Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[mastin2]

Fferylt, now that Thor and Llmarble are dead could you have them give their opinions on this game? Specifically, CDB, UT, TellTale, and Mastin?

Odd choices given that Thor probably has only some snarky comment in regards to me that boiled down means "I have nothing" and I don't think I've ever played with Llmarble so I'd be pretty dang surprised if he gave some valuable insight on his first go-around.

[vezokpiraka]

@Bulba: TTH wagon wasn't happening. There was no reason to keep my vote there when the deadline was well away. I wanted to push some pressure on the lurkers and aronis was the one I chose. I'm still nullreading him. Even though you were a scumread I would expect you to leave a vote on a lurky scum in the beginning just to throw of VCA or something.

Mostly I wanted to pressure aronis to see how he would react so I could sort him into town or scum and didn't really care who helped build up the pressure.

[Espeonage]

Assignments, sickness and more progressed other games are taking up my time. Will get to this game properly in the soon(trademark)

[Gammagooey]

i have read a lot of things. so many things. PLEASE READ THIS I DON'T MAKE FUCKHUGE POSTS WITHOUT DAMN GOOD REASONS. I'll try to make it readable.

SINGER READ

Because of the sheer number of posts in this game there's still a lot left out. If you're town reading singer or her predecessors say what the posts are and the reasoning and I'll give you my opinion on that too.

Again, with this notion that everyone on this wagon is trying to quicklynch TTH.
It's baffling to me that you're acting like this is anything but a pressurewagon.

To be honest, it's starting to look like the resistance to it is scum motivated, because scum think/know that's the

right way

to react to a wagon like that one. For clarification of how I'm describing "that one": quick and with limited interactions before doing so.

This might've been addressed already, but according to my team (Regfan), there's no role that justifies visiting one of the more universally town-read people in the game that can be proven the next day, etc. with regards to TTH. (Mina) It looks more like he's trying to save himself another day, and based on how many actions we can assume scum have, could use those to lie.

These two posts read as pretty off together. I get that what singer is saying in the first post is that the 'correct' play for someone with a confirmable role is to back the hell off. But if she genuinely thinks TTH is scum, despite the idea of that being fine, I have a really hard time seeing her completely ignore the more obvious conclusion of "scum don't want to bus" when I think that's would have been an immediate thought if she thought TTH was going to flip scum.

I understand that singer stated that she just wanted a lynch - but the way she's thinking doesn't look town at all given that she doesn't seem to actually believe that TTH is likely to flip scum, and she really isn't connecting the future flip of someone she wants lynched to her other reads and opinions.
------------

That being said, I'm not going to fight for a lynch, as I hardly ever do on D1, seeing as I take the UT approach of WE DON'T KNOW ANYTHING! I've stated my preferences, and will vote as soon as I read the last ten pages, and then we'll go from there! Thanks for being patient with me guez! <3

Oh! Aaaaand. Verdict is still out on Titus. I

really did find inconsistencies

with her, but her latest post seems to explain it the best and pretty genuine, so my waffly read of her thus far is put in the do-not-touch-right-now pile.

@Titus...do you often rely on your inflated sense of authority to control the direction of the game? <snip>

Not gunna lie

, it vaguely reads as scum who's losing control and is trying to bully people into "the right way."

I think this type of unprompted self-justification is more likely to be coming from scum trying to reinforce that they're doing things in a town way.
-----------------

Oh my gosh! You're so fuckin right! How could I have possibly missed that on my phone! Wow must be scumzorz! Not because I haven't already projected exactly how I've felt about her! But because I'm so nice, let me quote it again for you!

You caught me! You were calling me scum so I denounced the scum meta in my head while proving you should realize how town I am in the thread. Oops!

I really dislike the biting sarcasm when people are attacking her, and pretty strongly feel that reactions of that sort are more likely to be coming from scum trying to mock other player's points against them and make their reasoning look as bad and as possible.
-----------------

Because you were being pretty cheeky about the whole meta thing and I don't really trust a cheeky Gamma.

That, and you're calling me scum so I needed to see how wrong you're willing to be.

Calling me cheeky when I am as either alignment is whatever, although I think calling my tiny meta post about her "cheeky" is really pushing it. But the bolded part is just completely irrelevant nonsense added to her other reason to make it look better. "How wrong I'm willing to be" has absolutely nothing to do with me trying to extract an actual read on myself from singer.

As I said earlier I also really dislike that singer was constantly bringing up other people's town reads on her and the tiny bit of meta I brought up with her when I think it's pretty clear that the purpose of my conversation with her from my perspective was to get information from her, not to just insist that she's scum.
------------------

Oh and after you guys inevitably realize that this slot is town, we're bane'ing Gamma. No exceptions (assuming my read-through of this thread or my teammates don't change my mind).

*sigh* Did you fuckers really bane Bulbazak over Gamma while I was one?

I don't actually have much to say about Zar and Empire's posts, the above looks a lot more like posturing than any actual conviction in reading me, especially the second quote after I had actually started posting a decent amount of content and soon after empire backs off on his read on me as well. Zar did seem like he was relying really heavily on teammate's opinions but I think that singer's posts are a lot more clearly indicative of a scum mindset.

[DeasVail]

DV, it would be great if you could share a few details of that Marquis read now. TIA

Why are you asking me?

I've also explained my Marquis read already.

And why is ActionDan in the townish section of your reads?

i really feel like i should want to make a case but 1) lazy 2) when i made cases as scum in doa they were all right and so maybe that means if i make a case here it'll just add to the downward spiral of my read accuracy with how much more wrong i'm growing to feel about this and

how do you make a case when you don't even know if you believe in it anymore

how do you play when you have literally have no experience you can remember of being both town AND right about something

how do you find the time to get away from mafia and just hope everything will be okay again when you get back

Hey dude. I used to stress so much about being wrong in mafia. I'd oscillate between under-confidence that would completely debilitate the possibility of me having any impact on the game, and over-confidence that I wouldn't be able to maintain (I think this still happens to me tbh). When I start feeling this, I try to tell myself that it's a game that's meant to be fun and if I'm hilariously wrong then it will be more amusing than anything else! Not sure if this will be any help but it's how I try to think about things at least.

Oh, and you completely had me pegged in Smalltown, and were in fact the only one to get close to lynching me! That's got to count for something!

As for your out-of-mafia stuff, I just hope that gets better.

--

Mastin, please answer my question to you.

Gamma, I actually think your points sound decent, but I still think she's town for other reasons. It might be a while before I make a full defence of her, but I like regfan's continued input on the game despite having the excuse of Empire replacing out to stop following it. And reading her play recently has given me the impression of town, along with her decision to vote for ActionDan at the time that she did. Ffery-team's townread is also a factor for me, but I will re-read her at some point.

[Gammagooey]

also, this is my reiterated opinion on espeonage.

it's easy to look at him and say 'sure he could be scum'. I think that's what a lot of people are doing. I think everyone knows that it's likely that given the quality of players in this game that at least one scum will get townread early on, but because there haven't been any flipped scum yet they're fine with just getting rid of someone they think hasn't done much without putting a lot of effort into actually reading him, especially given that he's already claimed and become a "low-risk" option for the lynch.

I think esp's mindset this game is way more likely to be coming from town than scum given his stances on Tammy and that he's fine with following TTH onto Marquis's wagon instead of coming up with his own wagoning reasons when even just going over TTH's reasons in more detail would make him more likely to be read as town. I'm maybe more confident in this than I should be, but I absolutely don't want his wagon to gradually turn into a town lynch from other players' apathy in reading him. I personally disagree with ActionDan's read and case on him (I think pretty much everything he brought up could easily be coming from town as well as scum), but I'd really like for people to read through esp's iso and give some more detailed opinions of him theirselves.

[Gammagooey]

Gamma, I actually think your points sound decent, but I still think she's town for other reasons. It might be a while before I make a full defence of her, but I like regfan's continued input on the game despite having the excuse of Empire replacing out to stop following it. And reading her play recently has given me the impression of town, along with her decision to vote for ActionDan at the time that she did. Ffery-team's townread is also a factor for me, but I will re-read her at some point.

every time people use effort to say someone's town in team mafia i die a little on the inside.
what post #s gave you the town impression?

[Gammagooey]

Post 1749 shows where I initially respected the direction you were taking with Bulb, but I never commented on it fully during my catchup. I'll do that on a computer tomorrow.

get around to doing this sometime today please btw singer

[singersigner]

I wasn't calling your meta post cheeky (nor did I even imply I was), I was calling our conversation cheeky. I didn't trust your line of questioning because I wasn't sure if it came from a town mindset or scum mindset and thought you were trying to set me up. I brought up people who knew my town meta because you had failed to convince me you weren't taking that into account when you brought it up in the first place.

Re biting sarcasm...once again, you're right! I'm going to use everything I know how to discredit the people who are wrong about me and appeal to the people who are right. Again, I fail to see how you think that's alignment indicative, much less leaning scum.

I'm not getting lynched today, Gamma, and I'm really fucking annoyed you're still pressing this. Does it tell you anything that not even my bigger supporters of singerscum have acknowledged your concerns about me? I really don't have the energy to fight you anymore on this so if you want to keep pushing my lynch I'll let you keep failing.

That being said, gun to your head, who're my scum buddies?

[singersigner]

Post 1749 shows where I initially respected the direction you were taking with Bulb, but I never commented on it fully during my catchup. I'll do that on a computer tomorrow.

get around to doing this sometime today please btw singer

Yeah I forgot about this. I'll get to it next time I'm at a computer.

[Gammagooey]

I'm not getting lynched today, Gamma, and I'm really fucking annoyed you're still pressing this. Does it tell you anything that not even my bigger supporters of singerscum have acknowledged your concerns about me?

That being said, gun to your head, who're my scum buddies?

Not really considering that this is really the first time I've actually gone into a bunch of detail on why I think you're scum and that was around 3 hours ago.

atm i'd probably go cheetory+shadoweh+actiondan.

[Marquis]

i was not drunk but i was also not completely great

i don't know yet if i want to replace out or not. i've been considering it because this game has been giving me so much fucking stress with how much more horrible-at-mafia it's making me feel.

[Marquis]

sorry for the complaining. i really really want to try and sort things out but if i do it probably won't be right now. only thoughts i can even muster up from this page are that dv is a <3 bae <3 and that everyone feels like they're tryharding this game. (...but at least they're actually succeeding)

[Marquis]

mostly right now i'm just trying to think through the tth stuff and how much sense it makes or if i'm just false dichotomy-ing or whatever.

[hitogoroshi]

VC 61 (Major Day 1, VC 23)

(6)

Espeonage:

ChannelDelibird, vezorpiraka, Cheetory6, Untrod Tripod, ActionDan, Aronis [L-4]
(3)

singersigner:

Gammagooey, Bulbazak, Titus
(2)

TellTaleHeart:

Oversoul, Marquis
(2)

Marquis:

TellTaleHeart, Espeonage
(2)

ActionDan:

DeasVail, singersigner
(1)

ChannelDelibird:

Shadoweh

(3)

Not Voting:

T S O, GuyInFreezer, mastin2

With 19 votes in play, it takes 10 to lynch. Deadline is Saturday, April 25th, at 9PM CST.

Major Day One Deadline

(expired on 2015-04-25 20:00:00)

Oversoul is V/LA until April 18th.

[fferyllt]

a team mafia game is kind of a weird place to have an existential crisis.

[Oversoul]

Fferylt, now that Thor and Llmarble are dead could you have them give their opinions on this game? Specifically, CDB, UT, TellTale, and Mastin?

Odd choices given that Thor probably has only some snarky comment in regards to me that boiled down means "I have nothing" and I don't think I've ever played with Llmarble so I'd be pretty dang surprised if he gave some valuable insight on his first go-around.

Are you saying that only people who are familiar with your playstyle can analyze your posts?

Fferylt, why is it a weird place to have an existential crisis? I don't think people "plan" on having crises.
Also, get your teammates to comment on the people I singled out in this quoted post?

[Marquis]

existential crisis sounds so seventeen dramatic

it's more like a "i should have more strong townreads by now besides the conftown the way-too-easy-always-taken-for-granted townread and the guy who killed me as sk to win and i don't even know if half of those and my one mild scumread are right because i keep fucking up my reads as both town and scum lately" crisis

[fferyllt]

Fferylt, why is it a weird place to have an existential crisis? I don't think people "plan" on having crises.

Maybe I should have added "out loud", but w/e.

Also, get your teammates to comment on the people I singled out in this quoted post?

I've asked. llamarble mentioned being busy for a couple days in his last post in our team thread. Thor might have something to say sooner.

[Marquis]

right now i'm thinking of replacing out but i also really really want to be a part of this game and be in that kind of position and mental state to actually contribute positively for a win. my team took a chance on letting me in to their secret circle of coolness and i don't want to let them down, not to mention they're relying on me as a gateway to the new site and players meta or whatever.

i will "recover" from this, but it'll take some time. not a long time, but i think i can pull myself out of this slump before day ends and actually get into it and get the ball rolling here.

also if there was some sort of pause button i could hit for this game that'd probably make everything substantially easier too. i just realized we're on 106 pages and it still doesn't feel like a serious lynch has risen up. esp is there but the tone of everything right now just feels more like a "eh why not" pressure thing, like we've only started into the idea of wagons but not really come anywhere close to getting serious about lynching yet.

[Marquis]

Maybe I should have added "out loud", but w/e.

i honestly don't see scum!me being this publically vulnerable. as scum, i've noticed i like to pretend things aren't affecting me at all. that's something about my meta that hasn't changed and i don't think i'll ever have the fortitude to completely shift away from.

[fferyllt]

I'm not scumreading you for it, but it feels off. Now you're complaining about the thread being long and low on game-moving content, but you're arguably part of the problem the last few days.

[fferyllt]

I'm going to stop, because I don't want you to take this as pressure to replace out. It's not.

[Marquis]

:/

besides my recent downward spiral, i tried really hard to not care about being somewhere between bad and somewhat decent at mafia. having an admittedly above average scumgame was fine on its own, until there were people relying on me to be good for their sakes, and do it as town too.

i just don't want to be wrong again and have it keep trailing me, because if i fuck up big time here where it matters most i'm going to hate myself for it. i want to be able to look back on this game as one where i didn't do the whole hard-defend/tunnel scum/town and be accurate in the things that matter.

i know this isn't really a response to what you said. but i think i need to at least try and get the point across as to why i'm looking this whiny and bitchy right now. i need to be

good

and good

now

but i have no idea how to even replicate how i used to get decent reads as town. i know i can try to start with PoE and i was kind of wanting to switch with one of my teammates earlier into a smaller game where i can be more sure but it'll be impossible for them to get into this game because the game is huge and they're so busy and prob haven't even read the first five pages yet (which i in no way blame them for - zach in case you're actually reading this now it's fine, or i'll be fine).

[Marquis]

and for why "out loud" it shouldn't be such a major concern unless i replace out that i would need to take it to the pt just for them to probably unnecessarily worry about it.