8:4 Vanilla Nightless [TM2015] - GAME OVER

[ZZZX]

i am just surprised on the opposition hes getting indirectly. only 2-3 people said tehy refuse that vote yet... 8 are not voting it!

[Metal Sonic]

I simply want people to follow our votes right now. It's amazing how little attention Nachomamma is getting.

Do you want to express consent? We need explicit approval

[Albert B. Rampage]

It's worrying when obvious town aren't trusted over scumbags to steer the vote.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Do you want to express consent? We need explicit approval

No, I find that too exclusionary. All town need to pitch in for a town win.

[Metal Sonic]

Ok. No go, zzzx.


I think I will have time later btw!

[wgeurts]

Ok, why?
Titus likes giving reasons, you must have some you can share.

I already mentioned. She thinks that Nacho is playing professor mafia, trying very hard to get towncred rather than scumhunt. Titus has been adamant Nacho is scum for the pas week. She thinks you're town and I should convince you to vote Nacho, but I won't do that. I will let you make up your own mind, and I will do nothing to help you vote anyone else that isn't Nacho.

I'm not happy about joining a wagon by purely being asked to, I want to be sure it's the right one. Why is it so hard to relay titus' thoughts and reasoning?
You say you will not help me to vote anyone but Nacho yet you don't even do that, you just tell me he's scum. I can agree with the resitance now coming from those not voting, eddie just only commeneted on things to do with him and ignored all current happenings for instance as well.

Eddie, what do you think of Nacho and Kagami?

ABR, you're not going to get a lower score for keeping your reason to yourself. It's more pro-town to show everyone that someone is definetley scum by showing all why. I don't know Nacho's playstyle, hence I want people like you to explain why your small amount of reasoning is actually true.

[Metal Sonic]

Why is it so hard to relay titus' thoughts and reasoning?

umm maybe because theres a rule against team members writing posts for you and you must paraphrase them


btw im going to start writing my stuff now. brace yourselves.

[ZZZX]

can everyone who isnt known to all as town express a reason to NOT vote nacho or vote him?

[wgeurts]

Willing to vote him if someone explains why the hell I'm voting him.
Paraphrasing isn't that hard either MS, ABR's literally stated he simpy doesn't want to relay titus thoughts. He's lucky his other posts are town as fudge as I'd otherwise possibly call out that he's got no reasoning in his team thread to give.

Also, metal sonic: we are town.

[Metal Sonic]

we

who is the "we"?

I think you can be in the town for now but not in the town block. so ok. we will leave it like that for now.

[Metal Sonic]

Willing to vote him if someone explains why the hell I'm voting him.

well then you are going to have a field day when i lay out long and hard how greyice is scum.

have you made your case of him being town yet? I clicked your spoiler and it was barely a wall. in fact its super short. was that your "case for greyice" town because i dont think thats what i think

[wgeurts]

Metal Sonic, all your past reasons for voting me were (self-admittedly) false (or "lies" ) . Do not restart that as it leads to nowhere.

[wgeurts]

I'm writing a longer posts on Grey-Ice, as am I writing one on Kagami who's linked with GreyICE pretty strongly. Thos were the quick reads.

[wgeurts]

we

who is the "we"?

I think you can be in the town for now but not in the town block. so ok. we will leave it like that for now.

I would say the same about you however the town bloc is a group of players that trust fully that they are town and vote together. Me, you, ZZZX and ABR are almost globally town read so it should be us that form a town bloc. No matter what we think of one another.

[wgeurts]

@Nacho, had to say your mother's a hamster from Espeonage.

[Metal Sonic]

Sonic's post of the week

when you believe your position is correct and righteous you tend you throw petty shit like "logic" out of the window.

This can be done as town and as scum! Why is it alignment indicative and not playstyle-based? Do you go "fuck you" all around as town? Does that mean that you are not town when you don't do that? Why aren't you going "fuck you" all around yet?

Seraphim was the weakest of my scumreads thanks to the two things I outlined above.

The fact he didn't vote for Kagami when the time was right lessens this towntell quite a bit, as does Hoopla's townflip.

Didn't the latter statement already increase your scumread on him? I believe that "quite a bit" is synonymous to "a large amount", and since there were two scumtells (Not voting for Kagami + Hoopla's townflip), shouldn't he be lower on your scum list?

When Kagami started out the game, she wasn't cutting against the grain. She was cutting against GreyICE.
It's also not always the proper move to cut against the grain: sometimes, the tide is leaning a certain way for a reason and bucking against it for absolutely no idea isn't exactly the best play.

Is cutting ice less difficult than cutting against grain? A major amount of players seem to view GreyICE as town, what is the implication here?

2) Despite Seraphim's lip service to Kagami and Sotty wagons (IIRC), he only ended up on Hoopla and Metal Sonic wagons.

This is just description! What is the significance?

3) Zar ending up in the "Not Voting" pile sucks and is really garbage, but it also seems a pretty horrible play if he's scum, considering the whole strength in numbers thing.

Same for this!

I'm having some really serious difficulty seeing GreyICE as scum (and townread has been confirmed by Llamarble several times), and, if I'm lynched, I fully fully expect full control to be handed over to him: we are only likely to have room for one lone wolf if I'm dead today (which will invariably be ABR): if you are town and you don't listen to GreyICE if I am mislynched this game, you are the reason that the town lost.

Nice try, but after I make my GreyICE case, I hope you retract that!

The Empire Memorial Reads List, Part 1:

Ironic, because Empire completely replaced out of Team Mafia! What a loss... (for his team!)

both has content and is not contradicted by another of his posts.

Did you actually look through GreyICE's ISO to challenge this or are you spewing nonsense out of the air? Because if you did, you would notice that GreyICE has a large number of posts that are either self-contradictory, or lacking-in-content, and that was the point of the message!


Apart from those, it's difficult to find major issues with #1129. The post is acceptable.

This ended up longer than I thought it would be. =\

No, is pretty short.

#1157 is acceptable.

"The best point [GreyICE] makes is the token thing" is a direct quote from Kagami.

She's kind of saying that the rest of your points are shit. Apparently you concede that...?

Cabd's title is "Every Breath You Take" because he reads like... every game on site. He's famous for knowing the metas of even obscure people who have played in only a handful of games.

Guess so. Cabd's the strongest player on her team. Aaaand if you just did a little research, you would have noticed that Cabd is in no position to help Kagami. Aaaand Kagami is also a very well-informed player as well, so the reference to Cabd wasn't necessary.

Zar never did join any of the late game wagons, he road his sotty vote to lynch. I don't like how he did so.

Why did you not like how he did so?

Not a fan of Nacho's VCA since we only have one confirmed alignment so far and it was the person wagoned. The rest is just his reasoning hiding behind some kind of theroy to give it more weight.

This is a valid point.

Currently scum reading Metal.

Lol you, I'm going to ignore cause {my team said so}.

vezokpiraka would like to say that zzzx's last few posts were like he was scum caught for the wrong reasons!

What does he mean? o.O

I think he was referring to your posts in response to ABR. But that's fine, you're still town! It was just a comment.

#1191 is acceptable.

Me

, you, ZZZX and ABR are

almost globally town read

so it should be us that form a town bloc.

That is a lie. Do not lie. You are not "almost globally town read". The town bloc is only ZZZX, Me, and ABR.

Let me give you an example. ABR has you in the scumpile. I have you in the town-no-townbloc pile. ZZZX too.

So no. Don't try to fit yourself in. I don't like how Nacho tries to fit you in too.

____

time for some icebreaking

[wgeurts]

ZZZX is also in that ABR scum pile.

[wgeurts]

Also a quick search of "wgeurts town" reveals that Zar, GreyICE, ZZZX, Nacho and You are town reading me. That's only page one, I'll continue to look at the rest.

[wgeurts]

Oh and Seraphim. That makes, umm, over half the town?
I know I'm town so that means 7/11 players think I'm town. Those that don't are Kagami, Eddie, ABR and Sotty. Of those four Kagami and Sotty seem to have me as nullish/undecided.
So get your facts right MS, I'll leave it at that.

[wgeurts]

[quote=Metal Sonic]Why did you not like how he did so?[/quote]
He basically rode it out to lynch without ever intervening or joining the current discussion or wagons. It looked like he was just letting things play out themselves.

[Metal Sonic]

GreyICE Slamming

Hi everyone so I've found GreyICE scummier and scummier since late Day 1 and I have been talking about this a lot with my team. Hoopla stuff was going down so I would rather have started the push today instead. One of my previous cases involved GreyICE being partners with Hoopla, but that didn't work out. But apparently that was not very important, because I would still push GreyICE anyway! However my laptop battery is going to run out soon (17%) so this is going to be shorter than I wanted it to but I will do as much as I can!

Point 1: GreyICE has a significant number of self-contradictory posts that show a capability of scum-motivated actions.

GreyICE has recently been telling us all about "How discussing with a scum that their role PM is red is a waste of time". This means that GreyICE thinks that

making cases on

talking to scum are a waste of time and are not necessary. Okay... that is a fine way to think, but isn't he a little hypocritical when he mentioned this to me earlier in the game...?

Metal Sonic: You can't just ignore a player because you frequently clash with them. Other than that, I don't see too many points.

That's strange, because what I was doing earlier in the game was "talking to scum was a waste of time".

Read? Sure. Interact with or give much credence to? Not really. Spending four pages discussing with scum the color of their role PM is a pointless exercise.

As much as the above was hypocritical as to his earlier response to me (note that GreyICE probably forgot that he had made the comment in #165, it was quite a while ago and he had wisely dropped the point then), it is even more shocking to notice that GreyICE flouts his own maxim on page #47 when he "discusses with Kagami the color of her role PM" which I had a little trouble reading through.

[ABRIDGED FOR BREVITY]

Point 2: GreyICE does not address accusations against him, and only responds to posts. Ignoring the "attacks" against him by weaker players and covering it up by being louder than them, is a scum tactic to drown of voices of the soft.

You respond to posts. You do not address accusations in any of those. Not one.

In your list you even include 364, wherein you deliberately dodge the vast majority of 354, you only "respond" to the most minor of points.

You believe that you will be "caught for the wrong reasons" if you actually defend yourself.

You see, secretly I am reading you. Do my eyes glaze on MS walls? Sure. I didn't always read all of MOI walls either, and I avoid reading mastin's walls like they're plague (they make you less informed about the gamestate, so they kinda are). Do I read the posts my scumreads make. Fuck yes.

Original point made by Kagami. I think that many of you are wondering why I made the post in

i dont plan on writing a case against greyice

(because nobody reads my stuff apparently)

so I am going to ask this 1 question:

Greyice, do you read the posts of players that you scumread?

Read? Sure. Interact with or give much credence to? Not really. Spending four pages discussing with scum the color of their role PM is a pointless exercise.

The implication here is if GreyICE reads the posts that EddieFenix makes.

GreyICE is absolutely focused on Kagami (The easier lynch, definitely), and forgets, or deliberately ignores

Unvote

Vote GreyIce

Why in gods name did I move my vote to begin with? MS, please get your ass on the GI wagon. He dodged on slamming ZZZX's PbPA when it would have helped his case against Sotty, he sits here and goes about gallivanting on about how my accusations against him are stupid, when anyone who has accusations thrown at them in this manor would slam them to hell and back, not just sit in the corner goin "they're stupid, this player is stupid". It's the "cram my fingers in my ears and scream as loud as I can to drown it out" defense. Jesus fucking Christ. You say I dodged, I didn't dodge. Instead of saying yes 4+ fucking times to your questions in 1 post, I say it once to answer ALL of those questions. Time for you to read up, buttercup.

edit:

shiow me. use quotes.

Ooooh, the liar is choosing to stand by his post! And accusing me of running away, because of course no piece of flailing is complete without the raw panic portion of tonight's entertainment!

In post 214 I clearly and succinctly respond to Sotty's "accusations" even though they're thinly disguised OMGUS.
In 308 I respond to Eddie's claim that my vote and case were "just salesmanship" (because apparently it's townier to just naked vote and not try to convince other townies?).
In 539 I respond to the questions about my Hoopla read, and how it progressed.
In 364 AND 373 I respond to your RIDICULOUS accusation that I would never say "scum caught for the wrong reasons" as town. Your only response was to ignore that and then CIRCLE AROUND AND CALL IT WEAK BECAUSE IT WAS A DIRECT RESPONSE TO YOU.

That's five different posts, ENTIRE POSTS that are direct responses to three different people.

You are a liar Kagami. You know what we do with liars?

Vote: Kagami

Referencing 214 again when this has been discussed and countered. Hell, MS has broken down your sotty argument for the class to see in very much large wall format.
308, if that's the best response you could have had to my claim... Well, I would expect better.
539, MS breaks it apart
364 and 373, you call that a defense/counter?

There is no response to EddieFenix's post at all, strangely because discussing with Eddie the color of his role PM a pointless exercise? It's strange, because this not only strengthens and lends credence to (the allegedly scummier) Kagami's point, but also highlights that GreyICE's role PM isn't worth discussing.

In essence, GreyICE's entire argument against Kagami was flawed. Eddie highlighted this, but there was no rebuttal or response from GreyICE -- validating the fact. GreyICE is taking the easy way on Kagami, and Nacho's assertion of Kagami sitting and tunnelling GreyICE may actually be more sinister if it was the other way round -- plus GreyICE actually appears to have some indication of success in pushing the wagon.



Okay, battery's almost flat, that was long enough hopefully.

Not long enough to my standards but that should hold.

[wgeurts]

ABR, if Nacho flips town what will you then do?

[Metal Sonic]

Read my ISO for full details of my GreyICE scumread

If you're too lazy to do that, I'll make a wall later with the relevant quotes,

If you're too lazy to read that, just pledge your allegiance to me

[Metal Sonic]

ABR, if Nacho flips town what will you then do?

I think that flipping GreyICE would be a great idea.

[wgeurts]

Metal Sonic so you find him scim because he's hypocritical and hasn't addressed posts? I'll check your ISO the others.
What do you think of kagami?