We Didn't Playtest This | Game over, everyone loses

[Drixx]

Drixx, I am not engaging anything you say until you are in a better state or one week. I had an accident that I still think outed me as scum. I am betternow, but that's a terrible way to be lynched.

The prior 3rd person stuff and trolling the thread was intentional. It had nothing to do with any meds, and the reason I take meds is a spinal injury that's decades in the past. Most days my meds don't really impact me very much, but once or twice a week they do have a cognitive impact. I can't ever really predict when they will just take away the pain and muscle spasms and leave my mind completely untouched and when they'll make me "high" (for lack of a better term). Today they seem to be giving me a little bit of cobwebs in the attic, if you will.

In any case, I re-engaged with the game on a serious level quite some time ago, and I won't be doing any more 3rd person or trolling. Feel free to carry on and leave it in the past where it belongs. The only people who benefit from making that mess between us come up as an issue again are scum. So long as you and I leave it alone, then anyone who picks at it like a proverbial scab should be scrutinized heavily. I'm pretty sure that my contribution and my logical posts since I re-engaged, as well as a werewolf SK flipping should make it a lot easier to believe that I'm town and claimed honestly than it was before.

[God of Power Outlets]

In any case, I re-engaged with the game on a serious level quite some time ago, and I won't be doing any more 3rd person or trolling. Feel free to carry on and leave it in the past where it belongs. The only people who benefit from making that mess between us come up as an issue again are scum. So long as you and I leave it alone, then anyone who picks at it like a proverbial scab should be scrutinized heavily. I'm pretty sure that my contribution and my logical posts since I re-engaged, as well as a werewolf SK flipping should make it a lot easier to believe that I'm town and claimed honestly than it was before.

did i accidentally stumble onto the scum PT or are you guys posting in the wrong thread

Drixx, I am not engaging anything you say until you are in a better state or one week. I had an accident that I still think outed me as scum. I am betternow, but that's a terrible way to be lynched.

[deathfisaro]

Now remembering the fuss between Drixx and people.
Didn't Om go after you D1? Now I think about it, Om also had a sixth sense to try to lynch a werewolf BP first thing in the morning D1.

[Drixx]

Death, supposing arguendo that you are right and werewolf is SK, why is SK immunity a town role?

Well, I'm assuming that Elusive was an SK, but it's possible that she wasn't alone and there could be another werewolf. We can't know for sure. Assuming she was the SK, then IC an only speculate. I know for sure I'm town. I know for sure I'm immune to being killed by werewolves. Since the SK wins by killing off the entire town and the entire mafia, then the best reason I can think of for my role to exist is as a balance measure, requiring the SK to get a specific lynch to happen and not just figure out a way to get trusted and silently kill off smartly at night.

Gut off the wall read again, BB and Narnian are scum and Narninan did redirect off of BB.

I could see Narninian as scum. The role kind of makes sense in multiball. How do you explain night skip as a scum ability though?

[Titus]

Death,

supposing arguendo that you are right and werewolf is SK

, why is SK immunity a town role?

Wait... It just occured to me that it seems like you've completely missed D4. This is D5. Things happened yesterday.
I thought you were trolling but I think it's possible that you just mistook D5 as the day after last night which was N3, not N4.

N4, even if skipped should still exist.


@Drixx, I drew a very similar ability as scum.

[Oranje Crush]

This has got to be the best scumslip ever.
VOTE: Titus
#ScumTeamSlipWagon

[Oranje Crush]

Oh wait nvm
I suck
UNVOTE:

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

You have a serious bias. There were two people involved in that fight day 2, and I didn't start it

The point wasn't about who started it, or ended it. THe point was that the entire event most likely left people in this game (myself included) with bad tastes that may or may not be gone by now.

Do I think you're scum right now? No. Do I think you may still be scum? Yes. Do I think that what happened D2 and what you did after that is still coloring my judgment regarding you, whether good or bad? Yes. Do I think that it's possible, if not likely that others still alive are biased in a similar way? Yes. That is my point.

You seem to think that I should somehow just take whatever abuse any random person wants to heap on me and just eat that shit sandwich with a smile

Did I mention that? At all?

No ... you wouldn't ... because me talking in the 3rd person for a few days was enough to make you whinge about me every chance you get.

The problem wasn't you talking in 3rd person in and of itself. THe problem was that you used that as an excuse to cop out of the game almost entirely in what looked to me (and honestly still looks to me) like a hissy fit because you thought no one was believing you.

You are such a hypocrite telling me to leave it behind and get back into the game, and here you are, dragging that shit back up again to whinge about it.

Considering I only mentioned it as a thing that happened and how it has likely affected my read on you, and

didn't actually condemn either of you for the fact that it happened nor did anything else

, how is it hypocritical? Am I supposed to pretend that part of D2 never happened when it obviously did and that it never affected my read on you or Titus when it obviously has?

You're still the one blowing shit out of proportion. Again, I mentioned D2 solely as a thing that happened during this game and that, for better or worse, has affected my read. Neither you, Titus, nor I should be persecuted for doing such, and trying to call me a hypocrite because I did speaks more to you than to me.

Why do you keep talking about a confirmed dead townie as potential scum? I notice that I'm confused.

Because the flip happened while I was typing that post...?

Did you not notice the p-edit?

Why do you want BRantz to use up his get out of lynch free cards today? Do you want the WiFoM of whether to target him with your nuke from orbit to be gone? Would really suck for your team if he holds that last one and outguesses you huh?

*sigh* I explained this already.

And if Elusive wasn't blowing smoke up our collective tailpipes about vengeful, it would be very good if she targeted me so the shot would just fizzle on my Silver Lining.

Actually, if Elusive wants town to win (which I'm only assuming because she was requesting to be leashed, I could be completely wrong), trying to get rid of other non-town factions is a good shot. Is it possible she may hit town instead? Yeah, but I also think that the lynchpool I mentioned would also help put things in perspective and clear up some muddy reads.

BC - reflexive JK is still a very powerful scum role to have in this game. Can't be cleared by cop, can't be expected to be killed by scums, only way to check is a day lynch or elusive's shot (I don't think vengeful during the day would be reflexive JK'd). If vonflare was town I wouldn't put BC but that's not the case so...

Are you forgetting the multiple times I've mentioned that I CAN be investigated?

However, I do like your list there, even if I disagree with parts of it.

BRantz - didn't remove himself from the game the night TVL went down to 1 player. Coincidence? D1 removal was voluntary and proactive, D2 removal was upon request IIRC, but if he is TVL he couldn't have removed himself from the game D3 due to Vyse's death overnight and vonflare lynch. If he uses the power today and one kill flavour is missing, likely TVL. If we still see 2 kill flavours, could still be Berlin. Would like to request removal today and observe tomorrow.

Hey, hey, Drixx. Death mentioned Brantz should remove himself. Gonna suspect him to? I actually like his reasoning behind it, too.

Bulba, do you trust me? I would like to try something.

Depends on what that something is.

And Deathfisaro joins the Commonwealth on the suspect list for pushing for BRantz to use up his last escape shot based upon an off chance moonlogic reason.

Anyone else?

Well, at least you didn't disappoint me.

@death I agree with you on a lot of things... But BC is not lynchable yet. I'd rather deal with him at M/Lylo so that we can play off his ability as essentially a doctor.

There isn't a good way to selectively JK players who used a night action on you, and yet BC said they hinted that multiple reflexive JKs happening in the same night is not possible.
(He said it when I brought up the idea of active power roles mass-targeting BC every night and having a jail party.)
I'm thinking the ability could be shot-limited and those shots are already up.

It's unlimited in usage, but limited in scope. I can only JK one person per night.

@ChriVi
And supposed BRantz's town, removing himself in situations like LyLo 3T v 2S,
it still takes 3 to lynch after removal and yet there's 2T and 2S. TownBRantz's removal in LyLo guarantees town loss, as the best town can do is no lynch during the day and losing at night and the worst is losing during the day outright.

Isn't that a reason to have him use it up?

Now remembering the fuss between Drixx and people.
Didn't Om go after you D1? Now I think about it, Om also had a sixth sense to try to lynch a werewolf BP first thing in the morning D1.

Yes and maybe. I just recall him laying out that terrible case on Drixx.

P-EDIT: That's part of why I still have Narn as a lynch target. It's not likely, but still plausible enough to not be discounted.

Also, you guys should just assume that every post is Ivy unless it specifically says otherwise (or until I get notified by my other heads that they're back in the game <_<)

P-EDIT2: What, Bro?

[Titus]

@TPTG, Neither. I still think Drixx is scum but I am not Open 569ing him. I was scum there and thought Sakura was scumreading me based on my replies not being fast enough after a car accident I was in. Given my thoughts o n Drixx scum, I am havkng a little compassio n for the guy behind the keyboard.

@Bulba, i cannot tell you.

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

@Bulba, i cannot tell you.

Then I'm not very apt to let you do what you want. You should get on that VCA if you haven't already.

[Plotinus]

@death I agree with you on a lot of things... But BC is not lynchable yet. I'd rather deal with him at M/Lylo so that we can play off his ability as essentially a doctor.

There isn't a good way to selectively JK players who used a night action on you, and yet BC said they hinted that multiple reflexive JKs happening in the same night is not possible.
(He said it when I brought up the idea of active power roles mass-targeting BC every night and having a jail party.)
I'm thinking the ability could be shot-limited and those shots are already up.

It's unlimited in usage, but limited in scope. I can only JK one person per night.

Do you get to choose or is it first come first serve? So, if we want to confirm you we need two cops to target you in one night?

[Drixx]

@TPTG - I assume Titus is referring to some other game where something happened to her (an accident apparently) and she feels like the aftereffects caused her to slip and out herself and she got lynched and feels like it sucks for RL things to get you lynched. That was in reply to me saying my meds were making me kinda woozy, I think.

@Ivy - Fair enough. Shake and make up? I apologize for being sensitive to certain things. My introduction to this site wasn't pleasant, and even in my most recently completed game, there was a player who had been treated horrifically by other players on this site, and a lot of the fallout from that bled into that game. I think probably those things make me a little sensitive to more established players when I get a "You're new and haven't earned the right to talk to me" vibe out of people. It's also likely that I'm seeing that attitude where it isn't actually present as a result of the aforementioned unpleasantness. So again, I apologize. I would prefer, as I said earlier, to be friendly with all and enemies with none.


The LYLO argument is a good reason to want BRantz to be out of his claimed number of shots before we get there. If he's town, obviously he wouldn't use that ability in a LYLO situation as it would be an instant loss. If he's scum then making it to LYLO with that ability left is an instant win condition. That seems like a really impossible to balance role to give to scum, which is at least weak evidence that he's probably town. I suppose the best way to play it safe is to ask BRantz to use the ability in the next couple days, whenever he feels it's best to use it. If he doesn't use it by say ... Day Seven, he should probably be forced to use it by being put at L-1 with intent to hammer. It has no utility as a town ability in LYLO and even if it seems unlikely logically to be a scum role, it probably cannot be allowed into the end game just in case.

I stand corrected.

[Oranje Crush]

So I can't figure out what the purpose of Brantz's role would be as a town role. It kind of... doesn't do anything for town.

VOTE: p5 I have no idea what scum slip wgeurts thinks exists but I'm pretty confident about p5 being scum here.

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

Do you get to choose or is it first come first serve? So, if we want to confirm you we need two cops to target you in one night?

Why would I get a choice in who I protect?

@Ivy - Fair enough. Shake and make up? I apologize for being sensitive to certain things. My introduction to this site wasn't pleasant, and even in my most recently completed game, there was a player who had been treated horrifically by other players on this site, and a lot of the fallout from that bled into that game. I think probably those things make me a little sensitive to more established players when I get a "You're new and haven't earned the right to talk to me" vibe out of people. It's also likely that I'm seeing that attitude where it isn't actually present as a result of the aforementioned unpleasantness. So again, I apologize. I would prefer, as I said earlier, to be friendly with all and enemies with none.

Fine. All I ask is that you use a bit more analysis to determine the context and content of it. If someone brings it up to specifically condemn you or something, then okay, but plz don't get mad at someone if they do what I did and just note that it was a thing. That's all.

P-EDIT: It's not a bad idea. Maybe it'll get him to post.

Vote: Peregrine

[deathfisaro]

BC - reflexive JK is still a very powerful scum role to have in this game. Can't be cleared by cop, can't be expected to be killed by scums, only way to check is a day lynch or elusive's shot (I don't think vengeful during the day would be reflexive JK'd). If vonflare was town I wouldn't put BC but that's not the case so...

Are you forgetting the multiple times I've mentioned that I CAN be investigated?

There was no reason to not tell the town investigatives (House or Boon) exactly how to clear you, instead of skating around and making them potentially waste their actions. Even if you tell us how, it's about 3 days too late.

BRantz - didn't remove himself from the game the night TVL went down to 1 player. Coincidence? D1 removal was voluntary and proactive, D2 removal was upon request IIRC, but if he is TVL he couldn't have removed himself from the game D3 due to Vyse's death overnight and vonflare lynch. If he uses the power today and one kill flavour is missing, likely TVL. If we still see 2 kill flavours, could still be Berlin. Would like to request removal today and observe tomorrow.

Hey, hey, Drixx. Death mentioned Brantz should remove himself. Gonna suspect him to? I actually like his reasoning behind it, too.

@ChriVi
And supposed BRantz's town, removing himself in situations like LyLo 3T v 2S,
it still takes 3 to lynch after removal and yet there's 2T and 2S. TownBRantz's removal in LyLo guarantees town loss, as the best town can do is no lynch during the day and losing at night and the worst is losing during the day outright.

Isn't that a reason to have him use it up?

No need to force it TODAY. Since it's clear you didn't delay kill him N3.

[deathfisaro]

The LYLO argument is a good reason to want BRantz to be out of his claimed number of shots before we get there. If he's town, obviously he wouldn't use that ability in a LYLO situation as it would be an instant loss.

If he's scum then making it to LYLO with that ability left is an instant win condition.

That seems like a really impossible to balance role to give to scum, which is at least weak evidence that he's probably town. I suppose the best way to play it safe is to ask BRantz to use the ability in the next couple days, whenever he feels it's best to use it. If he doesn't use it by say ... Day Seven, he should probably be forced to use it by being put at L-1 with intent to hammer. It has no utility as a town ability in LYLO and even if it seems unlikely logically to be a scum role, it probably cannot be allowed into the end game just in case.

I stand corrected.

No.
3T v 2S (BRantz is here)
BRantz removes himself.
It takes 3 to lynch, 3T v 1S.
No guaranteed way of avoiding lynch or achieving no lynch. In fact, not removing himself and just coordinating 2 votes on a single vote wagon is an easier way of winning LyLo.

It's only immediate win in 2T v BRantz scenario. Removes himself, no lynch is guaranteed, NK then win.

No reason to force usage because of LyLo scenarios, if he's town he won't use it even with shots left (because we just explained to him why he shouldn't), if he's scum he won't use it because that makes winning harder.
We should force usage later than today to confirm that he's not the last TVL. I don't see any other significance of him using his power otherwise.

[Plotinus]

@Oranje If p5 is peregrinev then I agree that their ISO is 90% prodge 10% barely explained reads (that would take considerable digging for me to figure out if they had a basis in anything or not, which I can try to do, though I'm more curious about the people that are actually playing). I saw that they wrote they're trying to find a new mafia/reallife balance and that's great but I think a better way to go about that is replacing out and focusing on one game at a time, no?

@Bulba: I don't know, but I'm going to interpret that as a no. I was just thinking a in-real-life jailkeeper would get to make that kind of choice, and if you did then probably there would be some strategy to how you did the picking which probably wouldn't be any of my business but I was curious anyway.

Vote: Peregrinev

[deathfisaro]

Do you get to choose or is it first come first serve? So, if we want to confirm you we need two cops to target you in one night?

Why would I get a choice in who I protect?

See? You're not telling us how you can be investigated and be confirmed town because you are not telling us how investigatives could avoid the RB part of the JK.
The only reason you're not telling is because you don't want scums to figure out a way to kill you, meaning your play is geared towards your own survival.

And some people say survivalist mindset is alignment indicative... It'd be nice if I could figure out which alignment has that mindset... Hm...

[deathfisaro]

Which one is more likely scum?
1) Continued anti-town-investigatives play
2) Continued prodge and fluff

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

Do you get to choose or is it first come first serve? So, if we want to confirm you we need two cops to target you in one night?

Why would I get a choice in who I protect?

See? You're not telling us how you can be investigated and be confirmed town because you are not telling us how investigatives could avoid the RB part of the JK.
The only reason you're not telling is because you don't want scums to figure out a way to kill you, meaning your play is geared towards your own survival.

And some people say survivalist mindset is alignment indicative... It'd be nice if I could figure out which alignment has that mindset... Hm...

You're not reading my posts. Like, I already

explicitly

said how many people I can JK.

If you weren't likely town from Elusive's death I'd re-vote you.

[deathfisaro]

@Oranje Crush

OC - what were you so afraid of that you had to constantly commute? There were so many likely NK candidates like investigative claims. Who would want to shoot a claimed commuter over claimed investigatives? Questionable. Or did you secretly un-amenisiac'd yourself?

Was there a night you didn't commute?
Did you un-amnesiac yourself as a result?
Why are you afraid of NKs that you have to keep commuting?
Why hide the information if you're town?

[Narninian]

I don't think pushing bulbasaur for more info is really a pro-town mindset angle, unless you're seriously considering them for a lynch.

The ability can be a powerful tool for town at night. The doctor can target bulbasuar, I can redirect onto bulbasuar. We might not, but we might so mafia won't have any easy night choices.

[Titus]

Elusive's Death means he is not likely werewolf. It says nothing about mafia.

[God of Power Outlets]

Elusive's Death means he is not likely werewolf. It says nothing about mafia.

elusive's death means that he is 100% confirmed werewolf

[deathfisaro]

I don't think pushing bulbasaur for more info is really a pro-town mindset angle, unless you're seriously considering them for a lynch.

The ability can be a powerful tool for town at night. The doctor can target bulbasuar, I can redirect onto bulbasuar. We might not, but we might so mafia won't have any easy night choices.

So you're saying the reason he's been hiding exactly how the JK target is chosen is that they foresaw this potential utility and molded all of their claims, crumbs, and plays around it?

Boon can get off like 2-3 more investigations before he dies because you and ChriVi exist, at that point the worst case scenario is having like 5-6 conftowns, and the best case scenario is outing all the scums.
BC's role is a hindrance when it comes to identifying his alignment. It takes town coordination to conftown him, it takes scum coordination for a mod flip as a result of NK. Neither is happening without handing the opposite alignment the game.
Targeting BC to save oneself seems to be the most passive approach to the remainder of the game.