Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[mastin2]

I am fine with Singer CDB or Espy. I will vote the biggest wagon.

I would

prefer

not CDB, since I don't really feel that wagon.

Esp or singer, though, are both fine.

...

That being said

, though, as established, I actually think that Esp is less likely to be scum than singer, so if I had a preference between the two, it'd actually be singer, sooooooooooooooooo...
VOTE: singersigner.

[mastin2]

@Gamma

Nacho wants to know what the fuck that singer vote was. he's calling it garbage.

Back off from Gamma. He's not a SOLID, townbloc read, but he is in fact a townread.

GiF I'm not feeling so good about you being town lately. It makes me inexpressibly sad.

(That's because he's probably not.)

[Titus]

@Mastina, Thanks. We need to talk about GiF. He's town but I can't explain why. He should be in the block.

I usually am never invited to townblocks so I am fine with it for now. You aren't conftown though but I am reasonably happy to say you're town for today and TTH is.

Get the votes and I will move to singer. I think both are likely scum.

[vezokpiraka]

I am fine with Singer CDB or Espy. I will vote the biggest wagon.

I would

prefer

not CDB, since I don't really feel that wagon.

Esp or singer, though, are both fine.

...

That being said

, though, as established, I actually think that Esp is less likely to be scum than singer, so if I had a preference between the two, it'd actually be singer, sooooooooooooooooo...
VOTE: singersigner.

I'm willing to believe that I might be missing something this game, but the moment you vote for singer my brain goes kaboom and I start to think you are scum.

@UT: For the love of god help move this wagon away.

Also where the fuck is TSO?

[mastin2]

When singer flips town I'm going to have all the people who voted her move to tth.

And when she flips scum I'm going to have all the people who voted TTH instead of her work with me to nail the other scum.

@GiF, I guess ActionDan, Gamma, and Espy. That's as hard as you are going to get. For singer to be scum and have no one defend her, that means scum are mist likely wagoned themselves or trying to push a CW. Dan is included because he has done nothing and that is consistent with two buddies being wagoned. Am I at all confident? Nope. This is my gun to my head scum team if Singer's scum.

^My reasoning is something akin to this, though not exactly. TTH was the town wagon, and people continuing to push there = the counterwagon. The question comes in, is Esp scum, is singer scum, or are both scum? Singer's more scum to me than Esp, but my current guess is that both are, albeit weaker on Esp.

I'm just generally picking up a strong vibe that scum REALLY want singer alive. And that they'd do anything to keep her that way.

[mastin2]

Which is town.

Agree.

No argument here. I do in fact see the town in CDB from it.

[ActionDan, Aronis, Bulbazak, GiF]

That's a pretty terrible lynch pool.

Well, to be fair to DV, the only hardfast horribad name in there is Bulbazak. And regardless of DV's alignment, a scum is likely to be in there. (Just no more than one.) But Dan and Aronis are both hard nulls.

Ok what are people's opinions on TTh's case on Marq? Considering how solid it looked to me, I'm surprised that we're the only two votes on him.

Just as Bulb's case on Aronis made me reconsider my townread, TTH's case on Marquis made me consider Marquis for being scum.

Not solidified, though.

[singersigner]

TTH scum read is based on two large things:

1.

TTH visiting DV

: DV is widely regarded as one of the most universally town-read people in this game, and my team has a really hard time justifying what kind of role could be provable that would justify this action. He's fairly active and far from incompetent, and seems like a prime N1 scum kill target. Without mentioning or commenting on DV during Minor Day 1, and stressing her town read of Marquis with the Boon vote, it looks like scum trying to find the sign for that accurate night kill. Her return in Post 1484 and reaction in Post 1486 make very little sense from our perspective. Like I said earlier, we feel so strongly that this is not a town-motivated action or reaction, that we don't want to give her the opportunity to come back and fake-claim something later based on more scum results and the likelihood that this was done in order to kill DV.

2.

TTH replacing in:

Before you get your panties in a bunch, it's not just because Anti replaced out and he hates being scum. The excuse given was that Anti didn't have time for this game and couldn't keep up with how large it had gotten. Because of this, I/we would expect much more out of her. Even Titus has accredited her with being competent, so it's weird that she's satisfied with TTH's contributions which we all have found to be underwhelming at best. Not only that, but her contributions basically break down like this: 30% defending her action last night, agreeing with Mastin through Post 1520 (which feels like scum taking advantage of Mastin's terrible reads), disappearing for three days only to come back and comment on Tammy's case/how busy she is/how she has reads but doesn't give them (Post 2116), then attacking DV's reads in Post 2117.

It boils down to actively lurking unless she's the topic of conversation, and not being able to substantiate the reasons for her action while simultaneously being as little a factor in this game as Antihero was.

[Oversoul]

hello all

[Oversoul]

Just two things because I was having a shitattack in our PT

What was the point of booning Vezok?
Why is UT getting away with so much scummy shit?

[mastin2]

My team also collectively thinks TTH should claim now before the possibility of putting together a fake claim tomorrow based on results/actions of partner.

And I'll fight tooth-and-claw (because my nails are too long, natch) to stop this. TTH pressure dies as long as I live. Preferably longer.

This is my gun to my head scum team if Singer's scum.

What if singer is town?

My reads change very little.
I push Esp a whole lot stronger as being scum.
DV still has my eye.
You're slightly less suspicious, but I still look at people like Dan, Marquis, and Aronis to fill in the scumteam.

@FFery, Am I right? Is Singer Flailing here?

I'm not sure if I'd call it flailing, but yes, singer is in fact scum caught.

[Oversoul]

I wasn't able to fully read this game since like page 50, but what happened with Espeonage?

More people should meander over to the TTH wagon. Singer should also put her vote on TTH if she wants me to legitimately believe she dislikes TTH. But seriously, why the hell are you voting Shadoweh?

[fferyllt]

Mastin you absolutely can't run up a town bloc and exclude the confirmed town who's days are numbered.

[mastin2]

the moment you vote for singer my brain goes kaboom and I start to think you are scum.

Tough. I'm town, walking deadwoman town at that. singer...isn't.

@Mastina, Thanks. We need to talk about GiF. He's town but I can't explain why. He should be in the block.

If you can give me 100% assurance that GIF is not scum, then I'll consider it. (It depends on his reads more than anything else.) I am dropping the scumread, though. I trust you there.

Speaking of which, updated readslist is coming in.

[mastin2]

Mastin you absolutely can't run up a town bloc and exclude the confirmed town who's days are numbered.

I can and have.

I have my conditions. Trust in my townbloc's members to all be town.

You don't fit that parameter. So you're not in.

[singersigner]

Shadoweh scum read is based on a few things:

1.

Her interactions with our slot:

From "agreeing" with Tammy in Post 391, to the tone of mentioning Zar in Post 486 (Empire touched on that a bit). The way she voted Bulb in Post 658 and then called our slot town when Empire replaced in seemed unnatural because if she was really switching her vote due to a town read on Empire, it should've come at the same time or before she bothered changing her vote.

2.

Stance on Boon not being outed:

Post 1173 and Post 1192. Not specifically a scum-tell, but noting because it feels like it's only optimal play for her, which could go either way.

3.

Connection to TTH:

Because we're scumreading both of them, this point really only makes a difference if either flip scum, but Post 1466 and Post 1653 look like she's specifically avoiding bussing. Her comments about not having a say about the first lynch but jumping onto the second one in Post 1653 is not coming from a town-mindset. I also already brought this up, but asking why there are no votes on my slot suggests that she wants votes to fall on us, which directly contradicts her aforementioned apathy with the first lynch. It really reads as trying to get people to focus on our suspicion rather than TTH's (who was the largest wagon at the time), supporting our scum read of both of them. (adding in that this mindset of not pushing any reads doesn't make sense coming from a team with GI and basically looks like coasting)

[fferyllt]

Mastin you absolutely can't run up a town bloc and exclude the confirmed town who's days are numbered.

I can and have.

I have my conditions. Trust in my townbloc's members to all be town.

You don't fit that parameter. So you're not in.

No. You and I talk out our differences and we figure out what we agree on.

I absolutely won't be marginalized. Get used to it.

[mastin2]

Right.
TTH is town.
Bulbazak is town.
Titus is town.

Vezok's town.
Tammy/Oversoul's town.
Shadoweh is town.
GIF I'm trusting to be town.

CDB is very likely town.
Gamma I just think is town.
Cheetory is town enough.

UT is vaguely town.
TSO is about here, as null.
Marquis goes here.
Aronis is about here.
Dan's down here.

Espeonage is a scumread.
DV is a scumread.
And singer is just scum.

About this, is where I'm at.

[Oversoul]

Shadoweh scum read is based on a few things:

1.

Her interactions with our slot:

From "agreeing" with Tammy in Post 391, to the tone of mentioning Zar in Post 486 (Empire touched on that a bit). The way she voted Bulb in Post 658 and then called our slot town when Empire replaced in seemed unnatural because if she was really switching her vote due to a town read on Empire, it should've come at the same time or before she bothered changing her vote.

2.

Stance on Boon not being outed:

Post 1173 and Post 1192. Not specifically a scum-tell, but noting because it feels like it's only optimal play for her, which could go either way.

3.

Connection to TTH:

Because we're scumreading both of them, this point really only makes a difference if either flip scum, but Post 1466 and Post 1653 look like she's specifically avoiding bussing. Her comments about not having a say about the first lynch but jumping onto the second one in Post 1653 is not coming from a town-mindset. I also already brought this up, but asking why there are no votes on my slot suggests that she wants votes to fall on us, which directly contradicts her aforementioned apathy with the first lynch. It really reads as trying to get people to focus on our suspicion rather than TTH's (who was the largest wagon at the time), supporting our scum read of both of them. (adding in that this mindset of not pushing any reads doesn't make sense coming from a team with GI and basically looks like coasting)

Was this post prompted by my post?

[Oversoul]

I don't think Mastin has ever read me as town when I am town. Huzzah. The stars have aligned.

[singersigner]

I was in the process of rewriting/paraphrasing additions from Regfan. I understand the irony of posting about TTH before the person I'm voting. It didn't stop me from going in the order it was in the PT.

[Titus]

Singer, Shadoweh is not happening. All you've been doing is doubtcasting town. Stop your vanity vote.


@Mastina, Would scum Marquis really admit to being the most annoying scum I have ever seen, knowing I was looking for patterns in the flail. Also tjis flail from Marquis matches more her townflail than YnB. YnB had an arrogance to them. So what my wagon is entirely town, you're not going to lynch me type vibe. Here, I see someome frustrated, confusedand working with people. Maybe its next level buddying but I doubt it.

[fferyllt]

Mastin, convince me tth is town. talk about it in concrete terms about her play, not just your interpretation of other players' stances on her. I'm not convinced she's scum but she has not looked all that town to me.

I disagree about DV.

You'll have to convince both me and nacho about singer. We both townread Empire's replace out.

Aside from putting AD a little further down the list, those are our major disagreements.

So, work with me on getting someone we agree is scum lynched, or convince me (and my team) I'm wrong on two of my townreads.

[fferyllt]

well, bulbazak too, but I'm not going to be able to read him in the amount of time I have most likely, so I'm not going to push him most likely.

[Titus]

@FFerylt, who would your townblock be?

[fferyllt]

My noncontroversial townreads are you, tammy/oversoul, and cheetory I think. Players I think are town and will work with to the extent the gamestate (and their reads) allow are GiF, CDB, Mastin, and Vezok. There are a couple other townreads, but right now it feels like we're playing this game in alternate universes and I think that reads agreement will be coincidental. Or I'm swimming against the game's current in townreading them and I expect them to be lynched when I'm dead unless the night game dictates otherwise.