Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[singersigner]

Sympathico is mind meld right?

Singer has been rehashing vanity wagons, complaining about the game statevthat makes no coherent sense, spending more time talking about people she will not lynch

and has no desire to work with anyone

. Espy at least tries rather than posting unless drivel that makes me want to be overly aggressive.

You're projecting and stating something as fact that has not even remotely been tested as true. No I'm not going around scrambling for a town block because I've really never felt the need to. I'm pretty confident that I won't get lynched today (at least not first because I've already stated my preference toward being second--see?? I'm working with people!) I said I'd compromise and I will. Saying I won't is just...making things up for the sake of making things up?

I also fail to see what's wrong with taking about who I won't lynch. Isn't that information just as good for the rest of town?

I'd actually really like to needle Mastin's pride a bit. The more sure she is that she's right about me being scum, the scummier I think she is for boasting about how good she is. Don't take it personally, though. Scum don't really have a choice but to be confident with a town that's imploding because then something might not go their way.

[Cheetory6]

How exactly is the town imploding? :/

[singersigner]

I just finished a game with scum-singer.

Doesn't look at all like her play in this game. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=60566

You have to factor replacing in and stuff and newbie vs what this game is.

To be honest, I was pretty confident I was emulating my most recent town meta that game. I'm obviously biased, though, so once we're dead it'd be nice to see what the difference you see are.

I say most recent, because I tend to gravitate towards whichever play I most recently was successful with. Gamma brought up Mafia of the Maidens, where I was town, and ended up salvaging a scum game I replaced into with people who were in the same game, by acting the same way.

I'm glad you have more than just Empire's replace out to read me, though admittedly it would only really matter if you weren't confirmed town, lol.

Preview Edit:
@Cheetory...I'd say how torn it is across the board with people not being able to agree on more than like two-three mutual reads, town or scum. The "town block" is the closest anyone's come to trying to find a happy medium, but for whatever reason it looks forced as scummy as fuck so I'm trying not to let that bias me. I'm generally dissatisfied with general sense of apathy by everyone but about 3-4 people with the exception of the person being wagoned the most heavily at any given time.

[mastin2]

I don't think Mastin has ever read me as town when I am town. Huzzah. The stars have aligned.

Blame Tammy.

@Mastina, Would scum Marquis really admit to being the most annoying scum I have ever seen, knowing I was looking for patterns in the flail. Also tjis flail from Marquis matches more her townflail than YnB. YnB had an arrogance to them. So what my wagon is entirely town, you're not going to lynch me type vibe. Here, I see someome frustrated, confusedand working with people. Maybe its next level buddying but I doubt it.

I put nothing past scuMarquis. Your stance on him and general skimming of his posts has lessened the ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh read somewhat. (I placed him above Aronis for good reason. He's literally the name JUST below null.)

Mastin, convince me tth is town.

No.

You were expecting something else?
Tough.

That is my one fundamental hard stance, above all the others. It is also the one that has the least conventional reasoning attached to it. I cannot explain it. It simply is, and is strong to the point that I will NOT give it up. Bulba I can explain. (Sorta.) Titus I can give a good idea on. (Mostly.) TTH I will not.

It is something that you accept on faith and faith alone should be enough. A fundamental, one-read-above-all-else, "trust me".
Kinda like how we've got a "trust me" on GIF and a "trust me" on Shadoweh. (Neither's in my townbloc, but both are in my SOLID town section off of that trust alone.) Trust is a currency I'm all too happy to exchange.

I don't need to give logic on TTH being town.
She is.
I'm saying she is.

And that should be enough.

Conftown be damned.
I cannot work with someone who won't accept TTH is town. That's the one truth. ONE. TRUTH. Above all else that I have in this game.
And if for some ungodly reason you don't understand this.
Then demand Nacho read my posts.
Call him forth.
Absolutely refuse to let him go, make him prioritize reading my posts over reading his own dang game.
Because there's not a chance in hell he doesn't know what I mean.

We both townread Empire's replace out.

And I continue to feel bad for saying this, but bluntly, no it freakin wasn't. It was a pile of absolute BS. I hate saying that. But it's true. It read as scum-doing-what-they-should-do-as-town, not as town-actually-doing it. Simple as that.

[Titus]

And here we go again, "no one's working together"...but she attacks the people working together

@FFery, I see similarities there. Maybe it's confbias but singer there really wante control there and Singer looks pissed because she's not in control here.

@Singer, If you intended to work with anyone you'd be reaching out, complaining less, and moving your vote off your vanity wagon.

[fferyllt]

@Mastin If nacho thinks there's any reason to try to work with you here once he's around and caught up today, I'll make the effort.

[Titus]

Post game Mastina you are going to have to explain how stubbornness works for you and not me.

[Marquis]

I put nothing past scuMarquis.

i can't decide whether i should be flattered offended or :|

[mastin2]

well, bulbazak too, but I'm not going to be able to read him in the amount of time I have most likely, so I'm not going to push him most likely.

Bulbazak's basically town because this is him, thinking for himself, having solid thoughts, directing things, planning things, analyzing things, and working with others, in contrast to when he's scum, posting weak content, not very much at the forefront, largely just blending in, and such.

...That is a HORRIBLE description. But basically, the stuff he's doing is highly town. Mollie via him as a proxy was pretty dang town (yes, I do get reads off of people via their teammates), there's thoughts from him that I find highly unlikely to come from scum, him aligning with me so much is something that generally comes from his townself not his scumself, basically, there's a ton of stuff that just piles up. It's nothing really specific. Just lots of things here and there that make him...well, just be town.

[fferyllt]

well, bulbazak too, but I'm not going to be able to read him in the amount of time I have most likely, so I'm not going to push him most likely.

Bulbazak's basically town because this is him, thinking for himself, having solid thoughts, directing things, planning things, analyzing things, and working with others, in contrast to when he's scum, posting weak content, not very much at the forefront, largely just blending in, and such.

...That is a HORRIBLE description. But basically, the stuff he's doing is highly town. Mollie via him as a proxy was pretty dang town (yes, I do get reads off of people via their teammates), there's thoughts from him that I find highly unlikely to come from scum, him aligning with me so much is something that generally comes from his townself not his scumself, basically, there's a ton of stuff that just piles up. It's nothing really specific. Just lots of things here and there that make him...well, just be town.

Mastin you modded ny 164. Do you think his play fit the picture you're painting?

[mastin2]

Why are you scum reading DV, Mastin?

Because everything about him screams Tales-him? (Including having Ceph as his backup. )

All of his stances seem like...just...so...well, scum-motivated. I also find it hard to digest that he'd have TTH suspicion that he'd push the way he has if he was town. His entire way of directing the flow seems like he's directing it away from scum and onto town.

[Marquis]

in other news this is me realizing i'm pretty much active lurking and kind of hating how i've devolved into uselessness in this game too!

i'll try to engage and track some reads for my memory so i actually feel like i know what's up here or whatever later this week, but right now i have other priorities!

[mastin2]

Can you walk me through why TTH is town holding my hand and talking to me like I'm 5?

Like you're 5, and I'm an adult?

Alright.

Because I said so.


(What, that's what my parents did to me. No explanation, just 'because we said so'.)

[singersigner]

I say most recent, because I tend to gravitate towards whichever play I most recently was successful with. Gamma brought up Mafia of the Maidens, where I was town, and ended up salvaging a scum game I replaced into with people who were in the same game, by acting the same way.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=22748

is the game I was emulating after Maiden, which references that fact.

Preview Edit:
@Titus...if it makes you feel any better, Mastin's stubbornness is just as annoying as yours!

Also, you call it a vanity wagon when it's literally the first position I've really been able to take all game, and something I haven't been able to communicate effectively until last night/today. I didn't want to "go with the crowd" until I got my bearings and was convinced that what I had to say/prove could wait. People seem content ignoring what I have to say about TTH/Shadoweh, so when you guys can come up with someone not me to lynch, I'm all ears.

@Mastin...I don't need control? Like I said, I'm pretty confident I won't get lynched either way, it's just a matter of being able find something other than TTH/Shadoweh that people would also be willing to compromise on.

[mastin2]

@bulba,

This is my one reach-out to you. If you want to convince me you're town or work with me in this game, then it will have to be without further posts that I interpret as sniping and discrediting. Talk about your reads, not my shortcomings.

Bulba is no more sniping nor discrediting you than I am.

[Titus]

@Mastina, I would find someone checking me when I'm obvtown scummy too. He's wrong but I get it. Is it just that he disagrees on TTH?

Still laughing at the response to Vezok.

@Singer, Shadoweh is not getting lynched, no one else scumreads her. You on the other hand are awfully arrogant for being the second wagon. There has to be some other position you can take.

[fferyllt]

@mastin

That is a true statement.

I'm not biting your head off about it because I'm townreading you and will continue to probably for my duration in the game.

[singersigner]

If that's what you think needs to happen.

unvote

vote: Espeonage

Question:
How do you feel about Shadoweh's assertion that I'm scummy for calling out Mastin/Bulb for being scum shortly after they called me scum?

[mastin2]

Post game Mastina you are going to have to explain how stubbornness works for you and not me.

Reputation, results, and frequency, mainly.

I invoke this level of stubbornness once in a blue moon.
...Okay, maybe twice or thrice in a blue moon, but still, fairly uncommon. You're known for it every game.
I have a reputation of doing it as town. You have a reputation of just being a plain stubborn person.
I produce results with my stubbornness; it's happened by now dozens of times and only been wrong once. You produce results, but stubbornness is not a fundamental aspect of it.

Basically, when you invoke stubbornness, it doesn't mean anything, but when I do...

people listen

. Or regret it later when they realize they should have. (A-la Tales.)

Mastin you modded ny 164. Do you think his play fit the picture you're painting?

My picture of Bulb is shaped by every game he's been in that I've encountered him in. From there to the mini where he was scum to both Hilarious Unbalanced games where he was town to that one Fire and Ice game. I don't have Bulba on my AP-level readscale yet where I can instaread him. I do have him at the Nacho-level where my read on him is at least 75% likely to be correct, given how well I've begun to understand him. In fact, given how little I interact with Nacho these days, I'd say that I'm closer to and more accurate with Bulbazak than with him.

And given this, he is town.

[singersigner]

Mastin could you provide examples of this stubbornness/accuracy?

[mastin2]

@mastin
That is a true statement.
I'm not biting your head off about it because I'm townreading you and will continue to probably for my duration in the game.

Don't apply the double-standard.

Either don't townread me or townread Bulba. Or at the least, admit it's null. If it's null from me, it's null from him.

[fferyllt]

My picture of Bulb is shaped by every game he's been in that I've encountered him in. From there to the mini where he was scum to both Hilarious Unbalanced games where he was town to that one Fire and Ice game. I don't have Bulba on my AP-level readscale yet where I can instaread him. I do have him at the Nacho-level where my read on him is at least 75% likely to be correct, given how well I've begun to understand him. In fact, given how little I interact with Nacho these days, I'd say that I'm closer to and more accurate with Bulbazak than with him.

And given this, he is town.

Contrary to what you may think, I don't hold my ability to read Bulba super high. I have mislynched him when he was town, and I've misread him when he's town but was concerned enough not to push his lynch early and let the game unfold. You were in both of those games as Calcifer. There have been a few other games, but those set the stage for me.

Anyway, although I'm glad he can be investigated by town, I'm not pushing his lynch right now.

The only reason I can even see for ever getting behind a singer lynch today is to force needed rethinks/resets (mine, yours or others). And in my case if a rethink is needed better the first lynch than the last. I doubt Nacho will agree with me about that given the strength of his townread.

There is no question about the Sangres alignment in this game. I do not understand why you're discounting us both on the only day we'll be here to talk with.

[fferyllt]

@mastin
That is a true statement.
I'm not biting your head off about it because I'm townreading you and will continue to probably for my duration in the game.

Don't apply the double-standard.

Either don't townread me or townread Bulba. Or at the least, admit it's null. If it's null from me, it's null from him.

doesn't work that way. it's not two apples. I understand your arrogance as a sometime-town thing. I don't have that confidence about bulba and I feel like mollie made a very direct attempt at discrediting me from afar.

[Untrod Tripod]

Why is UT getting away with so much scummy shit?

because I'm so town, dude

look at my face

[Untrod Tripod]

like

is this game a joke that everyone is playing on me

why are there NINETY SEVEN GODDAMN PAGES and no content

how is this even possible

windmill slam a goddamn lynch and move on

at this point, we're learning nothing but how insufferable mastin is and that singer wants to change up her game