Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Titus]

Oh and CES says to tell singer that we're town.

And both he and I want to tell GiF that he's not allowed to swap with ika.

I will have to stare at this for quite awhile bc I don't see it.

[fferyllt]

And your reason for thinking bulba is town in this game is one recent game where he was scum, as near as I can tell.

[Titus]

And your reason for thinking bulba is town in this game is one recent game where he was scum, as near as I can tell.

Bulba was the town doctor in HU2. I was scum there. He was widely scumread.

[fferyllt]

town doctor and scum share some motivations. I've tunneled more doctors than I think any other PR in the games where I've mistaken PR tells for scum tells.

[Titus]

Ok, I usually apply that to lurking/activity rather than the logical content/depth of a post. For players who read off reactions, I can see what I feel is a misread as both share the same survivalistic tendancies.

[GuyInFreezer]

ika says bulba was nowhere near the universal scumread in that game.

[GuyInFreezer]

and he also says singer is town and is willing to work with her.

[Titus]

@GiF - Bulba was fmpov. I never scumread him there but I did and do feel that way. Tammy really pushed Bulba scum bc of his "cherrypicked" reactions. DV I believe made similar comments and that didn't make me feel good.

Singer...I don't like anything out of her mouth but I will try to keep an open mind.

[fferyllt]

Ok, I usually apply that to lurking/activity rather than the logical content/depth of a post. For players who read off reactions, I can see what I feel is a misread as both share the same survivalistic tendancies.

both also tend to look for town PRs, who may also appear survivalistic. It's the PR antennae that I usually notice.

[Titus]

I suck at PR hunting and crumbing so that's why I never look for it until the end game or when there's a claim. *shrug*

[GuyInFreezer]

@GiF - Bulba was fmpov. I never scumread him there but I did and do feel that way. Tammy really pushed Bulba scum bc of his "cherrypicked" reactions. DV I believe made similar comments and that didn't make me feel good.

I mean if you were scum in that game then your read on him in that game is kinda moot you know
Also Titus rn I can't even follow your convo with fery right now and I find the theory thing time wasting especially when fery's time is limited.
You prob should hold that off until post-game.

[Titus]

GiF, the theory talk helps me understand FFery and even if I lose this game, I still feel this conversation was useful. I will never be able to understand her reads completely but if I can figure out what she'd do, maybe I can avoid a bad tunnel or two.

I am prone to go theory but that's my backdrop for understanding and analyzing actions.

[GuyInFreezer]

I mean normally it'd be ok but right now we can't waste fery's time whose posting time is limited. She is conftown and has nacho and llarmable in her team so we gotta get the most we can get from them.

[Titus]

I mean normally it'd be ok but right now we can't waste fery's time whose posting time is limited. She is conftown and has nacho and llarmable in her team so we gotta get the most we can get from them.

Agreed. That's precisely what I am trying to do. We just view different things as valuable.

[GuyInFreezer]

Why do you scumread vezok/ut/tso?

Do you townread Aronis?

[Titus]

Why do you scumread vezok/ut/tso?

Do you townread Aronis?

Vezok had a horrible push on TTH.
UT has been friendly but I need more. He's my weakest read though bc this doesn't really match Uncouth mafia.
TSO has been largely combative and self-centered attacking anyone who doesn't give him what he wants and he has not worked much with FFery even when he was here.

I don't townread Aronis but not really scumreading him either.

[Marquis]

so much -

[fferyllt]

GiF you could be making a little more effort to utilize my time.

[GuyInFreezer]

What I'm doing rn is already 150% effort I can muster this week though.

[GuyInFreezer]

Why do you scumread vezok/ut/tso?

Do you townread Aronis?

Vezok had a horrible push on TTH.
UT has been friendly but I need more. He's my weakest read though bc this doesn't really match Uncouth mafia.
TSO has been largely combative and self-centered attacking anyone who doesn't give him what he wants and he has not worked much with FFery even when he was here.

I don't townread Aronis but not really scumreading him either.

You should know better than calling read difference scummy.
Also your description of tso is what I've seen him as town.

[Untrod Tripod]

UT has been friendly but I need more. He's my weakest read though bc this doesn't really match Uncouth mafia.

uncouth is a terrible example of my scum game

[Titus]

@GiF, the push to claim solely bc detect was horrible. There are plenty of people who disagree with me, so please do not pretend that's all it is.

@UT, what is a good example? What are your current reads? Argue for something please...

[Aronis]

I'll try to catchup tomorrow sometime.

[Bulbazak]

aaaand also also also I might sort of think that bulba could be town that's just being sketchy and a little manipulative and is scumhunting in a way that is pretty easy for scum to fake but I expect that this opinion will change again when bulba continues doing those things and i continue to hate them

I'm thinking you just dislike my playstyle. However, I do take offense to being called manipulative. Where have I been manipulative?

@Bulba: Yes, but I am less confident that I am reading accurately this game and am holding out for later to see if my head is going good.

I see. Walk me through this read again.

2) I asked for a shortlist, more than once. I got one choice before eventually getting three. I voted before the other two were volunteered but the intent is obvious and, as I say, reasons are vindicated by the fact that I say I'm sticking with vezok over the other two

before

ffery says same

This still does not disprove my point at all.

3) I think you should look at the recently finished Uncouth mafia in theme park and look at my treatment of ika day 1 if you think I wouldn't express support for a major wagon as town while getting on with something else. Almost more important to make a point of doing something about little-spoken-about Gif than making even clearer the fact that I also suspected TTH, which should have been obvious from my questioning of her late in minor day.

My problem wasn't you showing support for the TTH wagon but not being on it. My problem was you expressing being nervous about the wagon while somewhat voicing support. That support was kinda limpwristed, btw. It looked like you wanted to be off the wagon when it went through and TTH flipped town, yet you wanted to leave the possibility open for your joining later if needed.

4) if i were only arguing on basis of 'unfair time to wagon me' then that would be fair point, but I'm doing that AND addressing concerns as best I can. I can appreciate that you would prefer to vote your highest scumread regardless of availability but the unique advantage of this game is that you can pursue two targets today and still come back on me for lynch 2 when I have more time and internet to play properly (obviously helps to avoid mislynch on me but even if i were scum you would prefer me to have more time to make posts that would help you catch buddy tells later so it's hard to argue that wagoning me now is a good plan).

Fair enough.

@Tammy, Let me be blunt with you. I see zero "personal drama" from Espy, and I am scumreading him. I think you are blowing things out of proportion. That leads me to wonder, hyperparanoid town or scum? The fact you might be switching with Oversoul doesn't look good to me as I have difficulties reading him (Dr. Who I tunnelled him bad, and only cleared him in InuYasha due to VCA) and you are supposed to be obvtown if town. I do not mean this as a threat but telling you how I will perceive it and I doubt I am the only one who would be bothered. Would you be lynched on this alone? No but it does get my paranoia juices flowing.

If Tammy replaces with Oversoul, it will have nothing to do with this game.

Ok what are people's opinions on TTh's case on Marq? Considering how solid it looked to me, I'm surprised that we're the only two votes on him.

I didn't see that as much of a case. I can see why that would make TTH want to vote Marquis, but it doesn't really do much for me in the long run.

My team also collectively thinks TTH should claim now before the possibility of putting together a fake claim tomorrow based on results/actions of partner.

Anyone who still thinks this is town needs to explain why the above is town motivated, and then stay for a bit while I .

Bulba was the town doctor in HU2. I was scum there. He was widely scumread.

I had some doubt thrown at me d2 after scum failed to kill me n1. I made it abundantly clear on that first day that I was town with good reads. Scum spent the next two days trying to discredit me before killing me for good.

town doctor and scum share some motivations. I've tunneled more doctors than I think any other PR in the games where I've mistaken PR tells for scum tells.

I'm not sure what to make of this. Really, this is quite horrible. Please just give me a complete reads list now, because I think Mollie is right and your reads are way out there.

Unvote

Vote Singersigner

[mastin2]

Yo. Apologies for this, because I know I should post tonight technically, but I'm dead tired; I'm in no condition to read 12 pages. I SHOULD, however, have enough time tomorrow (at least two hours if my math is right) to catch up here. For reference, that's back here, meaning it'll be a little bit of work on my end but you most certainly can look forward to it. (I'm pretty much 95% certain I have the time. But even if not, all that'd mean would be late-night Tuesday, or absolute worst case, Wednesday. In any case, content soon, just not tonight. I need sleep.)