White Flag Mafia [TM2015] (Game Over)

[Cheery Dog]

I don't even need to claim tokens. I'm just going to outright say I'd have swapped out of a scum role by now.

I can say exactly the same thing (and it's provable). Would you say that's a strong argument for me being town?

Please prove it then.

[Psyche]

my scum meta is in fact to kick ass and take names

So, that's kicing your own arse and then taking your name?

I know you think this response sounds clever, but it's not.

[Psyche]

I really want to play this game. I really do. I finally have a lot of everything figured out. I have my confidence!
And it always keeps looking as if I only need one more day before I'm free again. I don't feel like just throwing this chance away...

[Equinox]

Vote Count 2.11

Cogito Ergo Sum (4) - Ankamius, ika, Antihero, BlueBloodedToffee
Psyche (2) - Zachrulez, Regfan
Ankamius (1) - Cogito Ergo Sum
ika (1) - theelkspeaks
Regfan (1) - Cheery Dog

Not Voting (2) - Psyche, Tammy

With 11 alive, it will take 6 to lynch.

The deadline is Saturday, April 25, 2015, at 4:30 PM EDT (UTC-4), which is in (expired on 2015-04-25 16:30:00).

Moderator Comments

Tammy is V/LA until April 20.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

It justifies your jump onto the Aero wagon if you scum read him for longer than what you actually did.

I don't need to make up anything to justify my jump onto the Aerowagon because there was a genuinely solid case on him.

IN FACT, in Post 217 you actually go out of your way to shoot down whatever point regfan made on aero at the time.

Regfan asked me to comment on it. I acknowledged the validity of his points against Aeronaut, although I didn't find it as convincing as the case against Cheery Dog.

Context is key. In Day 1 I spend the majority of my time trying to work together with Regfan and 'marble to find three good suspects. That context alone should make it obvious that I thought Aeronaut was a genuine suspect long before I voted him. It also applies to the silly point Antihero made about me asking Regfan why he had a town read on tth.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

What changed in the span of 48 hours?

Ankamius as a solid #3 suspect. I wanted a solid back-up plan in case one of Cheery Dog/Aeronaut flipped town and I feel like I have that now.

There. Easy-peasy. I said it explicitly Day 1.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't need to make up anything to justify my jump onto the Aerowagon because there was a genuinely solid case on him.

A case which you never really engaged with.

Context is key. In Day 1 I spend the majority of my time trying to work together with Regfan and 'marble to find three good suspects. That context alone should make it obvious that I thought Aeronaut was a genuine suspect long before I voted him. It also applies to the silly point Antihero made about me asking Regfan why he had a town read on tth.

No.

Just because you were trying to work with other people that doesn't absolve your responsibility of joining the Aero wagon. It also doesn't mean you can justify it by saying 'Regfan and Llamarble thought Aero was scum and they had a good case so I went along with it'.

I showed you in your ISO that it was not obvious that you suspected Aero.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Still not sold on CES being scum but admit that I don't like him saying he found Aero scummier before Ank in Post 839 given his response to me in Post 217 about Aero while stating a scum read on Ank in Post 145.

What I post on page 6, isn't necessarily very serious. Certainly, looking back, I realize that my progression on Aero happened mostly out of thread but I can't take the notion that I'd be making this up very seriously.

Reading the above two posts as p genuine, specifically the "I'm not a good team player" admission behind not outing team-reads and while it's super annoying and wrong I don't think he'd be attempting to use BoP on me at this point as scum especially when it's p fucking obvious that I'm not going to be mslynched here, think he'd instead be focusing on pushing someone that would have a legit chance of being lynched over him. STILL want reads and thoughts in more depth from him but really not feeling good about my vote on him anymore and think I need to step back here.

I agree that the "I'm not a good team player" admission but it also doesn't really relate to his alignment all that much? The BoP thing all feels like a bunch of WIFOM to me - CheeryDogscum would most want to look town here rather than anything else.

It's worth looking back at his ikavote and seeing that he never explained it, didn't push it even as ika did become the #2 wagon and dropped it Today with a comment that was possibly even vaguer than no explanation.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I showed you in your ISO that it was not obvious that you suspected Aero.

I really don't care. I play to lynch scum and I felt Aero gave us the best odds of hitting scum at the end of D1. I'm not going through imaginary hoops to justify my push ahead of time or take a backseat today because we didn't hit scum Yesterday.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I don't see scum!CD thinking he'd be able to get away with that reasoning at all and would know I'm not getting ML'ed here but Zar thinks scum always "push against the grain" to seem town so he's not reading it as a town-tell at all.

Yarr, that's what I was thinking. It feels a bit unintuitive but it's unquestionably a thing.

Vote: Cheery Dog

Feel better about this vote now, especially after looking back at the ikastuff.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I will now give the promised response to Antihero's post!

>Post 128, psyche's being "open" about something apparently doesn't float w/ cheery dog and the token. lol

'Marble was voting Psyche for weak reasons (he conceded as much later) which I pointed out.

>he's been HAMMERING on the same people over and over and over this game. wait for it... "but anti, you've been doing the same thing." yes, yes i have. however, i cannot boast 50 relatively chunky posts (so it's not like he just hasn't been here like i haven't). and the reasoning behind the rabid ankamius push is disappointingly anemic and reads on literally ANYONE else in the game just simply don't exist. the reasoning on cheery can pretty much be distilled to "he's more likely to be scum b/c of token" which is a really easy argument to shove and it's a really conservative move. same thing for ank. he's not an especially high risk push here, so it's really convenient that the "scumreads" fall on these two players. the third fell on the em player who already flipped town, so there's that too.

I was pushing Cheery Dog before he even admitted to having a token and he's looking really likely to be scum. But yes, I have been focusing on a few people because I've been playing this game with the goal of finding the scum D1 and getting them lynched. I know I'm capable of it, especially given the ability to discuss it with Regfan and 'marble. I'm not going to bother writing up a list of town reads and justifying them because that's not going to win me the game. If you'd bother reading my discussions with Regfan and 'marble, I think most of them should be obvious anyway.

>the whole "i'm getting nk'd" routine is an old trick and it ain't foolin' me Post 608 especially given that he has no reason to be nk'd. it's overplayed.

Matias also thought there was no reason I'd be nightkilled last Team Mafia even after I got nightkilled Night 2. Regfan and 'marble are certainly the obvious targets but there are definitely situations in which I would get nightkilled, one of which I was specifically talking about.

It feels good to have fully working internet and a keyboard again!

[Cheery Dog]

I just went back to check that statement and found this (last line is the important bit, but I'm nt going to crop it on my phone)

There should be at least some token discussion up in here (Think it'll be useful now if not will certainly be later in this game/tournament). I used two for town here and wasn't even the biggest hog in our team, Empire took three. Want to know where/how other teams used their tokens.

We can do that later. I'd rather do some good ol'-fashioned RVSing first.

Cheery Dogread was mostly an instinctual response to his opening post's lack of anything. His second post is probably worse, although I initially skimmed over it. The token angle did come to mind but that's not based on much. You should join the wagon, Regfan, you know what happened when you went off on your own last time D1.

This is just weird given that regfan started off this day saying the same thing.
As of now I'm making it as possible scum together.

[Antihero]

Are you expecting him to have done stuff or not, these posts in a row have a ounce of contradiction.

...no, not really

in 893, i had assumed marquis wasn't keeping up at all, thus the call for action

zach revealed in 894 he had been keeping up with the game

in 895, i then responded with "what the fuck, how could he let you scumread me?" this is because marquis SHOULD be familiar enough w/ the distinction between my scum and town meta.

so... where's the reading comprehension breakdown?

[Zachrulez]

Are you expecting him to have done stuff or not, these posts in a row have a ounce of contradiction.

...no, not really

in 893, i had assumed marquis wasn't keeping up at all, thus the call for action

zach revealed in 894 he had been keeping up with the game

in 895, i then responded with "what the fuck, how could he let you scumread me?" this is because marquis SHOULD be familiar enough w/ the distinction between my scum and town meta.

so... where's the reading comprehension breakdown?

I revealed that Marquis had observed he thought ika was town, and it wasn't breaking news in 894. I mentioned the read in 747 as well but you apparently didn't read that post. Marquis having bits and pieces of the game doesn't equate to him reading the game fully or being caught up in everything in the game.

I am only really depending on the ika read because I don't really have one of my own that I'd be confident in, but I can believe that Ika would be an easy mislynch if town.

[Zachrulez]

But seriously Anti, I think you really need to read some of my scum games. Then you can apologize for ever suspecting me here.

[Zachrulez]

And he confirmed what I already pretty much said. He only skimmed the game and commented on the easiest of reads.

He's been pretty swamped, so he hasn't been able to give me any of the input I asked for yet.

He's also not read anything for the past week or two or so. (Note your real contribution to the game only started recently.) The read progression on you at this point is all me, and some of Sotty making drive by observations.

[Zachrulez]

He just isoed you Anti. He got town read.

[Zachrulez]

So there ya go.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm consulting my team on CES and the CES wagon. I'm really unsure on him and I'm hoping they can push me the right way.

How did this go, Zach?

[Zachrulez]

Jason gave me an observation, but generally not well.

Hoping I get some more regarding that over the weekend.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I hatehatehate his comment about one slot in his scumlist being town making the rest more likely. Nothing about that post looked town to me.

A friendly reminder to the people on the wagon that you're sharing it with this scumbag. One slot in my scumlist being town does make the rest more likely scum. That's how probability works. I'm not going to suddenly stop trusting my scumhunting process; being wrong occasionally is just part of the game.

This is just weird given that regfan started off this day saying the same thing.

I'm not even fully sure what point you're making, Cheery Dog, but the post you quoted was in response to Regfan's first post.

[ika]

you understand though CES that im hard reading ank as town?

like your post is fearmongering if anything

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

It's not fearmongering. That is literally the only thing Ank has said to support his vote on me. Cheery is even worse in that he just simply didn't support his vote on you one iota; and his Regfanvote isn't that much better. How many times am I going to have to point this out before I get my scum lynches?

[ika]

It's not fearmongering. That is literally the only thing Ank has said to support his vote on me. Cheery is even worse in that he just simply didn't support his vote on you one iota; and his Regfanvote isn't that much better. How many times am I going to have to point this out before I get my scum lynches?

How come you only have those 2 as scum read when there are 3 scum members then?

Here lets play a small game: pretend for a moment that ank is confirmed town (NK or lynched) how does that affect your reads? Like who would be scum after ank if it was disproven?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

How come you only have those 2 as scum read when there are 3 scum members then?

Even when I had 3 strong scum reads, I wasn't expecting all three of them to be scum. I'm perfectly happy taking advantage of the fact that we only need to lynch 2 scum to win!

Psyche is third most likely, just by PoE, but if he's going to continue playing like this, he's not going to win as scum anyway, so I see very little reason to care about him at this point.