We Didn't Playtest This | Game over, everyone loses

elusive · Post Post #5125 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 2:33 pm

Ok, ISOed Vonflare.

Some relevant posts are in spoilers below for later reference.

Spoiler:

Vonflare scum reads or pushes Ice\Marquis, Oranje, Toon Fighter. Actually mentions Oranje and Toon Fighter a lot which screams scum to me because town reads evolve and scum reads stay stagnant or are unnatural. He also pokes at Magua who is also confirmed town. Something about neighborhoods? What is this?

More empty posts and posts defending lack of content. #1979 jumps on a wagon without reason. #2074 is reluctant to lynch a lurker but votes Peregrinev and then writes "sorry" (any other links between vonflare and Peregrine?, both are lurkers who haven't claimed yet). Mentions hypoclaiming roleblocker for some reason due to 1 kill, I've heard of hypoclaim for cop but not roleblocker. #3662 more empty posting. Yep still voting Oranje. Responds to Oranje having some sort of meltdown. Drixx makes some comment about PeregrineV (PV) and vonflare's response is "

" Replaces out.

He doesn't see a case on Vyse and actually defends him later on and also doesn't want inactive people to be killed. So it's possible he's a Tropical Island mafia?

And ISOed PeregrineV, relevant posts are in spoilers:

Spoiler:

So PeregrineV also defends Vyse but he takes the opposite stance on Oranje as vonflare. He has lurker posts as well like vonflare and Vyse but much much more. #1217 votes ActionDan so that needs to be ISOed. In #3340, votes VysePresident when vonflare and VysePresident are both the top wagons I believe, that means probably not aligned with Vyse?

#3364, "With ika being scum, vonflare looks like a reluctant bus." Notes that Drixx has no interactions with Vyse at some point, so now wondering about that. Then Drixx provides a reads list and PeregrineV gets off him without much more explanation. Probably not aligned to Vonflare but could be aligned to Drixx. Wants a double day which is interesting (has there been discussion on why a double day could be pro town? With the double day feature, which would seem super town but then I think what if mafia has some kind of day kill roles to match?), town reads both Drixx and Titus, and then states listen to House (about ActionDan).

Overall, I can see a vonflare being on the same team as VysePresident just based on interactions. Vonflare also has way to many posting to look busy or active posts which I'm not fond of. Then, PeregrineV is a super hard lurker, I mean seriously. I only played with him in Drawn on Arrival where he was scum and pushed mislynches or was more active in trying to get town killed. What is his usual meta? I see links between PeregrineV and Drixx that are unexplained. Drixx is one that I have no real meta for a completed game.

Vonflare has links to VysePresident who he soft defends pretty much throughout and also has stagnant focus on Oranje and ToonFighter as scum. The strange thing about replaces is that if its a scum being replaced it gives them a bit of a reset. At this point I would vote for the slot based on ISO alone but now we have to wait for replace. Same thing probably about ActionDan who I need to ISO but I imagine the pattern of being a lurker and being stagnant in some way are true.

Bulbasaur can you discuss why you are being heavily scum read whether by flipped scum or some of the lurkers? Is it role or play related? Anyone can comment actually.

elusive · Post Post #5126 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 2:38 pm

↑ LucianRoy wrote:I'm unsure of the current main-train.

PV hasn't claimed yet, and bulbasaur commonwealth is on that train.

Actually interesting point. You, PeregrineV and Drixx are all on that train and Drixx\PV have some interactions that need to be looked at closely. Why are you on that train and have you changed your mind?

Can you answer any questions I directed at you? Or here are more questions:
1. It was stated that you had a choice in roles, why did you choose one over the other? Can you paraphrase your role claim?
2. What alignment are you?
3. What are your top 3 scum reads?

LucianRoy · Post Post #5127 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 2:50 pm

Choice in roles? This isn't GIM. What you probably heard was I had the ability to choose who I wanted to kill.

And I think I mentioned this recently, but I'm a Vengilante, a hybrid of a vengeful and a vigilante. I have a one-shot gun that can kill someone at any time during any phase, but it can also be used within 48 hours of my death.
I'm town, btw.

I don't really have full fledged reads at the moment, but I think it would be a good thing for PV to claim, Narn to restate an outline of his claim (if he hasn't done so already), and house to vote somebody because he drove the train everyone's currently on, and then left due to indecision.

Bulb's just been on a couple bad trains, and I'm not a huge fan of where he stands on those trains.

In conclusion, house is my best town read, and if he can't make up his mind when he's actually involved in this game, then why should I make up mine? (Since I'm pretty much the only relatively active person with a vote at the front of this train.)
He also drove the train, he also called for votes, then he said: "Hold up, imma think about this," and dropped from the train.

elusive · Post Post #5128 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 2:56 pm

Ok. what are your thoughts on Titus and Drixx? So what you're stating is that you are sort of active in the game and sheeping House on account of his being "actually involved in this game." Therefore, you have no reasoning of your own to vote ActionDan?

Do you see why you are setting off some red flags here?

House · Post Post #5129 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 3:01 pm

↑ elusive wrote:Ok. what are your thoughts on Titus and Drixx? So what you're stating is that you are sort of active in the game and sheeping House on account of his being "actually involved in this game." Therefore, you have no reasoning of your own to vote ActionDan?

Do you see why you are setting off some red flags here?

Speaking of setting off red flags, where are your trademark random questions?

elusive · Post Post #5130 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 3:07 pm

RQS works best on day one or when there isn't much to go on, it's day three in the game and there is something to go on or plenty so to speak.

LucianRoy · Post Post #5131 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 3:08 pm

↑ elusive wrote:Ok. what are your thoughts on Titus and Drixx? So what you're stating is that you are sort of active in the game and sheeping House on account of his being "actually involved in this game." Therefore, you have no reasoning of your own to vote ActionDan?

Do you see why you are setting off some red flags here?

No, I read him town because a.) he's probably an investigative role, b) I read ozgin's slot as town even before he subbed in, and c) we're hat buddies.
Ozgin also correctly guided my shot at mollie's hydra, and AD probably needs to be dealt with sooner or later.

Misrep all da way.

elusive · Post Post #5132 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 3:11 pm

↑ LucianRoy wrote:
↑ elusive wrote:Ok. what are your thoughts on Titus and Drixx? So what you're stating is that you are sort of active in the game and sheeping House on account of his being "actually involved in this game." Therefore, you have no reasoning of your own to vote ActionDan?

Do you see why you are setting off some red flags here?

No, I read him town because a.) he's probably an investigative role, b) I read ozgin's slot as town even before he subbed in, and c) we're hat buddies.
Ozgin also correctly guided my shot at mollie's hydra, and AD probably needs to be dealt with sooner or later.

Misrep all da way.

The above, which I had to extract from you was much more useful then the below which is what you originally stated:

↑ LucianRoy wrote:

In conclusion, house is my best town read, and if he can't make up his mind when he's actually involved in this game, then why should I make up mine? (Since I'm pretty much the only relatively active person with a vote at the front of this train.)
He also drove the train, he also called for votes, then he said: "Hold up, imma think about this," and dropped from the train.

Bulbasaur Commonwealth · Post Post #5133 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 3:14 pm

↑ Titus wrote:@BC, Knowing the lovers impacts balance and its highly unlikely for two scum lovers.

1 town/1 scum?

But again, why does this really matter right now?

↑ Toon Fighter wrote:@Bulbasaur: Why the rush in lynching AD? We have no deadline right now. He is being replaced. Can't you wait for a couple days?

It was an observation, mainly. Although I'm worried that this wagon's going to peter out, too.

↑ Drixx wrote:Aren't Serial Killers forced to kill? That's the point of them being "serial" killers.

...No? That's Compulsive.

Also, being a serial killer IRL means that you've killed multiple people. It has nothing to do with killilng on some kind of schedule (although I imagine some real-life SKs do kill like that). SKs can no-kill if they choose to.

↑ Titus wrote:I believed it was an example of protown rolefishing and I would ask again if I had it to do over.

I'm still not really seeing why outing lovers (if Elusive is one) is a good idea.

↑ elusive wrote:Bulbasaur can you discuss why you are being heavily scum read whether by flipped scum or some of the lurkers? Is it role or play related? Anyone can comment actually.

I...don't know?

Actually, Pika townread me, and Vyse did by the end of D2.

↑ LucianRoy wrote:Narn to restate an outline of his claim (if he hasn't done so already),

He has, if you'd read?

↑ LucianRoy wrote:and if he can't make up his mind when he's actually involved in this game, then why should I make up mine?

...Because it's your own goddamn mind?

You don't need House to hold your hand to make your own decision.

(and excuse me for not always being there right when a wagon starts :resent:)

-Ivy

LucianRoy · Post Post #5134 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 3:18 pm

No, my point is that I want House and me to be on the same train at the end of the day. He's my strongest townread, and it would much better if we worked together, rather than have our own separate lynchs.

LucianRoy · Post Post #5135 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 3:24 pm

↑ Narninian wrote:For People are confused about my role;

Each night I target one player and redirect the first kill targeting that player to another player.
If I target the original killer(s) or an invalid target then my redirect fails.

I don't get any feedback, and I don't know how timing works if there are multiple kill attempts. I assume they have an order predetermined.

I thought you said something about another faction's kill needing to be targeted on the same slot that you redirected a kill to in order for it to be successful?
Kind of like a double kill.

LucianRoy · Post Post #5136 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 3:35 pm

Oh, I just iso'd you; turns out I'm delirious.

House · Post Post #5137 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:23 pm

↑ LucianRoy wrote:No, my point is that I want House and me to be on the same train at the end of the day. He's my strongest townread, and it would much better if we worked together, rather than have our own separate lynchs.

That's sweet and all, but Dan's explanation (CN: conversation w/ mod) explained why he just kinda wandered off without saying much about Drixx in the thread.

I really don't want to lynch there today, if the only reason to lynch him was because of my push. If you have your own reasons to want him dead, let's hear them and I might be persuaded to climb back aboard.

Titus · Post Post #5138 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:26 pm

@BC, I will try this one more time and then drop it. I will work from the inside outward, meaning I start from determining what must be and work my way back to what must be done. Behavior is my weakest component for this site.

As scum, I generally win by withholding information until I wish to reveal it. If scum hide information, they can create an impression that does not exist. This is ehy I say mafia is a game of information. If a hypothetical lover is scum, they know and will not kill her. If they are both town, scum will shoot them quickly. Yet
in this setup, mafia has no clue. Killing another scum hurts them because it gives a shit ton of associative info and can remove a nightkill.

Who scum elect to kill is just as important as why. Every night action gives a tell, not an OMG tell but information none the less. It's why I hate Boonskiies and House failing to submit. To be fair, Ozgin failed but House's slot.

I also see the moves I do as scum as very scummy in someone else. Hence why I never leash an SK, always force a suicide bomber to explode, and make the lovers claim.

ChriVi · Post Post #5139 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:16 pm

Based on information I have received either from me or cerb, the masons are not from the same setup as me and cerb, making their claim more possible.

I'm getting mixed reads from Titus... I liked you earlier but some of your stuff is making me feel awkward. I'll bring it up again if it gets serious enough to warrant a vote or a case or anything.

Cerberus v666 · Post Post #5140 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:39 pm

Lol ChriVi, I already full claimed awhile back, so they know about my ability. So I might die! But if I die, then they know you're town! Oh no! Whatever will scum do!

Anyways. AD train is dead. He's replacing out, and his explanation of his scummy behavior is reasonable enough that I doubt enough momentum exists for people to want to vote him. I still think he could very well be scum, because of all the kill immune players, I feel he's the scummiest, and someone has to be lying.

I also dislike both boon and death, and if I had to pick one to lynch it would be boon. I'm not sure of the merit in lynching them right now though.

Vonflare: why is he still alive? Same with PV. I almost feel like PV should be PL'd at this point for the absurd lurkiness in a slot which isn't replacing out.

Cuttlefish · Post Post #5141 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:38 pm

Vote Count 3.13

ActionDan (6)

- PeregrineV, LucianRoy, Bulbasaur Commonwealth, Drixx, Three-Pronged Trouser God, elusive

BBmolla (4)

- deathfisaro, Titus, Cerberus v666, Narninian, BBmolla

Drixx (2)

- ChriVi, Toon Fighter

Titus (1)

- Boonskiies

Oranje Crush (1)

- vonflare

Boonskiies (1)

- ActionDan

Not Voting (3)

: Oranje Crush, House, BRantz

With 18 votes in play, it takes 10 to lynch.

Deadline falls in (expired on 2015-04-11 10:14:33).

Deadline is suspended while I search for replacements.

ActionDan and vonflare are being replaced.

Due to receiving outside influence, T-Bone has been forcibly ejected from the game. His other two hydra partners may continue to post normally.

elusive · Post Post #5142 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:08 pm

Titus, as town I also withhold some information. This has been true of all my games and even if I give info I sometimes try to withhold something. I haven't met a town I trust enough with all my secrets.

VOTE: Unvote

If I had to vote based on ISO, I would be voting vonflare due to all the VysePresident connections but he's also replacing out. Then LucianRoy, something seems off there.

↑ Cerberus v666 wrote:I also dislike both boon and death, and if I had to pick one to lynch it would be boon. I'm not sure of the merit in lynching them right now though.

What does this mean? Why would you want to lynch those two? Why isn't there merit in lynching them right now?

Also, those in DOA, which was also called multi-ball, what exactly does that mean? I follow two games smushed together and there doesn't have to be balance (although is it mod confirmed that there doesn't have to be balance?). DOA was balanced out with roles corresponding to town and mafia and two sks and actually balanced even though it was bastard.

God of Power Outlets · Post Post #5143 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:42 am

Real quick since I'm at my girl's house and cell coverage is spotty

1) t-bone was the only head that was following the game closely

2) he was also the one reminding me to play nice

3) a certain dickhead apparently spoiled the setup for him, resulting in his expulsion. And yes, he is a dickhead. Only dickheads ruin games for living players

4) not sure how much tripod is following along, probably less than me. Almost certainly so, actually

More later this evening

-kuribo

Drixx · Post Post #5144 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:05 am

Wait ... seriously? Someone (presumably not one of the two mods) somehow knew the setup of this game and specifically spoiled it to t-bone? WTF?

Narninian · Post Post #5145 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:15 am

I'm in a game he's modding and you made me panic a little bit thinking I sent a choice into him or something.

Cerberus v666 · Post Post #5146 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:19 am

Elusive, they're claiming straight cop roles, with some modifications that weaken them. I'd prefer to force scum to shoot them amd resolve the issue of not knowing which cop claim to believe, than risk town doing the work for them at this point.

Titus · Post Post #5147 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:24 am

Multiball means more than one killing evil faction.

deathfisaro · Post Post #5148 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:23 am

↑ elusive wrote:
↑ Cerberus v666 wrote:I also dislike both boon and death, and if I had to pick one to lynch it would be boon. I'm not sure of the merit in lynching them right now though.

What does this mean? Why would you want to lynch those two? Why isn't there merit in lynching them right now?

If you're town, or at least try to put yourself in a town mindset, I don't think it's so hard to figure out. Like this guy:

↑ Cerberus v666 wrote:Elusive, they're claiming straight cop roles, with some modifications that weaken them.
I'd prefer to force scum to shoot them
amd resolve the issue of not knowing which cop claim to believe, than risk
town doing the work for them
at this point.

Assume some (or all) of the investigative claims were fake and/or they're non-town.
This game is confirmed to have at least 2 scum factions and although not explicitly confirmed, almost certainly at least 1 SK.
No matter in which non-town faction you place these people, there is at least 1 non-town faction that isn't sure whether the claim is true or not (i.e. they don't know if the claim is real and they'll end up getting investigated and outed and lynched).
So you're moving the danger of risk from town's hands to scum's hands. They can either take the risk and not believe the claim and let these people live, or they can shoot these fellas, at which point we lose those people but at least we didn't waste lynches on them.

PeregrineV · Post Post #5149 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:18 am

Checking in- will read up.