Theme Test Market

[Nocmen]

I'm not sure if this has been done before, but it was a weird idea that came into my head the other day.

Mason Madness Mafia

(Name subject to much change shall it become a real game)
16 Player Game, including 4 Scum, 1 SK, and 11 Town roles (roles could be distributed, I didnt make any possible role setups yet because this is only an idea I wanted a few opinions on the actual them first).

Heres the catch though. There are 3-5 pairs of Masons that are randomly assigned once roles are sent out. These pairs can talk between each other during night, but do not know the identity of the other.

This grew from the idea of possible setups on a 9 hour plane ride the other day when I was wondering how fun it would be if the SK was a mason with a scum, but each thought their partner was a townie.

Could this work, or am I just filled with crazed thoughts that could not work?

[JDodge]

I had a similar idea for a Formula One-flavored mafia where each played would have a "teammate". Should be interesting to see.

EDIT: DAMNIT OLD MAID HAD SOMETHING SIMILAR.

I'm so "original"...

[Thok]

Random Idea I had, that I'm not sure I have time/the desire to work out so I'm releasing it into the public domain.

Random day Mafia

Instead of game play happening day 1, day 2, day 3, it happens day 1, day 5, day 7, day 8, day 12 etc (day number advancing pseudo-randomly). This idea is obviously paired with various variant forms of odd night and even night roles (so for example, a role that only works if the night is a multiple of 3, or if a cop who only investigates if the night is a prime).

I would expect that day number should be advanced by using something like dicerolls.

[NabakovNabakov]

@Adel: I love the idea of creating games to mess with players, but I wouldn't actually put them in the Open or or Normal queues. I would be pissed if I joined a supposedly open game and it turned out to be Adel's Rat Maze IV. A queue specifically for bastard or unique setups would be awesome though. People would be free to join, but only if they realize that all setups are highly experimental and probably unbalanced. A game like Health Insurance Mafia (my wacked out version) would also belong there. We could call the game forum Area 51!!

Thok, are you sure the days should be completely random to the Mod too? It would make a bit more sense if the mod were to decide the progress of days before and not tell anybody. It would probably help the balance a tad.

[Thok]

Thok, are you sure the days should be completely random to the Mod too? It would make a bit more sense if the mod were to decide the progress of days before and not tell anybody. It would probably help the balance a tad.

I can see it going either way. Nonrandom days means that mods have to try to control more details to handle balance (random days means that mods should focus more on average case scenarios to determine blaance)

[Nocmen]

I like the fact that roles could change based on the random order of days, but I dont think all of the roles should be based on the day #. Also, what about the possibility of a role that can change the day number (ex: chooses to move ahead 1-3 days each night).

I also don't agree with games that look like normal games but end up being something different. While themes are fun, sometimes I (and others) want to be in a normal game, where the theme is easily figured out (in normal games it is simple: there is none).

[Thok]

I also don't agree with games that look like normal games but end up being something different. While themes are fun, sometimes I (and others) want to be in a normal game, where the theme is easily figured out (in normal games it is simple: there is none).

If I ran this game, I would make this mechanic public knowledge, and use flavor that makes day behavior make sense.

(For flavor, I've considered something like people visiting a vacation home/conference [they don't vist these on regular intervals] or people waking from suspended animation [again, people are asleep for irregular intervals].)

[Nocmen]

I was more referring to the post NabakovNabakov pointed out, how Adel wanted to run a theme game but try to hide it with a flavor theme (just flavor, no theme), or have it a normal game.

[Kelly Chen]

Albert, I agree with JDodge, that mainly the town would be hurt by having secret voting. It's less information, less to talk about. It would probably get lurky.


Adel, I don't see how bastard mod games could be accepted on the open queue when the whole point of the open queue is that you know what you're signing up for.

Regarding the prisoner's dilemma: The whole point of the dilemma is that no matter what your partner does, you're better off betraying him. So you should see why I say that scum will just kill each other, especially if the scum cooperate to the point that the town might be endgameable.

[Yosarian2]

I got a question for Kelly, what would happen if the votes were to all be private in a given open setup game ?

Secret voting was done in survivor mafia, and it was one of the reasons that game was painfully slow and inactive. I don't suggest it.

[NabakovNabakov]

Give the scums unnightkillable GF's. It would prevent the game from being decided by cross-nightkills and make the days a bit more interesting. I have no idea how it would work out, but the mechanics I'm vaguely seeing are probably not even mafia at this point. It would be a great game to try out in the hypothetical Area 51.

[schismatized]

what about a

The Departed Mafia

? this idea popped into my head after watching it. this movie has a lot of potential to be a theme game. Im not sure on the particulars yet but you could have some sort of protown role that knows all the mafia. maybe he could communicate with a cop or someone at nite but would only be able to give a little info. you would also have to have a scum role that would be trying to flush out the "rat." Any thoughts?

[NabakovNabakov]

I actually half-dreamt a Departed setup. It would probably have a substantial Mafia, a leigion of interconnected cops, and the requisite townies. Each side would have a traitor who had a "handler" on the other side, this would be the only person they could communicate with.

Now, to preserve balance, the real innovation I thought up was a "cell phone" system. The cops and the scum would only be able to communicate at night by calling each other, and each power-role would have a phone number. When a power role is killed, their cell phone is taken, and the other side learns the phone's number and the number of any other phones that have called it. This would ease the outing of tratiors and such (and allow false or threatening calls to be made between the two sides).

And Kelly, before you say anything, it's probably horribly unbalanced or easily broken. It's just an idea.

[Adel]

The Departed/ Internal Affairs/ 無間道

All players alignments are "undetermined at the beginning of the game except for two townies and one scum. There would be 12 players.

original set-up as day 1 begins:

-player 1 is town

-player 2 is town and know player 1 is town and player 3 is either mafia or scum. He can pm
player 3 during the daytime.

-player 3 does not know if he is town or scum. He can pm player 2 during the night and player 4 during the day. If player 2 die first he will have the same alignment as player 2. If player 4 dies first he has the alignment opposite of player 4

-player 4 does not know if he is town or scum. He can pm player 3 during the night and player 5 during the day. If player 3 dies first he will have the same alignment as player 3. If player 5 dies first he has the alignment opposite of player 5.

...

-player 11 does not know if he is town or scum. He can pm player 10 during the night and player 12 during the day. If player 10 dies first he will have the same alignment as player 10. If player 12 dies first he has the alignment opposite of player 12.

-player 12 is mafia and knows that player 1 is town. He can pm player 11 during the night.


So there is a chain of dependency that runs from player 2 through to player 12. If a player whose alignment is undetermined dies then his alignment is randomly chosen. All players who know that they are mafia submit a choice for the NK. The target of the NK will be chosen by a clever mechanic that is unknown to all of the players. If no players know that they are mafia, but there are still players with "undetermined" something may or may not happen- town may win, someone may be randomly chosen, the players do not know.
When one of the players in the chain between players 2 and 12 dies, the chain connects again to fill in his place the moment the death scene is posted. So if player 4 is lynched, starting the following night player 5 will be able to PM player 3 and starting the next day player 3 will be able to PM player 5.

The town players will possibly win if all of the mafia are dead, and will definitely win if there are no players of "undetermined" alignment and all of the mafia are dead.

The "undetermined" players have undeterminedwin conditions.

The mafia wins if there are no players of "undetermined" or town alignment left alive.

The players not knowing all of the mechanics is part of the flavor.

[Guardian]

you know, people read this thread, so closed setup ideas...

[Adel]

Some mechanics are hidden, and theme games can also be open: it is the open games that cannot be themed.

[NabakovNabakov]

That setup is just bizzare. I read it twice and I'm still not sure how it works. I doubt it's really Mafia though. What does it have to do with The Departed anyway?

[Kelly Chen]

And Kelly, before you say anything, it's probably horribly unbalanced or easily broken. It's just an idea.

If it's broken or unbalanced, shouldn't I tell you why?

[Thok]

@Adel-if the first two people to die are player 5 and 6, what are there alignments? (More importantly, what are players 4 and 7 alignments?)

[Adel]

@Adel-if the first two people to die are player 5 and 6, what are there alignments? (More importantly, what are players 4 and 7 alignments?)

It would work like this:

1. player 5 dies. His alignment is randomly determined in secret. The mod flips a coin or whatever and gets "town" as the result.
2. player 4's alignment becomes mafia, and he is notified by PM. Player 6 becomes town, and is notified by PM. Player 4 can now PM player 6 during the day and player 6 can PM player 4 during the night. Players 4 and 6 now know each other's alignment.
3. Player 6 dies.
4. Player 7 becomes town and is notified by PM. Player 4 can now PM player 7 during the day and player 6 can PM player 7 during the night. Players 4 and 6 now know each other's alignment.

For balance I'd consider making play 2 a cop (with town, mafia, and inclusive being the investigation results), and maybe making player 12 a Godfather who yields an "inclusive" investigation result. Or just adding a 13th player who is a Godfather or a goon.

[Adel]

Oh and a day 1 mass claim would result in the 12th player getting killed but would not necessarily end the game.

[Nocmen]

I dont like the idea in general of having pro-town roles knowing for certian the identity of a scum. That, and Im not sure about the number of roles requiring certain actions to happen (it might dissuay players if they spend almsot all the game without having a faction to be on).

[Adel]

It would be like the movie though, and I think it would be interesting, the odds are better of a player ending up town, but they are not definite. A couple of savvy players should be able to choose their alignment during the course of play. The game may require banning disclosing who a players PM contacts are by making it a mod-killable offense.

[NabakovNabakov]

And Kelly, before you say anything, it's probably horribly unbalanced or easily broken. It's just an idea.

If it's broken or unbalanced, shouldn't I tell you why?

I guess you can, but I never really considered implementing the setup, so there wouldn't be much of a point (except to help me learn the way of the balance)

[Aimee]

Sorry for being a n00b, but are we allowed to reserve themes?

I have some good themes I would like to run probably throughout 2008, and would be peeved if I didn't say anything and they were stolen. At the same time I wouldn't want to reserve themes if that wasn't allowed.

Pretty sure I'm just being stupid.