8:4 Vanilla Nightless [TM2015] - GAME OVER

[wgeurts]

ABR, come back and give your thoughts.
Reprove you're town to me.

[ZZZX]

ZZZX, if we end up lynching kagami and she flips town I'm going to push you to the fudge ground.

I dont frankly care about your opinion.

The town blok is not made to be broken by a single scum's opinion

[Metal Sonic]

No way ICE hard bussed Sotty.

Spoiler: SLAY

Sonic's Weekend edition special

So I've given you guys a sneak peek of my areas of concern with regard to GreyICE earlier today.

Spoiler: #556

There are a couple of other inconsistencies in the game that will cause you distress when I point them out.

1. GreyICE was hard championing the Sotty wagon earlier today. Now, he has taken a back seat, and you have taken lead on this front, effectively pushing it for him.

2.

Seraphim (4) - Metal Sonic, Sotty7, Albert B. Rampage, GreyICE

Not only is the Sotty wagon gone, GreyICE was swift to sheep you (and me) on the Seraphim wagon, abandoning his bloodlust for Sotty. With this naked vote:

Vote: Seraphim

3.

G Ice, actually, I'd like you to tell me why Hoopla isn't a great lynch right now. It seems to me that she is.

He never actually responded to this. However, many of his posts prior to your call-out on #336 were lauds and praises for Hoopla's "town" analysis.

Firstly, let me explain my Sotty scumread. For me, it is based on poor reactions to jabs that I have observed in response to various players, including GreyICE.

Spoiler: Something old

I've been checking the thread all day but wasn't posting because I should do a long one at the com.

Just came in to report that the above post was extremely scummy for the above reasons:

1. Not denying that GreyICE's claim is absurd and/or not denying that her own slot is scum.
A town response would be either to dismiss GreYICE or because of the moral right that one has received a town PM, thus does not see the need to answer slanderous accusations. Sotty7 is going in-between, by discrediting GreyICE, while doing so in an indirect manner to suggest imposition and avoid conflict.

2. Accusatory instead of content
"I think that GreyICE"... In response to a push. Instead of providing content on other players or making a stand, Sotty's response was to attack GreyICE ad-hominem rather than something built in logic and/or ignoring the libelous arguments against herself. In no manner is any indication made of GreyICE's conclusion being called out right or wrong -- avoiding the topic of alignment altogether.


I wish I could post more but it's tough on a phone. Made this coherent and concise as possible.

Spoiler: Post of the day 3

So, a thousand or so words in and I haven't actually seen decent analysis or scumhunting from your slot. Okay, I have no idea how Sotty plays. I have never played with her before, no meta, and I have never heard of this player until I have joined this game.

But. A lack of scumhunting. Not trying to find out players' alignments. That's something to look out for, eh?

Okay, so anyway GreyICE was against Sotty because of the escapade with the "tokens" argument, which after my push for him to articulate his argument clearly in prose, was fundamentally wrong. Insofar I have agreed with his mafia theory, but that theory he did not apply specifically to the game in a logical manner. Therefore, GreyICE's initial reasons for scumreading Sotty were convoluted.

Spoiler: Not convincing enough?

Let's take another look for when GreyICE self-contradicts with regard to his read on Sotty.

sotty is apparently pathetic and the worst liar ever. And is a legendary scum player in the next post.

And another one:

This, dear class, is a textbook example of a self-contradiction. Distressingly, there are possible scum motivations for such a contradiction, which is regretful to hear from GreyICE.

(Okay, not in regard to Sotty, but Hoopla interactions are relevant too...)

Then later, I observed that GreyICE was no longer hard pushing Sotty; ABR took over the lead instead. Assume GreyICE scum. ABR would do the tough work of getting Sotty lynched, but GreyICE gets the easy part and a part of the town cred, potentially enabling him to survive for days. Not only that, in the future ABR will be pressured (Burden of Proficiency) to be hunting scum -- GreyICE will just sheep "whoever ABR votes". With a mislynch, ABR will be responsible, but with a successful scum lynch, GreyICE will be rewarded based on Vote Count Analysis (VCA). Tsk, GreyICE isn't ABR's lackey, it's the other way around!


Another perspective this can take is that GreyICE-scum's 'false push' had gone too fast. He was only intending to put pressure on Sotty early game to distance, or perhaps get some towncred if she flipped later in the game. To his horror, the bloodlust for Sotty was much larger than he had expected, therefore attempts were made to slow down the wagon -- we all have been briefed about how every scum lynch gives us another mislynch.

Then, we have this:

GreyICE is a weird one for me. His attacks on me all game have been shitty but when he actually sits back and details things from a whole game preservative I can kinda understand where he is coming from.

Sotty's becomes more lax on GreyICE. No longer going heads-to-heads. Of course, given my theory that they are both scum, some things can be left unsaid in their public conversations in the thread. I have highlighted earlier her preference to call me out on my Sotty vote, yet conveniently overlooked GreyICE's obvious "appeasement of ABR"; simply omitting his scummy actions and hoping nobody sees them. HELLO, I SEE THEM.


There's also this very peculiar post that can be left to your own interpretation:

Wait, why are we on a wagon with Sotty

Why is Sotty even on this wagon? The reasoning isn't even paper thin, unless you're buying tissue paper.

I have the sort of lack of understanding of this game that is preferably solved by corpses. A pile of very specific corpses.

Let's come to the point of their mutual townreads on Hoopla. GreyICE's townread of Hoopla has already been pointed out by many to be, what I'd call "not legit". Incidentally, so has Sotty's townread on Hoopla. And it's not like the entire game is scumreading Hoopla because of these two players townreading Hoopla -- we genuinely see Hoopla as scum independently of their reads. So, how do these mysterious Hoopla townreads come about? Why are Sotty and GreyICE defending the same player with dubious methodologies? Aren't they supposedly at loggerheads with each other? Apparently not, as #605 shows...

Sorry I'm lynching you for the wrong reasons, scumbag.

I apologize that I caught you for the wrong reasons

one of the best scum tells in the whole wide world is when someone starts bitching that you're wagoning them for the "wrong reasons".

Of course you caught her for the wrong reasons! It's a screwed up, convoluted, calculated bus, and if GreyICE thinks that Sotty's lynch is going to win him a spot at Town Block 2015, I, as administrator, strip him of this privilege.

Conclusion

GreyICE's reasoning for his initial Sotty push was indeed for the 'wrong' reasons, and these only became apparent when I obliged him to write a longer paragraph detailing his thought processes. His actions after the wagon has started indicate a laid-back approach, as if he was expecting a large reward (town-cred) in return for his Sotty "push" -- the lack of true conviction in wanting a real scum lynched as compared to attempts receive the towncred is shown. Finally, both Sotty's and GreyICE's interactions and trajectories with regard to Hoopla are twisted, baffling, and bewildering, suggesting that they are scum together while performing an intricate strategy.

[Metal Sonic]

fuck

[ZZZX]

ABR, come back and give your thoughts.
Reprove you're town to me.

DO YOU SEE THIS SHIT LOL

"YOU TWO NOW ARE MY SCUM READS AND MUST DIE, hey scum read one come here help me so you dont become scum read no more"

I swear after nacho's list runs out or we end up hitting town I am fucking going for you m8

p-edit : Thank you

[wgeurts]

Nacho's wrong on ICE.
The person we are now lynching just hammered twice on scum and town.

I'll vote kagami, however if she flips town I'm rebuilding the town bloc. GreyICE will be in it, along with Mollie and hopefully ABR/metal.

Nacho said if kagami flipped town to do this, I'm now going to put this into action.
She said if kagami's town to shred the bloc, she knew this. I do believe she said to put ICE it if this happened.
VOTE: Kagami
ZZZX, if you're scum you're digging your own grave.

[ZZZX]

Nacho's wrong on ICE.
The person we are now lynching just hammered twice on scum and town.

I'll vote kagami, however if she flips town I'm rebuilding the town bloc. GreyICE will be in it, along with Mollie and hopefully ABR/metal.

Nacho said if kagami flipped town to do this, I'm now going to put this into action.
She said if kagami's town to shred the bloc, she knew this. I do believe she said to put ICE it if this happened.
VOTE: Kagami
ZZZX, if you're scum you're digging your own grave.

Nacho said clearly: if we lynch scum keep going. if we lynch town give hte vote to metal.

I dont know if kagami is scum or not. I scum read kagami but even if kagami flips town it means nothing frankly. i promised to follow nacho and that is what I will be doing.

Nacho never said to break the town blok either

[ZZZX]

I'll vote kagami, however if she flips town I'm rebuilding the town bloc. GreyICE will be in it, along with Mollie and hopefully ABR/metal.

and WHO the FUCK are you to rebuild the town bloc?

Only town can do that m8. If metal came and rebuilt it I would understand. But you? half the game scum reads you and the other half has you as null-leaning town.

[ZZZX]

frankly the way we are going is the correct way. no need to start changing things after we just need a single scum lynch to win here.

[wgeurts]

I'm wrong about my nacho statement, I'll follow nacho.
But if kagami flips town.
Shit's gonna get real.
Nacho admitted that if kagami would flip town her view was wrong:

i believe kagami-town would mean my picture of the gamestate would be fundamentally wrong, and i find her capable enough of turning the game around if momentum can be built in trusting her final reads list on a green flip. i don't think she'd be listened to after she died with what she's put in thread so far, and i wanted to emphasize that. i still don't find the chance of Kagami-town to be particularly high. i still think it's important to do things just in case i'm wrong, especially in a game like this.

I'm trusting you on this ZZZX, if kagami flips scum I'll apologise.
However if she doesn't, somethings wrong.
Nacho's then wrong.
And we need to rethink.

[wgeurts]

We are lynching kagami today.
I'll base all my thoughts off what she flips.
And I'll lynch the scum in the town bloc I'm very paranoid there is.

[ZZZX]

I'm wrong about my nacho statement, I'll follow nacho.
But if kagami flips town.
Shit's gonna get real.
Nacho admitted that if kagami would flip town her view was wrong:

i believe kagami-town would mean my picture of the gamestate would be fundamentally wrong, and i find her capable enough of turning the game around if momentum can be built in trusting her final reads list on a green flip. i don't think she'd be listened to after she died with what she's put in thread so far, and i wanted to emphasize that. i still don't find the chance of Kagami-town to be particularly high. i still think it's important to do things just in case i'm wrong, especially in a game like this.

I'm trusting you on this ZZZX, if kagami flips scum I'll apologise.
However if she doesn't, somethings wrong.
Nacho's then wrong.
And we need to rethink.

and just after that he said that if he was wrong in any part of hte read list includes this then metal takes control of the vote

[ZZZX]

We are lynching kagami today.
I'll base all my thoughts off what she flips.
And I'll lynch the scum in the town bloc I'm very paranoid there is.

Frankly the town blok is the town blok for 2 reasons:

1- Its made of town (duh)

2- You dont just random try to lynch anyone of the bloc without great reason to cause that. frankly you gave no reason. even if all what you are saying is right there are still 4 people at least who are more "lynch worthy" than the "image" you have for me.

[wgeurts]

If kagami's scum.
ZZZX/Metal/ABR my faith is restored.
If she doesn't, the town bloc isn't correct.

I'll personally shred it down and find the actual town in it, probably ABR and Metal.

Ooba and Mollie, I want you on this wagon.

[ZZZX]

If kagami's scum.
ZZZX/Metal/ABR my faith is restored.
If she doesn't, the town bloc isn't correct.

I'll personally shred it down and find the actual town in it, probably ABR and Metal.

Ooba and Mollie, I want you on this wagon.

how about you start and build a fucking case on me that isnt about kagami? I fucking dare you m8.

[wgeurts]

Haha, ZZZX
If you are town.
You should see that Kagami flipping town means there's something wrong.
I have my reasons, however I'm going to wait and see what kagami flips before giving them.
ICE/Mollie/Ooba
Get on this wagon.

[ZZZX]

I have been scum read- at 3 levels. by 3 differant people. - ABR showed legit reason. Ooba felt weird but i still liked going against the flaw. then you come and just break everything everyone know with your own ideals without even explaining to others and the only thing you said is "Ice and mollie you know"

rly

also why does it mean something is wrong btw? I dont get it.

[ZZZX]

Explain to me as if I am a 12 yo child

[wgeurts]

ZZZX, I'm town reading you.
However after sotty flipped I hard town read kagami wrongly, now I realised this and am waiting for a flip.
I feared you were setting up to lynch kagami as scum, I think one of the town bloc is scum if kagami is town.
I've already realised my fault and am waiting for kagami to flip. If she flips scum all my suspicions are wrong.

Nacho is right in that we should wait for a town flip before deviating.

And as I've already said, I may be completely wrong.

[wgeurts]

ZZZX, if you are town like I think.
Can't you see the problem of kagami flipping town?
Seriously think.
I want to work with you if you are what you say.

[wgeurts]

Even Nacho saw it as I showed:

i believe kagami-town would mean my picture of the gamestate would be fundamentally wrong, and i find her capable enough of turning the game around if momentum can be built in trusting her final reads list on a green flip. i don't think she'd be listened to after she died with what she's put in thread so far, and i wanted to emphasize that. i still don't find the chance of Kagami-town to be particularly high. i still think it's important to do things just in case i'm wrong, especially in a game like this.

I'm not going to judge however before we're certain of her alignment. I may be fully wrong.

One thing hasn't changed, mollie and ICE need to get on this wagon.

[ZZZX]

ZZZX, I'm town reading you.
However after sotty flipped I hard town read kagami wrongly, now I realised this and am waiting for a flip.
I feared you were setting up to lynch kagami as scum, I think one of the town bloc is scum if kagami is town.
I've already realised my fault and am waiting for kagami to flip. If she flips scum all my suspicions are wrong.

Nacho is right in that we should wait for a town flip before deviating.

And as I've already said, I may be completely wrong.

does town reading me = voting me instead of voting for who the conf town said about?

question 2: the kagami lynch is already set without me saying anytihng. I say what i have in mind because i am town and i have nothing to fear. Dont you think that my talking did nothing
at all?

[ZZZX]

Even Nacho saw it as I showed:

i believe kagami-town would mean my picture of the gamestate would be fundamentally wrong, and i find her capable enough of turning the game around if momentum can be built in trusting her final reads list on a green flip. i don't think she'd be listened to after she died with what she's put in thread so far, and i wanted to emphasize that. i still don't find the chance of Kagami-town to be particularly high. i still think it's important to do things just in case i'm wrong, especially in a game like this.

I'm not going to judge however before we're certain of her alignment. I may be fully wrong.

One thing hasn't changed, mollie and ICE need to get on this wagon.

even if nacho is the god of scum hunting he can do mistakes too.

but so far he is right. and even if he was wrong once it doesnt change anything imho

[GreyICE]

I swore.

vote: kagami

[Metal Sonic]

i want to see kagami self hammer