Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Titus]

Singer, why are you asking me what's the point of every question? It's annoying and frustrating. GiF and ika have different ways of approaching the game than me but I am trying to work with them.

[singersigner]

Because you have a different way of approaching the game than me and I'm trying to work with you.

[fferyllt]

fwiw I don't support a GiF lynch.

[DeasVail]

oh then yes, trust is relevant, cool

Are you seriously intend to go semantics on this
I'm really disappointed, even more after your 2221.

I haven't read the recent part of the game properly nor do I want to lynch CDB, so the amount of effort I intend to devote to reading him right now is limited. I guess I'm also kind of annoyed by you saying I don't need to trust you and then revealing that I essentially do but it has no influence on my read of you.

[Titus]

Because you have a different way of approaching the game than me and I'm trying to work with you.

Constantly asking me why is not effective. Instead pick a read and advocate or put out a strategy. Otherwise it feels like nitpicking.

[GuyInFreezer]

oh then yes, trust is relevant, cool

Are you seriously intend to go semantics on this
I'm really disappointed, even more after your 2221.

I haven't read the recent part of the game properly nor do I want to lynch CDB, so the amount of effort I intend to devote to reading him right now is limited. I guess I'm also kind of annoyed by you saying I don't need to trust you and then revealing that I essentially do but it has no influence on my read of you.

If your devoting effort on reading him is limited, what you're doing is certainly not the way you should be reacting when someone jumps in and points to something that might help sorting that read easily, even if it might not help at all (which is why I added 'it's something that me or my teammates can understand'. To check exactly that). Truth be told, while it is true that it's harder for anyone other than I or my teammate to understand, if you know what to look for, everyone can understand it.

[singersigner]

Because you have a different way of approaching the game than me and I'm trying to work with you.

Constantly asking me why is not effective. Instead pick a read and advocate or put out a strategy. Otherwise it feels like nitpicking.

I am nitpicking. Despite having 380 posts, I'm still having a hard time getting into your head and understanding your logick train/motivations.

[Titus]

Because you have a different way of approaching the game than me and I'm trying to work with you.

Constantly asking me why is not effective. Instead pick a read and advocate or put out a strategy. Otherwise it feels like nitpicking.

I am nitpicking. Despite having 380 posts, I'm still having a hard time getting into your head and understanding your logick train/motivations.

This is the clearest I have been in awhile. My stances are clear. I have a few scumreads but I am letting my townreads lead and working with them to improve that skill since I am the weakest in the early game.


I am notoriously hard to follow as a reputation, but I am working on that.

[singersigner]

@FFery, After today's first lynch, I would like to try an exercise that has us work together. We will post our townreads. Those who we match on, we do not lynch or push. Then we each toggle down until we get to four remaining players. We then agree the second lynch is within those four and put our town weight behind it. I would like to stop sucking as widely townread plus force myself to work with people even if I do not always agree with their reads and this seems like a method to do that

Btw, this is pretty scum motivated, btw. It allows scumyou to basically put all your partners in the town pile and have them out of the viable lynches for the day, while displacing the responsibility of your reads on "trying to get better" instead of "trying to play the game as well/accurately as possible."

And once again, you're calling on your influence over the town even though you've previously stated you don't want to have that influence and/or you don't think you have it! Which is it??

My team also collectively thinks TTH should claim now before the possibility of putting together a fake claim tomorrow based on results/actions of partner.

Regfan will embellish on his Shadoweh read (past what I've posted already) later.

[Titus]

@Singer, I don't want to unilaterally make decisions. Stop twisting. That block of unlynchable players would be decided by both of us at a minimum. Any plan can be broken if scum have fooled us even if we're working together. This lynch isn't about placing blame, it's about sealing off mislynches and coordinating. How else do you expect townblocks to work together if not exluding

mutual

townreads? This looks like flail. I do want an epic towngame but not one where I am shouting and marginalized.

Also, how do you get from nitpicking and not understanding to assuming scum motivation? Do you understand my posts or not?

The small size is also really fucking annoying.

@FFery, Am I right? Is Singer Flailing here?

[Titus]

Oh and I am steadfastly against TTH claiming.

[singersigner]

The way I see it, no one is working together right now, no one is compromising, people are melting into the night, not being held accountable, and being stubborn about who they want lynched when, based on the fact that after 80 pages we still have 6-7 different people being voted. Your appeal to someone who can't even vote is lofty at best.

How can I flail when I'm discussing the motivations of someone who isn't even voting me? I'm in no danger of getting lynched. I'm not shouting at you. I'm not marginalizing you. I'm simply pointing out where I saw the flaw in your plan and asking you to acknowledge it.

[GuyInFreezer]

The way I see it, no one is working together right now, no one is compromising, people are melting into the night, not being held accountable, and being stubborn about who they want lynched when, based on the fact that after 80 pages we still have 6-7 different people being voted.

Knowing this problem, why is your vote sitting on Shadoweh?

[GuyInFreezer]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: esp

[fferyllt]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: esp

I'm good with this.

[fferyllt]

Oh and I am steadfastly against TTH claiming.

I don't understand why you're townreading her so strongly.

@GiF what is the post number of the town tell?

[fferyllt]

@Singer, I don't want to unilaterally make decisions. Stop twisting. That block of unlynchable players would be decided by both of us at a minimum. Any plan can be broken if scum have fooled us even if we're working together. This lynch isn't about placing blame, it's about sealing off mislynches and coordinating. How else do you expect townblocks to work together if not exluding

mutual

townreads? This looks like flail. I do want an epic towngame but not one where I am shouting and marginalized.

Also, how do you get from nitpicking and not understanding to assuming scum motivation? Do you understand my posts or not?

The small size is also really fucking annoying.

@FFery, Am I right? Is Singer Flailing here?

I don't think so. Not the sort of thing I consider to be flail.

[Titus]

@Singer, That post makes no sense.

You complain no one is working together, yet you are complaining about me working with conftown.
You complain no one is compromising, while ignoring the fact I have been voting with my townreads.
You complain people are melting into the night, yet you don't explain what this means or who is doing it.
You complain no one is being stubborn while at the same time complaining no one is working together.
You complain about working with conftown because she cannot vote, as if that's a good reason not to.
You complain about no one pushing their targets while nitpicking me (who you won't lynch today) and not posting about Shadoweh.

You can flail because you don't feel you have a voice. That's exactly what this feels like. Oh and for good measure, I only have one vote and FFery does not want you lynched and Espy is the larger wagon.

[Titus]

Oh and I am steadfastly against TTH claiming.

I don't understand why you're townreading her so strongly.

@GiF what is the post number of the town tell?

Mostly wagon composition and terrible pushes for TTH to claim.

[fferyllt]

The way I see it, no one is working together right now, no one is compromising, people are melting into the night, not being held accountable, and being stubborn about who they want lynched when, based on the fact that after 80 pages we still have 6-7 different people being voted. Your appeal to someone who can't even vote is lofty at best.

How can I flail when I'm discussing the motivations of someone who isn't even voting me? I'm in no danger of getting lynched. I'm not shouting at you. I'm not marginalizing you. I'm simply pointing out where I saw the flaw in your plan and asking you to acknowledge it.

I feel like I should be a huge help in giving town a balanced center today. It's mostly not happening. I'm not sure why. Maybe you can tell me why you're not really engaging me. It seems to be a chronic thing.

[fferyllt]

Oh and I am steadfastly against TTH claiming.

I don't understand why you're townreading her so strongly.

@GiF what is the post number of the town tell?

Mostly wagon composition and terrible pushes for TTH to claim.

So not based on her play so much as others'.

You're always going to be in conflict with reads-based players if that's how you decide who's town.

[GuyInFreezer]

Oh and I am steadfastly against TTH claiming.

I don't understand why you're townreading her so strongly.

@GiF what is the post number of the town tell?

1929.
It might not look it at the first glance, but if you think about it a little bit, you'll see what I see too.

[fferyllt]

ah. you explained that already and I agreed with you.

[Titus]

Oh and I am steadfastly against TTH claiming.

I don't understand why you're townreading her so strongly.

@GiF what is the post number of the town tell?

Mostly wagon composition and terrible pushes for TTH to claim.

So not based on her play so much as others'.

You're always going to be in conflict with reads-based players if that's how you decide who's town.

My behavioral reads suck early game. If I see reasons that make logical sense on someone, I let it go. For instance, I thought the Bulba reads were terrible but not necessarily heavily scumladen at first because my behavioral read was different. I then look for facts as quick as I can to get grounded. The biggest time I will lurk is RVS.

[singersigner]

The way I see it, no one is working together right now, no one is compromising, people are melting into the night, not being held accountable, and being stubborn about who they want lynched when, based on the fact that after 80 pages we still have 6-7 different people being voted. Your appeal to someone who can't even vote is lofty at best.

How can I flail when I'm discussing the motivations of someone who isn't even voting me? I'm in no danger of getting lynched. I'm not shouting at you. I'm not marginalizing you. I'm simply pointing out where I saw the flaw in your plan and asking you to acknowledge it.

I feel like I should be a huge help in giving town a balanced center today. It's mostly not happening. I'm not sure why. Maybe you can tell me why you're not really engaging me. It seems to be a chronic thing.

I tend to pay attention to people who pay attention to me. I trust Nacho's reads (and probably yours?), but unless I'm trying to convince you you're wrong about me, I feel like my priorities are to figure out the alignments of people I don't already know.

I will be more than willing to switch wagons but I need to wait for Regfan's case to be heard and acknowledged first. If it's unconvincing then I'll find my way to another wagon and do something about Shadoweh later.