looked like scum.
Empire, through Zar as a proxy, looked like he was playing scum.
The switch-in looked like a scum-motivated switch.
Empire, from what I've gathered, looks like scum.
His replace-out looked like scum-faking-what-should-be-done-by-town. (I know this all too well. But I feel terrible about it--if I'm right, it's not a good accusation and if I'm wrong it's an even worse one to make.)
singer's posted plenty of content, contrary to her insistence she hasn't, but none of it has been town.

I just don't see the town in there.

[mastin2]

Mastin, usually you and I don't do a lot of direct interaction in games. I think the rest of this game day could benefit by being an exception.

Then talk to me. My reads have been posted. singer's stronger scum than ever before. Other updates I'll mention as they happen (my read on DV continues to degrade for instance), so it's really on your end.

[mastin2]

Can you please understand for the love of all that is holy that Empire is town and your gut is broken?

A player voting TTH holds no respect saying this to me, vezok.

Dead serious.
A player not voting TTH, even a scumread of mine, even if a player I've never met nor heard of, saying the exact same thing, holds more respect than you who I know and respect and think town. Because of a TTH vote.

[mastin2]

mastin is a derp, but what's new.

(Says the person who just said vezok could be scum. And witnessed me nail basically every anti-town in Drawn on Arrival save for one who died via NK during the night that was null. I do do derping, but no matter how much derping I do, and no matter how mediocre my play, I am not myself a derp.)

[mastin2]

(7)

TellTaleHeart:

Titus,

Empire

,

Tammy

,

Aronis, Marquis

,

vezokpiraka

, Cheetory6

(ChannelDelibrd)

[L-3]

Yeah, two scum max.

[mastin2]

(10)

Bulbazak:

DeasVail

, Gammagooey, Shadoweh, Cheetory6, Titus,

vezokpiraka

, GuyInFreezer, Aronis,

Tammy

, T S O
Also, the following people tried to cast bane votes on me after the hammer: CDB, UT

This, incidentally, is the strongest proof I have that my reads aren't perfect. Gamma's a townread, Shadow's getting a pass, Cheet looks town enough, I'm not interested in pursuing Titus, so really that leaves GIF, Aronis (who was a townread but I admit Bulba's sparked my interest in) and TSO for there to be scum aside from DV.

Not the best of odds.
I mean, logically, it makes no sense for there to be only one scum on the wagon.
But that's what my gut says.

Or that if there is a second, it's GIF. But that's just POE on thinking not-Aronis and not-TSO and not-the-people-I'm-passing. Thus the one. (Gut.)

[mastin2]

*Addendum: add UT to the list and make it GIF/UT.

[fferyllt]

So.

Vezok's town.
Tammy's town.
TTH is probtown.
Shadow I'm not touching.
Bulbazak's getting a pass.
Aronis may be town.
Cheetory is town enough.
Gamma looks fine.
CDB is good enough for now.
Marquis is kinda...ehhhh.
DV is just...ehhhhhhhhhh.
Empire's scum.
Espeonage is scum.


Leaves ActionDan, GIF, Titus, TSO, and UT to sort.

Titus and DV are god tier town to us atm. So is Tammy.

Why are you not touching Shadoweh? Why are you giving Bulba a pass?

Pretty sure Empire slot isn't scum.

Your to sort pile is strange. What do you need that you aren't getting from her posts to sort Titus?

What are your thoughts about the UT/Singer interactions?

[mastin2]

[ActionDan, Aronis, Bulbazak, GiF, Mastin2, Shadoweh]

I'm gonna be "that guy". (Well, girl. But the expression is 'that guy', so let's assume it's *generic* 'guy', rather than gendered 'guy', i.e. "hey guys" to a group of mixed genders.)

Yes,

that

one.
See that banner under DV's name?
I'm going there.

I am town. (Not just town, walking deadwoman town.)
TTH is town.
Bulbazak is town.
Shadow isn't as certainly town but probably is.
This list could have scum (Dan, Aronis, GIF), and probably does (town who's only mostly off, or scum who's bussing, either way works), but likely only one, two at absolute most and not particularly probable to be more than one. (Zero is possible.)

This is not scumhunter-of-the-year-level play.
It is, however, scumplayer-that's-darn-good play.

[mastin2]

Town: Titus, Tammy, Deevees, vezok, TSO

Like.
People keep telling me Empire was town.
And I see that slot, and I just go..."nope".

People keep telling me DV is town.
And I wonder what the heck the town is smoking.

[mastin2]

AS SCUM, you're trying to trick the town, or throw shit around, or blend in, or make enough noise that people get distracted, or whatever scum-playing tactic one might have, right?

Hey, singer.

Guess what I think you've been doing ever since you came into the game?

[mastin2]

are you guys reading mastin as town?

No duh, and Nacho owes me BIG time.

[singersigner]

Now, now, Mastin, you can't really go and accuse me of "insisting" anything when I simply stated once that after three posts of very little analysis, I didn't have much to offer. You may think the comment about having plenty to offer after four pages was just an aside, but even with that you're putting a huge burden of proficiency on me to provide something within hours of replacing into a 67ish? page game at that point. I've proven since then that I'm not hiding under excuses or trying to coast.

With regards to the content you felt I had given at that point, what exactly did you have a problem with?

And I wasn't saying you were shutting down much discussion, just the one pertinent to me when you offered such a brief opinion about how basically everything surrounding my slot was scum with no implication of being willing to continue a line of questioning that would allow me to clarify or ease any issues people have been having. I feel like scum would prefer me to stay stuck in a shady position as opposed to being willing to accept a new outlook from a fresh set of eyes after unfortunate circumstances.

I understand I'm biased here, but it's not really in anyone's best interest to assume the worst at this point.

[vezokpiraka]

Town: Titus, Tammy, Deevees, vezok, TSO

Like.
People keep telling me Empire was town.
And I see that slot, and I just go..."nope".

People keep telling me DV is town.
And I wonder what the heck the town is smoking.

yeah. The town is high and you are sober, not the other way around.

Also it seems like we don't want to lynch scum. Tell me when we decide something else.

[mastin2]

Titus and DV are god tier town to us atm. So is Tammy.

I'll give you Titus. I like what I'm seeing muchly. So too can I give you Tammy; I not only trust you there, but agree.

But I just cannot.
CanNOT.
See DV as town. The very post you cited (or was it Tammy, doesn't matter) as being town is so choked full of

wrongness

that it alone would be enough. Given the rest of what I've seen...this just feels like Tales-DV to me.

Why are you not touching Shadoweh? Why are you giving Bulba a pass?

Bulba-pass has been upgraded to full-on Bulba townread. What he's doing is just town. Shadow I'm not touching because of GreyICE mainly I admit.

What are your thoughts about the UT/Singer interactions?

Singer is scum. UT *might* be, but probably isn't.